Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Bhadra]

If it weights 450 kg. Even lca can carry 6 with 2*r73 CCM and center line drop tank.
So does mirage and so does mig29upg.

ALH weaponised version Rudra is in service.
Lch is under lsp production.

Attack aircrafts have been using rocket pods and cluster bombs since eternity. Idea is not to just blow up the tank but also to destroy tank formation and disturb whatever planning the enemy had.

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My worry is MPATGM which is the foundation of ATk weaponry. Required for Infantry, mechanised infantry, motorised battalions, PARA battalions, SF teams, Recce and Support, BSF, Camal troops, amphibious forces, airborne forces, mountain forces, high altitude forces - you name it and it is required by them.

 

[IndianHawk]

My worry is MPATGM which is the foundation of ATk weaponry. Required for Infantry, mechanised infantry, motorised battalions, PARA battalions, SF teams, Recce and Support, BSF, Camal troops, amphibious forces, airborne forces, mountain forces, high altitude forces - you name it and it is required by them.

Army stopped import because it trusted DRDO to deliver mpatgm within 4 years. Going by Modi govt pro active support I think they will deliver.

They delivered fucking ASAT within 18 months when govt provided full support and funds for once.
Chill out brother. Also look at my reply on Apache thread about links I found about nag price .

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[Bhadra]

Army stopped import because it trusted DRDO to deliver mpatgm within 4 years. Going by Modi govt pro active support I think they will deliver.

They delivered fucking ASAT within 18 months when govt provided full support and funds for once.
Chill out brother. Also look at my reply on Apache thread about links I found about nag price .

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Is ASAT a guarantee for success of MPATGM ? In ATk missile technology DRDO has nothing to lift from ISRO, So let us see. I hope it reaches some shape before you retire.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Is ASAT a guarantee for success of MPATGM ? In ATk missile technology DRDO has nothing to lift from ISRO, So let us see. I hope it reaches some shape before you retire.

ASAT has little to do with ISRO. Only target satellite had to.

Once again, Indian R&D projects are brutally underfunded and bear fruitful results in stipulated time frame when properly funded. Technologies of PSUs like DRDO & ISRO have been interchangeable for decades.
Job of DRDO is far more diversified and difficult meanwhile.

 

[Bhadra]

ASAT has little to do with ISRO. Only target satellite had to.

Once again, Indian R&D projects are brutally underfunded and bear fruitful results in stipulated time frame when properly funded. Technologies of PSUs like DRDO & ISRO have been interchangeable for decades.
Job of DRDO is far more diversified and difficult meanwhile.

Except for lifted up missile technology from ISRO, tell me a field where DRDO made a dent? Funding is almost of equal level in ISRO and DRDO. I really wonder at the differences. In spite of vast captive market and resource base available for DRDO, they have not lifted the spirit of India - be it aviation, electronics, communications, sensors, optronics, nano technology or bio-technology, there is nothing great to write home.

Look at the sordid INSAS drama, MPATGM, Arjun, SP Guns, Small Arms, radars etc - there is nothing someone can look up to them.

The worst is - the negative, almost restrictive and denial regime effects it has had on modernisation of Armed Forces. DRDO has pushed the Armed forces backwards rather than helping them to remain in line with modern technology.

There is no dearth of funds from Indian standards but the quality of products do not even match Indian standards.

These are personal view, may be in ignorance or not well informed. I feel sad that people have stopped looking up to them. That is the most negative consequences.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Except for lifted up missile technology from ISRO, tell me a field where DRDO made a dent?

With due respect, you don't know anything.

Only street fanboys admire ISRO while bash DRDO without studying the relative position of both organizations compared to their foreign counterparts & kind of jobs.

 

[IndianHawk]

Is ASAT a guarantee for success of MPATGM ? In ATk missile technology DRDO has nothing to lift from ISRO, So let us see. I hope it reaches some shape before you retire.

