India-Pakistan LoC/IB Skirmishes in the Aftermath of August 5 2019

[Bhadra]

More details on the encounter.....
"an overhanging mass of hardened snow at the edge of a mountain precipice. It broke under their weight and they fell into a nallah, a frozen mountain stream, right into where the terrorists were hiding. This led to a close quarter fight in the most literal sense."

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In a frantic, terrifyingly close quarter fight, 5 Pakistani terrorist infiltrators were killed in the Jumgund area of north Kashmir’s Kupwara sector on Sunday, the biggest incursion attempt since the snows have begun to melt. The encounter has also become one of the most costly for the Indian Special Forces, with 5 men of the elite 4 Para (SF) killed in action.

The four men have been identified as Subedar Sanjeev Kumar and Paratrooper Bal Krishan from Himachal Pradesh, Havildar Davendra Singh and Paratrooper Amit Kumar from Uttarakhand, and Paratrooper Chhatrapal Singh from Rajasthan.

The terrorists had infiltrated across the Line of Control last week. Movement had been noticed near fence on Wednesday from drone imagery. On Saturday, two squads of the 4 Para (Special Forces) were deployed for a forward staging to the nearest battalion headquarters, and from there to Rangdoori, Guguldara and Teen Behak areas of Jumgund. They needed to chopper it in as the battalion remains cut off by winter snow.

Intermittent exchanges of fire continued from 2 locations, and the from just one location. Tracking movements across two days, it became clear that the terrorists had been cornered into a part of Kupwara’s dense Zurhama forest, not far from the Jumgund village. Tracking footsteps in the snow, one of the 4 Para squads in the snow tragically realised too late that they were on a cornice — an overhanging mass of hardened snow at the edge of a mountain precipice. It broke under their weight and they fell into a nallah, a frozen mountain stream, right into where the terrorists were hiding. This led to a close quarter fight in the most literal sense.

In the words of an officer familiar with details, “As luck would have it, where they fell, the militants were sitting right there. This led to a firefight at virtually point blank range. I have to give it to the training standards of the SF guys. Inspite of the fall, all five terrorists were killed. The complete squad was lost.”

Two soldiers succumbed to their injuries on Sunday evening after being airlifted to Srinagar’s Army hospital. The remains of the other 3 commandos and the terrorists were found within just three meters of each other.

The 4 Para (Special Forces) is the Army unit that undertook the 2016 surgical strikes in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir in which 38 terrorists were killed.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/202...ecial-forces-men-die-fighting-terrorists.html

My heart goes out to those brave men of 4 PARA SF who undertook this dare devil, virtually a lost operation, but still managed to kill five just crossed over well equipped and prepared pigs.

The situation described is virtually a no go situation when heliborne troops are to be dropped over well armed sitting and naturally fortifies terrorists. They say within yards. No way. Even a 100kg bomb will not do the job completely.

Another similar type operation I am aware of was when we lost 28 soldiers within minutes of the first landing on University grounds of Jaffna against LTTE. Then even a well defence occupying detachment of our SF nearby could not save them.

Such a situation can be nothing but a disaster. I am sure our commanders and SF boys will take it that way unlike many experts of this forum who do not loose an opportunity to name call Army and sell their fattu INSAS even having lost all around on that front. Just have a look a few post back and you will see those Drawing Room sellu experts unassembling Trevor by nuts and bolts.

 

[Waanar]

For anyone doubting our sf. This post is also by the same user but it actually pretty much clears the debate we were having in special forces thread about using heavy firepower and why US special forces do so.

I'd advise everyone to not read too much into this once instance. It's sadly the law of averages playing itself out. When you send out guys with equal firepower to that of the enemy day in and day out, and thus perpetuate a battle of equals, one of the days the enemy is going to get lucky.

If you see the video of the US Medal of honor recipient, late John A Chapman's team engagement, you'll find that even US SFs when faced with equally or better armed enemies tend to suffer quite high casualties. This is universal this is why you never fight the enemy on an equal ground. Do whatever must.you need to do to ensure there is never an equal battle. That's what US strives for every single enagagement. Overwhelming response, never proportionate response.

