Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Bhurki]

Japan is selling 100+ F-15 Js to buy F-35 Bs. I think we should buy them with quality assured, and the best part is if bought; we then have 15 to 20 years to perfect the AMCA and maybe buy SU-57s also. As a US ally and having a Boeing facility for servicing, we wont have a problem in the service life and buying weapons specific for the fleet if bought. The chief of the Boeing company India division, President - Mr. Pratyush Kumar will now lead the F-15 program in the states. So they are very serious about the fleet replenishment of the Indian Air Force.

They are only serious about the money they'll make.
Furthermore, IAF is satisfied with the number of heavy airframes it already has, stating so when writing to MoD that they don't want anymore MKI squadrons. They are looking for around 18 t mtow aircraft.or MMRCA.
Operational costs are a huge dealbreaker while inducting a new aircraft. MkI costs $12k/hr, F15 $24k/hr , Gripen $6k/hr .
Also it needs to be a single pilot aircraft

 

[WARREN SS]

So we're going for Sweeds Gripen?
Multi Role Fighter Aircraft: Saab to hold meetings with Indian firms for making Gripen E aircraft https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...ng-gripen-e-aircraft/articleshow/71095650.cms

Gripen Is Nice Aircraft And Sweden Is Good on Tot front
But in My Mind Rafale is best choice Even if We have to Pay 20 billion for TOT 114+36 = 150 Rafale's + 300 Su-30 MKI Will Enough Killer combination Front Two front war

Will Make American Happy by granting them 57 FA-18 for Vikrant AC In Future Paves our way for F-35C in our Nuclear powered Carrier

 

[Willy3]

So we're going for Sweeds Gripen?
Multi Role Fighter Aircraft: Saab to hold meetings with Indian firms for making Gripen E aircraft https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...ng-gripen-e-aircraft/articleshow/71095650.cms

In every six month these paid articles on GRIPEN came out most probably sponsored by SAAB....

SAAB probably have propoganda division superior to its technical one

 

[Bhurki]

So Netanyahu has cancelled his meeting with Modi, and so the Elta systems to be bought for new couple of AWACS has been postponed yet again.
IAF needs these systems urgently to augment the already existing AEW force.
I hope there's a separate security bilateral meeting to procure these systems and not wait for the political agendas of PMs to meet.

 

[Jaguar_1432]

The DRDO handed over the second of three indeginously designed Netra AEW&C systems to the IAF on 11 September to augument the service's network centric capabilities. The system was delivered to Bhatinda Air Force in Punjab State. Mounted on a Brazillian-made Embraer EBM-145 by the DRDO's Center for Airborne Systems (CABS) in Bangalore, the Netra AEW&C system probides 240-degree coverage and surveillance ranges between 250 km and 375 km. The first Netra system was delivered to the IAF at the 2017 Aero India show in Bangalore. Though at that time the DRDO stated, that the second such sustem would be delivered withing the same year, the DRDO sources explained that the handover was delayed by about two eyears following IAF demands for modifications and capability improvements in Netra. The DRDO officials said the Netra platform is capable of delivering a recognisable air surveillance picture of aerial threats via search, track-while-scan and priority track modes to provide airborne and ground-based assets their exact location for possible exploitation.

 

[WolfPack86]

Facing a funding crisis, IAF seeks Rs 40,000 crore to pursue modernisation plans.

 

[Bleh]

Facing a funding crisis, IAF seeks Rs 40,000 crore to pursue modernisation plans.

To give away more of taxpayer's money to foreigners?

So we're going for Sweeds Gripen?
Multi Role Fighter Aircraft: Saab to hold meetings with Indian firms for making Gripen E aircraft https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...ng-gripen-e-aircraft/articleshow/71095650.cms

Is me se thoda bohot ISRO, DRDO, ADA, ARDE, NAL, HAL, BEL, CVRDE ke budget me vi de dia karo... The whole R&D sector's engine is running on fumes!

 

[Bhurki]

A noob question -
Why are people saying the next batch of rafale ( if bought ) will be cheaper than current batch because it'll have amortized the cost of India-specific enhancements(ISE) from the older batch.
Does ISE mean 'development & integration' of these systems or the 'product value' that is attached to them?( the former isn't quantity variable while latter is)
Afaik, ISE includes RWR, enhanced jammer, cold start capability, doppler radar, HMD and a few other goodies.
Certainly if the next batch includes these instruments, we'll have to pay for them.
Where else are the cuts to deal price expected?

 

[DG7867]

A noob question -
Why are people saying the next batch of rafale ( if bought ) will be cheaper than current batch because it'll have amortized the cost of India-specific enhancements(ISE) from the older batch.
Does ISE mean 'development & integration' of these systems or the 'product value' that is attached to them?( the former isn't quantity variable while latter is)
Afaik, ISE includes RWR, enhanced jammer, cold start capability, doppler radar, HMD and a few other goodies.
Certainly if the next batch includes these instruments, we'll have to pay for them.
Where else are the cuts to deal price expected?

If I'm not wrong, the first tranche of Rafale deal included developmental costs of integration of specific enhancements, such as software & datalink upgrades, development of SOPs etc. In second tranche, these costs do not arise, which is why the deal is cheaper. People who know more about this feel free to correct/add to this.

 

[Bhurki]

Ok, so i found some of them ISE.
Still, the non iterative costs seem to be a small fraction of whats contracted as ISE.
It doesn't seem the deal price would see as massive a cut as is been propogated by a lot of people.