ASAT came from k4 slbm and Agni. ASAT test shows how effective results are achieved swiftly when proper support and funding is there for DRDO.

You can keep being skeptical all you want.
Here is what I see =
300 nag with 25 carrier are already ordered at a very competitive prices of just 524 Cr.

Helina developed only because of nag program progress. Has been tested multiple time successfully.
Mpatgm is under development and will be ready within 3 years. Army has agreed to it.

SANT program is further evolution of same systems with range of 15-20 km with active radar homing. Already tested successfully in 2018. It matches anything out there on merit.

These are only possible because we persisted with indegenios efforts despite low funding/ lack of infra and repeated failures.

If we went your way and dismissed nag we would lose all these subsequent program and progress.

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[Bhadra]

With due respect, you don't know anything.

Only street fanboys admire ISRO while bash DRDO without studying the relative position of both organizations compared to their foreign counterparts & kind of jobs.

Chalo theek hai... I will try and learn the DRDO way... soldiers will also tell the govt that they will not go on attack because it is raining outside or because they do not have MPATGM..
That stage may come...

 

[Bhadra]

ASAT came from k4 slbm and Agni. ASAT test shows how effective results are achieved swiftly when proper support and funding is there for DRDO.

You can keep being skeptical all you want.
Here is what I see =
300 nag with 25 carrier are already ordered at a very competitive prices of just 524 Cr.

Helina developed only because of nag program progress. Has been tested multiple time successfully.
Mpatgm is under development and will be ready within 3 years. Army has agreed to it.

SANT program is further evolution of same systems with range of 15-20 km with active radar homing. Already tested successfully in 2018. It matches anything out there on merit.

These are only possible because we persisted with indegenios efforts despite low funding/ lack of infra and repeated failures.

If we went your way and dismissed nag we would lose all these subsequent program and progress.

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Ok ... lage raho ...................
Armed Forces were existing before DRDO, they exist during DRDO and shall continue to exist and if forced shall throw stones at tanks and still fight ...

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Chalo theek hai... I will try and learn the DRDO way... soldiers will also tell the govt that they will not go on attack because it is raining outside or because they do not have MPATGM..
That stage may come...

There is no logic. ISRO has value because few countries have space programs and definition of quality lies in only putting payload in orbit.
Nothing else.

 

[IndianHawk]

Ok ... lage raho ...................
Armed Forces were existing before DRDO, they exist during DRDO and shall continue to exist and if forced shall throw stones at tanks and still fight ...

Better than throwing jevelin which can't identify tank from hot desert in the heat at thar.

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[Jaguar_1432]

India has delivered the first 2 of 4 refurbished Mi-24 it had promised the Afghan National Defense and Security Forces in early 2018 to boost their counter-insurgency capabilities. These helis are a replacement for the four attack helicopters previously gifted by India to Afghan in 2015. The statement referred to four refurbished Mi-25 assault helicopters India delivered to the ANSDF in April 2015 as a part of bilateral strategic agreement signed in 2011 between New Delhi and Kabul. India, however, has declined to elaborate on whether these Mi-25 has been lost operationally or simply become inoperative.

 

[Bhadra]

Better than throwing jevelin which can't identify tank from hot desert in the heat at thar.

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Ha Ha Ha .. As if Your Danda can do it..... it needs an air conditioners like all DODOs ..

 

[IndianHawk]

Ha Ha Ha .. As if Your Danda can do it..... it needs an air conditioners like all DODOs ..

Exactly an indegenios danda is better then a foreign dud!

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[Bhadra]

There is no logic. ISRO has value because few countries have space programs and definition of quality lies in only putting payload in orbit.
Nothing else.

I agree that logic does not work with any MoD agency till they continue to be tools of big time kickbacks and corruption money !
ISRO has its own culture, discipline, work ethos and a sense of dedication. They have developed that over so many years under admirable and competent leadership. They take pride in being a class in themselves. They have built an "institution" rather than being a social justice employment agency. They partner with the best institutions of the world like NASA rather than priding in cultivating "Bhoot Mirchi".