The very fact that despite years of fighting the enemy on roughly equal terms the kids ratios are 4:1 in our favour speaks to the capabilities of our SFs. But you cannot expect to under equip them, under support them, and then expect miracles from them Everytime. Law of averages will move everything towards the mean in time.

He and falcon are the two users whose postings are worth reading both their answers are down to earth and very informative.

Worth a read.

Here you go all his answers
http://www.**************.org/forums/search/32151/
Don't know man can't copy the link here it's not working.

It will be better if you go to the forum and search up his name.

Guys, please note this.

Our guys get in firefights almost every damn week. Nothing beats our SOFs in medium range engagement.
Their CQB and long range capabilities may be a bit iffy, but I have trouble believing that guys regularly getting in confrontation with the enemy in a good-ol firefight ALL the time are anything less than near-perfect in it.

If you read about US SOFs, they almost always mention that they rarely if even kill enemies by gunfire. Most of it is JTACs/ CCTs calling in airstrikes, use of militias or, the closest to our situation being machineguns.

And what do our SOFs use?
A fucking romanian piece of shit Pikka!
You know who uses Pikka?
The militias in Syria and maybe the police in Russia (even they've moved on to Pecheneg).
Take a bow to the 5 fallen operators.

They were probably some of the deadliest men on earth killed by a lucky random spray on an ominous day.
To think that they deliberately enter zones to exact revenge after some mischief by the Porkis, knowing full well that the enemy expects them and is on alert is genuinely terrifying and yet goes to show how confident they are.

I consider myself a fairly brave person, but I'd shit myself enough to make my boots squishy at the thought of doing that.
So either they don't feel fear, or they are just so well trained that it's naturally easy for them to do that.
Either way, all our guys need is some independence and tech.
It's not a stretch then to say that they can match or even outclass the world famous US or UK's SOFs..

 

[indiatester]

My heart goes out to those brave men of 4 PARA SF who undertook this dare devil, virtually a lost operation, but still managed to kill five just crossed over well equipped and prepared pigs.

The situation described is virtually a no go situation when heliborne troops are to be dropped over well armed sitting and naturally fortifies terrorists. They say within yards. No way. Even a 100kg bomb will not do the job completely.

Another similar type operation I am aware of was when we lost 28 soldiers within minutes of the first landing on University grounds of Jaffna against LTTE. Then even a well defence occupying detachment of our SF nearby could not save them.

Such a situation can be nothing but a disaster. I am sure our commanders and SF boys will take it that way unlike many experts of this forum who do not loose an opportunity to name call Army and sell their fattu INSAS even having lost all around on that front. Just have a look a few post back and you will see those Drawing Room sellu experts unassembling Trevor by nuts and bolts.

I still don't get why we need to drop troops unless there is an unacceptable collateral damage. They should have dropped some ordinance instead.
You are better placed to tell us why we risk our men in these cases.

 

[Bhadra]

Hit porki position with thermobaric bombs.

What is the cost of one such munition?
If Pakistan is waging a low cost / no cost jakat funded war, it is wise to keep your cost low.

 

[Bhadra]

I still don't get why we need to drop troops unless there is an unacceptable collateral damage. They should have dropped some ordinance instead.
You are better placed to tell us why we risk our men in these cases.

That is due to intelligence gaps that can occur in operations based on real time intelligence or quick reaction operations. In the operation was based on input of a drone that means there would be a gap of say minimum one and a half hour to two hours time between the input and time the operation is effective at the place. I estimate that is the earliest a heliborne operations could be launched on an area. In that two hours of gap window, having a constant watch over infiltrating militants through mountains, Nullahs, jungles , rocks and covered areas may not always be possible. I also give it that in two hours the terrorist could be found at a distance of upto one km away from their last position detected.

Secondly, a dropping place or point in such mountainous areas are very few and limited and selected along the axis of infiltration, may be as near as possible of the known location of terrorists. These have to be preselected and there is no the spot selection. Unless it is denied the drops would be carried out there only and Unless the drone has many other passes over the area and indicates that the dropping are has been occupied by hostiles.

These are small SF tactical operations and hence Pathfinding and Securing operations are not carried out specially not to loose surprise.