1) Upgraded Sigma 95N INS: A Hybrid inertial navigation/GPS system used on the Dassault Rafale fighter jets will now support Indian developed Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System (IRNSS ) also called as NAVIC which provides accurate real-time positioning and timing services for India and a region extending 1,500 km around it.

2) Upgraded RBE-2 AESA-MMR: RBE2 AESA radar developed by Thales will now feature Airborne weather radar which will come in handy to predict more timely and accurate weather conditions.

3) Enhanced OBOGS: Rafale fighter jet comes fitted with an onboard oxygen generation system (OBOGS) which suppresses the need for liquid oxygen re-filling or ground support for oxygen production, but India has asked for Enhanced OBOGS system which will have enhanced capacity supporting additional filters.

4) Traffic Collision Avoidance System (TCAS): Thales developed Traffic Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) contains Air Traffic Surveillance Awareness capabilities like a Terrain Avoidance Warning System (TAWS) which will improve the level of awareness and comfort of the flight crew.

5) Tweaked M88 Engines: Rafale fighter jet which uses M88-4E engines will receive tweaks to its fuel starter so that engine can operate at optimum even at sub-zero high altitude air base of Indian air force.

6) IESI (Integrated Electronic Standby Instruments): Thales developed IESI will be installed to operate in a particular set of environmental conditions and features accurate low airspeed measurement to cope with the flight envelope while avoiding additional weight due to external air data computer.

7) Quad-Pack Ejectors: Rafale fighter jet will be getting French developed Quad-Pack Ejectors which can be used for low weight Stand-Off Weapon both of Indian and foreign origins.

8) X-Guard fiber-optic towed decoy system: India bound Rafale fighter jets will be getting X-Guard fibre-optic towed decoy system which is designed to counter air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles. Each aircraft carries two X-Guard towed decoy and can be released when the aircraft approaches a saturated area or when a threat is detected. The most suitable countermeasure is transmitted to the X-Guard by the aircraft’s electronic countermeasures system. The fiber-optic connection to the aircraft allows accurate jamming, says Rafael.

9) Tweaks to SPECTRA Electronic Warfare System: India specific threat libraries will be added and SPECTRA EW System will also feature Low- Medium and High band apertures to deal with low observable aircraft.

10) TARGO-II Helmet Mounted Display Systems Developed by ELBIT

11) Integration of LITENING G4 Target Acquisition Pod which are already used by Indian Air Force for its frontline fighter aircraft, including the Su-30 MKI, MiG-29

12) Integration of Rafael’s SPICE 1000 EO/GPS-guided munitions

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Indian Air Force (IAF) sources: IAF starts receiving the new version of the Spice 2000 bombs from Israel. The first batch of the new version of the bombs was delivered to India recently

 

[Bhurki]

Indian Air Force (IAF) sources: IAF starts receiving the new version of the Spice 2000 bombs from Israel. The first batch of the new version of the bombs was delivered to India recently

If the price of 300 crore for 100 units is correct, then they are straight ripping us off on what is essentially a cased Paveway unit. Hope this is the last batch we buy from foreign vendor, and produce a guidance unit based on DRDO's SaaW

 

[Deathstar]

If the price of 300 crore for 100 units is correct, then they are straight ripping us off on what is essentially a cased Paveway unit. Hope this is the last batch we buy from foreign vendor, and produce a guidance unit based on DRDO's SaaW

Each unit contains how many bombs???

 

[ezsasa]

So Netanyahu has cancelled his meeting with Modi, and so the Elta systems to be bought for new couple of AWACS has been postponed yet again.
IAF needs these systems urgently to augment the already existing AEW force.
I hope there's a separate security bilateral meeting to procure these systems and not wait for the political agendas of PMs to meet.

Israel has elections in 17 or 19th this month. I’d say elections are important for Netanyahu, isn’t it?

 

[Bhurki]

Israel has elections in 17 or 19th this month. I’d say elections are important for Netanyahu, isn’t it?

Obviously they are, and hence the need for a separate security channel for procurement.
MoD need not align its procurement schedule with russian, french and israeli elections.

 

[Bhurki]

Each unit contains how many bombs???

A spice unit is just a guidance kit with sensors that is strapped onto a bomb. The bomb itself can be a cluster unit with hundreds of sub munitions or a big 1000, 2000 lb general purpose dumb bomb.

 

[Deathstar]

A spice unit is just a guidance kit with sensors that is strapped onto a bomb. The bomb itself can be a cluster unit with hundreds of sub munitions or a big 1000, 2000 lb general purpose dumb bomb.

Oh thanx so we can install that kit on any kind of bomb???? If such is the case then its quite expensive 3crore each

 

[Bhurki]

Oh thanx so we can install that kit on any kind of bomb???? If such is the case then its quite expensive 3crore each

Well not any kind, but some specific kinds.
Spice is well suited to mk83, mk84 and their equivalent size bunker buster, cluster bombs.

 

[ezsasa]

Obviously they are, and hence the need for a separate security channel for procurement.
MoD need not align its procurement schedule with russian, french and israeli elections.

That’s why security treaties are signed between countries and we don’t have one with any country(I think). A treaty ensures continuity in relationships irrespective of political party in power.

And no, I am not advocating for a security treaty with Israel.

 

[Bhurki]

That’s why security treaties are signed between countries and we don’t have one with any country(I think). A treaty ensures continuity in relationships irrespective of political party in power.

And no, I am not advocating for a security treaty with Israel.

I know its OT but could you say why?
We do import majority of our sensors, EW, radar suite, missile systems from them.