That is what makes the difference.

 

[Bhadra]

Exactly an indegenios danda is better then a foreign dud!

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Oh yes, Indians as also all societies the world over are well known to opt for enlightened foreign oppression rather than hell of greedy indigenous terrorism.
Denial and blocking modernisation in the name of "indigenousness in void" is not acceptable.

 

[IndianHawk]

Oh yes, Indians as also all societies the world over are well known to opt for enlightened foreign oppression rather than hell of greedy indigenous terrorism.
Denial and blocking modernisation in the name of "indigenousness in void" is not acceptable.

Now you are just rambling.

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[Bhadra]

Now you are just rambling.

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No.....
Why not deny import of modern medicines to Indians with indigenisation plea..
Why take services of Amazon ?
Why do you drink pepsi or Coca cola instead of Gulab jal or roohafza..
Why do you fly in Boeing's ?
Why do you read, study and write in English ? That is indigenous... ??
Nothing is going to work without import. It has has to be balanced by exports is the economics and not your bullshit.

Now please do not pontificate saving dollars etc only in arms and weapons when your shirt is imported.
Need for "Indigenous" can not be a deliberate vested block to Modernisation and modernisation in time. By the time you give Tejas to IAF the aircraft technology would have reached VII th generation.

It is guys like you who start rambling without being rational, logical and realistic.
What is so great about your indigenous when 80% of it is imported.
Does assembling means being indigenous ??

Faulty thinking and faulty work culture !!

 

[gryphus-scarface]

No.....
Why not deny import of modern medicines to Indians with indigenisation plea..
Why take services of Amazon ?
Why do you drink pepsi or Coca cola instead of Gulab jal or roohafza..
Why do you fly in Boeing's ?
Why do you read, study and write in English ? That is indigenous... ??
Nothing is going to work without import. It has has to be balanced by exports is the economics and not your bullshit.

Whataboutism

Now please do not pontificate saving dollars etc only in arms and weapons when your shirt is imported.

Just hand wave counter arguments and expect a healthy discussion.

Need for "Indigenous" can not be a deliberate vested block to Modernisation and modernisation in time. By the time you give Tejas to IAF the aircraft technology would have reached VII th generation.

Tejas has already achieved FOC. The 40 should be delivered by 2022, which very much is achievable with the 16 per year that HAL is promising right now. Also the first "6th gen" fighters are set to fly by 2030 earliest, by which time, the Tejas production line would have long since stopped.

It is guys like you who start rambling without being rational, logical and realistic.
What is so great about your indigenous when 80% of it is imported.
Does assembling means being indigenous ??

Faulty thinking and faulty work culture !!

Says the guy that's rambling about making indigenous stuff.

 

[Bhadra]

Whataboutism


Just hand wave counter arguments and expect a healthy discussion.

Tejas has already achieved FOC. The 40 should be delivered by 2022, which very much is achievable with the 16 per year that HAL is promising right now. Also the first "6th gen" fighters are set to fly by 2030 earliest, by which time, the Tejas production line would have long since stopped.


Says the guy that's rambling about making indigenous stuff.

No No and No...
The indigenous bug is alright and great provided that :

It can not be obtained easily internationally.

It can be developed at affordable cost.

It has a very high domestic / indigenous content rather than assembly a la Arjun Tank. OR ALH or Tajas.

It is technologically comparable and competitive product if not better

It is at competitive price if not cheaper..

It adds to domestic economy and results in savings rather than meant to run a parasite organisation only..

It is readily available to the user or made available as per requirements

It is in time and does not run into multiple overcosts..

It provides a value to the developers, users and country.

It has an earning value and can be exported .

Tejas was just for example and there thousands more ?

You take 60 years to make a grenade where Indian Forces wait under a banana tree for banana to fall.

Do imose slavery in the name of indigenous.