Under such multitudes of factors, it is not a big surprise if the SF drop occurs right on the heads of the terrorists on ground.

It is just a bad luck .. and one of those bad days.....

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Heart breaking days for india corona + this.

 

[Gandaberunda]

A Saga of Courage & Camaraderie

During the night of 2/3, the fence was cut in the AOR of 8 JAT, who detected it early morning of 03 Apr, informed the Formation & launched the opposite to track the infiltration tracks. From the footprints it was estimated to be a group of 5-6. Other units in vicinity were also mobilised & columns of 41 & 57 RR were pressed to establish a tight noose on possible escape routes.

Also, 4 Para was brought in, dropped by ALH on upper reaches to comb the area from top down. After establishing several dets and putting the area under surveillance using Quad-copter certain hotspots indicating possible locations of terrorist were identified. One such possible location was along a Nallah. The noose was further tightened with 8 JAT laying stops/ambushes on escape routes on the lower ridges & in the nal, while the 4 Para squad sweeping top down. At around 0430h the first contact was est, but the Terrorists managed to escape downwards along the nal. The JCO along with his squad started the chase in order to re-est the contact. At around 0830h contact was re-est.

As Sub Sanjeev along with Amit & Chhatrpal were trying to close in with the terrorist using a slight detour, unfortunately the snow gave in & the 3 of them slipped into the nal right in front of the terrorist. Despite the set back, and with grevious bullet injuries, they fired back & killed 2 terrorists. Ptr Amit sustained 15 bullet injuries while Sub Sanjeev & Ptr Chhatarpal also sustained numerous bullet injuries. Hav Devender & Ptr Bal Krishan charged in to extract their comrades without caring for their safety, & eliminated the balance 2 terrorists. 1 of the terrorists, the 5th one managed to run down the nal, but was eliminated by the stops of 8 JAT.

The squad of 4 Para (SF) fought bravely despite initial setback;
true saga of courage n camaraderie!

 

[Bhadra]

Guys, please note this.

Our guys get in firefights almost every damn week. Nothing beats our SOFs in medium range engagement.
Their CQB and long range capabilities may be a bit iffy, but I have trouble believing that guys regularly getting in confrontation with the enemy in a good-ol firefight ALL the time are anything less than near-perfect in it.

If you read about US SOFs, they almost always mention that they rarely if even kill enemies by gunfire. Most of it is JTACs/ CCTs calling in airstrikes, use of militias or, the closest to our situation being machineguns.

And what do our SOFs use?
A fucking romanian piece of shit Pikka!
You know who uses Pikka?
The militias in Syria and maybe the police in Russia (even they've moved on to Pecheneg).
Take a bow to the 5 fallen operators.

They were probably some of the deadliest men on earth killed by a lucky random spray on an ominous day.
To think that they deliberately enter zones to exact revenge after some mischief by the Porkis, knowing full well that the enemy expects them and is on alert is genuinely terrifying and yet goes to show how confident they are.

I consider myself a fairly brave person, but I'd shit myself enough to make my boots squishy at the thought of doing that.
So either they don't feel fear, or they are just so well trained that it's naturally easy for them to do that.
Either way, all our guys need is some independence and tech.
It's not a stretch then to say that they can match or even outclass the world famous US or UK's SOFs..

CQB battles are shock operations largely based on volume and density of fire, physical fire such as by flame throwers, blasts, destruction and damages aimed at rendering the opponents ineffective, shocked and awed. It is share brute operations of relative strengths.

One does not require range but volume of fire, Faultlessness and reliability of weapon system.

So all such rants are useless.

However, there large number of other SF operations where SF require variety and multitude of weaponry and equipment. Hence, such discussions about standardized weaponry of SF troops is useless. They need weaponry as per operations.

 

[angeldude13]

Om shanti to the deceased brave hearts of Indian Army ParaSF.

That being said it will keep on happening. We are fighting an enemy that hides it casuality and boasts it's bravery to it's uneducated population via national and international propaganda.
How do you take down such filth?
Simplest way is you strike them hard and inflict so much loss that no amount of propaganda could hide it. You make it a habit to bomb them into oblivion at every chance you get so that their jahil awam start to question the logic of spending so much dollars on useless military.

