This whole program has been doomed from the start. Even Darin III itself is stalled due to integration issues of the Elta radar and 2 sqds worth of planes are sitting in HAL with no solution in sight but no mention of that...instead blame Honeywell and play on public perception to hide their own failings.
Indian Air Force: News & Discussions
- Thread starter cobra commando
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Honeywell engine upgrade was definitely price prohibitive
They charged around $16 mil for engine & fitment (50-50). When IAF asked HAL to do the fitment for lower cost, Honeywell came back and said the engine alone will now cost $16 million. I am guessing HAL might have quoted $4-$6 mil for fitment....taking the engine upgrade cost to $20+ million!!!
If they don't intend to upgrade engines, then I guess the idea of buying/free-loading few squadrons of mothballed Jaguars from other countries will also be stalled!!
The issue is quite a bit more complicated than just Honeywell's engine pricing. The engines cost ard US$5M each + rolled in R&D cost lumpsum for 120 engines (for 60 Jags). The F125IN doesn't exist, it is a paper engine upgrade of the existing F124/125 family that Honeywell proposed as a customized solution for the IAF Jaguar. Hence once confirmed order is received, Honeywell will embark on an R&D and Certification program for which HAL was supposed to share the cost (as integrator) which is currently the point of contention as HAL is balking at that figure. (which is growing due to USD inflation and the inordinate delay since when the proposal was first floated)
There are many many other layers of intrigue and incompetence in this story which will require a very longer and frustrating post. As with all things HAL, the real story is an ugly and complicated image which cannot be judged on media articles alone.
There are many many other layers of intrigue and incompetence in this story which will require a very longer and frustrating post. As with all things HAL, the real story is an ugly and complicated image which cannot be judged on media articles alone.
Here's Shukla's article on the subject.
I was off from the total engine-upgrade price by $10 million....it appears the cost of re-engining a single Jaguar is $30 million!!!!
(My bad! I didn't calculate for "two" engines
)
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Please don't quote that sold off charlatan. Nothing he writes has any basis in reality. Anyway, you will see a pattern of articles being written in press over the next few weeks by usual suspects (started with Pubby man last week) concerning various issues that HAL and other aerospace PSU are facing (but are all somehow not their fault)
Like I said in previous posts in this and Rafale and Kaveri threads, there is a larger agenda at work due to other developments going on in background, PSU's are trying to swing public perception into their camp in preparation.
I won't say more, but the matter will become clear in a couple of months
Agreed.
Just to put things in perspective Mirage 2000 upgrade (without new engines) is $45+ million.............that is ongoing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
binayak95
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This "agenda" became crystal clear with that BS article about advanced APFSDS from OFB for T90s.
IndianHawk
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Some 52 jaguar are made between 2003-2008.
They will serve till 2040-45. The plan was to upgrade 80 jaguar with rest being retired.
Honeywell engine is cost prohibitive. But htfe 25 is doing well and it's afterburner version can be an apt replacement for jaguar engine.
Money should rather be put in fast tracking htfe 25 so it could upgrade 52 latest jaguars .
Another squadron of lca and MKI can fill the gap created by early retirement of rest of jaguar fleet.
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They will serve till 2040-45. The plan was to upgrade 80 jaguar with rest being retired.
Honeywell engine is cost prohibitive. But htfe 25 is doing well and it's afterburner version can be an apt replacement for jaguar engine.
Money should rather be put in fast tracking htfe 25 so it could upgrade 52 latest jaguars .
Another squadron of lca and MKI can fill the gap created by early retirement of rest of jaguar fleet.
Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk
IndianHawk
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https://idrw.org/how-htfe-40-could-have-saved-jaguar-strike-aircrafts/
120 Jaguars which are currently powered by twin Rolls-Royce Adour Mk 821 engines, which are now considered under-powered due to considerable upgrades which Jaguar fleet has gone through over the last couple of years which now has started to affect its performance in hot and humid conditions
HAL instead of HTFE-25 had worked on HTFE-40 which was to develop a 40 kN thurst engine it could have been used on the entire Jaguar fleet. According to HAL’s own admission, HTFE-25 core has growth potential of only 15-20% which means at best it can be uprated till 30kN thrust which again is not sufficient to power Jaguars but deep modifications to the core can be initiated to develop a 40kN class engine which in short turn around time if the air force and HAL was serious about the project.
Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk
120 Jaguars which are currently powered by twin Rolls-Royce Adour Mk 821 engines, which are now considered under-powered due to considerable upgrades which Jaguar fleet has gone through over the last couple of years which now has started to affect its performance in hot and humid conditions
HAL instead of HTFE-25 had worked on HTFE-40 which was to develop a 40 kN thurst engine it could have been used on the entire Jaguar fleet. According to HAL’s own admission, HTFE-25 core has growth potential of only 15-20% which means at best it can be uprated till 30kN thrust which again is not sufficient to power Jaguars but deep modifications to the core can be initiated to develop a 40kN class engine which in short turn around time if the air force and HAL was serious about the project.
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Filtercoffee
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'Extra extra read all about it!' Jaguars are depressed thinking about a new set of legs. Look the thing is that none of the top brass has an inclination of ruining a beautiful design like the Jaguar so please refrain from trying. Please be a factual writer. The name of the game is Indian Air Force, and not giving an enemy upper hands. So please refrain from writing up Indian assets as clowns that are dumbfounded like the 'crew' that is or was in charge. Jai Hind!
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Bhai it's free of cost.........
As I know those are twin seater variant s ...
For training.....
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Also we can negotiate with Malaysia for mig29
May be iaf want s a long term solution...
And it was in discussion in brf that ....thoi th the squardon strength is low...but still we can fight...(still we have some operational mig21 eariear variant s,mig27 s too)
Otherwise iaf can go for g2g deal for mig29 ,rafale and for f16 too .. for stop gap solution.
Also once s400 delivery starts it will be also help a lot ,thou th s400 is for defence not for offence)
Anathema
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Is this a legit news ? No news in mainstream.
Anathema
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No i think IAF is looking at long term solution. They are absolutely enamored by Rafale. So you can implicitly make out they are making a push for more of those. If they were to go after second hand M2Ks then case for Rafale becomes weak
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Ya legit news......it was in previous reports..................
https://theprint.in/india/governanc...ll-aircraft-from-french-graveyard/136118/amp/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.trib...r-frames-for-ageing-iaf-fleet-soon/666480/amp