 

[Bhadra]

A Saga of Courage & Camaraderie

During the night of 2/3, the fence was cut in the AOR of 8 JAT, who detected it early morning of 03 Apr, informed the Formation & launched the opposite to track the infiltration tracks. From the footprints it was estimated to be a group of 5-6. Other units in vicinity were also mobilised & columns of 41 & 57 RR were pressed to establish a tight noose on possible escape routes.

Also, 4 Para was brought in, dropped by ALH on upper reaches to comb the area from top down. After establishing several dets and putting the area under surveillance using Quad-copter certain hotspots indicating possible locations of terrorist were identified. One such possible location was along a Nallah. The noose was further tightened with 8 JAT laying stops/ambushes on escape routes on the lower ridges & in the nal, while the 4 Para squad sweeping top down. At around 0430h the first contact was est, but the Terrorists managed to escape downwards along the nal. The JCO along with his squad started the chase in order to re-est the contact. At around 0830h contact was re-est.

As Sub Sanjeev along with Amit & Chhatrpal were trying to close in with the terrorist using a slight detour, unfortunately the snow gave in & the 3 of them slipped into the nal right in front of the terrorist. Despite the set back, and with grevious bullet injuries, they fired back & killed 2 terrorists. Ptr Amit sustained 15 bullet injuries while Sub Sanjeev & Ptr Chhatarpal also sustained numerous bullet injuries. Hav Devender & Ptr Bal Krishan charged in to extract their comrades without caring for their safety, & eliminated the balance 2 terrorists. 1 of the terrorists, the 5th one managed to run down the nal, but was eliminated by the stops of 8 JAT.

The squad of 4 Para (SF) fought bravely despite initial setback;
true saga of courage n camaraderie!

Here the situation is entirely different .....

In anti terrorist operation, it is generally said that one Terrorist killed is equivalent to 100 soldiers of enemy killed. However IA must aim at zero casualties or not less then ten terrorist to one of our brave heart.

 

[IndiaRising]

Here the situation is entirely different .....

In anti terrorist operation, it is generally said that one Terrorist killed is equivalent to 100 soldiers of enemy killed. However IA must aim at zero casualties or not less then ten terrorist to one of our brave heart.

hearing news that 3 more soldiers have died. Is it true?

 

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2020/04/as-indian-fights-covid19-5-special-forces-men-die-fighting-terrorists.html

The Pictures of our Para SF Jawans who Achieved Veergati today. They fought like Lions against Pisslam Dogs. Jai Hind and Bharat Mata Ki Jai.

 

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

hearing news that 3 more soldiers have died. Is it true?

I heard Four More Soldiers who were injured in the Encounter were shifted to 72 Base Hospital. I don’t know what there condition in right now. the info might be false we need to keep our guard up.

 

[Mikel]

hearing news that 3 more soldiers have died. Is it true?

Not according to this guy

 

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

This is for all the Dindus who say PorkiShitani Bastards deserve Respect and we need show them so called “Moral High Ground”. Let this Post from the Porkis ingrain into the minds of Dindus and also serve us a lesson that there will be never be any real peace between them and us. we need to Dispatch Every last Camel Pee Drinker Dog to Naraka. Naraka is the only place for a Porki and there Filthy ShitHole State. India needs to make it our mission exterminate the Porkis from the world if we can.

 

[IndiaRising]

Not according to this guy

nobody knows what’s the status. Local journos saying one thing, but army saying something else

 

[WARREN SS]

nobody knows what’s the status. Local journos saying one thing, but army saying something else

How Did Local journos Get info What happened Exactly On Op in that Terrain
Many Propagate theories For Views

Let Chinar corps Update

 

[fire starter]

nobody knows what’s the status. Local journos saying one thing, but army saying something else

believe on army local people are paki supporters who are even taking casualties to 13 on our side.

 

[fire starter]

believe on army local people are paki supporters who are even taking casualties to 13 on our side.

I was right....................

 

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

The Encounters are picking back up again. The first encounter after Kupwara Incident. 1RR, CRPF and J&K Police SOG launched a Cordon and Search Operation in the Wampora Area of Kulgam.