India-Pakistan LoC/IB Skirmishes in the Aftermath of August 5 2019

[aarav]

It's our army which believe in Sadbhavana & winning hearts and minds whatever that means ,this self inflicting strategy will only yield mixed results,if a drone captures them rather than dropping soldiers ,an attack helicopter with its main gun can finish task easily ,same is the case when we get info on terrorist hidden in houses we first give them a chance to surrender ,keep doing sadbhavana ,if you won't use airpower then there will be casualties maybe less but there will be.they are doing this for same kashmiri muslims who are propagating fake news regarding kupwara encounter

 

[LETHALFORCE]

It's our army which believe in Sadbhavana & winning hearts and minds whatever that means ,this self inflicting strategy will only yield mixed results,if a drone captures them rather than dropping soldiers ,an attack helicopter with its main gun can finish task easily ,same is the case when we get info on terrorist hidden in houses we first give them a chance to surrender ,keep doing sadbhavana ,if you won't use airpower then there will be casualties maybe less but there will be.they are doing this for same kashmiri muslims who are propagating fake news regarding kupwara encounter

This is why the cycle keeps repeating even after 4 wars . Most countries would have fixed this problem with one decisive war.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Underground Soldier]

Another report on the Fire Fight.








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5 Special Forces men, 5 terrorists: How a deadly hand-to-hand fight at the LoC unfolded
Five commandos of the elite 4 Para were killed in action after they eliminated 5 terrorists from Pakistan in close combat in J&K’s Keran sector.
SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP6 April, 2020 5:09 pm IST

Indian Army (representational image) | Photo: PTI
Text Size:
New Delhi: In one of the deadliest operations seen along the Line of Control, a hand-to-hand combat and close fire ensued Saturday that left five Special Forces personnel killed in action in Jammu and Kashmir’s Keran sector even as they managed to take out five terrorists who had sneaked in from Pakistan.

A frozen nallah became the combat location after the soldiers accidentally fell into it while chasing a trail amid difficult terrain and weather, at least three sources in the defence establishment told ThePrint.


In the hand-to-hand fight, all five terrorists were killed. One tried to escape, but was shot in the back while he was running away. His body was a found a few metres away from the combat spot.


However, the elite 4 Para unit of the Indian Army, which was also a part of the 2016 surgical strikes team, paid a heavy price for the victory — losing its entire team engaged in the operation. The body of one commando was found almost on top of a dead terrorist.

The slain personnel are Subedar Sanjeev Kumar, Havildar Davendra Singh, and paratroopers Bal Krishan, Amit Kumar and Chhatrapal Singh.


ThePrint spoke to sources to piece together the events that led to the operation, and what unfolded in Keran on the night of 4 April.

Also read: In a first, Army deploys medical team at civil coronavirus quarantine camp in Delhi

When terrorists were spotted
The movement of the infiltrating terrorists was first picked in the Keran sector on 2 April.


“There was a ceasefire violation that took place on the intervening night of 1-2 April. Following this, our specialised radar picked up the movement of a group of terrorists that had sneaked into the Indian territory,” said a senior Army officer, who didn’t wish to be named.

Following this, efforts were made to proactively track the movement of the terrorists. This involved the use of drones as well.

The regular troops in the sector were alerted and patrolling and sighting was increased. Additional troops were also called in to make a cordon of sorts.


On 4 April, a decision was made to insert personnel of the 4 Para.

The Keran sector of the LoC comes under the elite unit’s operation. Heavy snow and a difficult terrain pushed the Army authorities to call in its Special Forces.

Different teams of the Para are stationed near the LoC and are brought in for special combat operations, or to deal with terrorists who sneak in and remain in hiding.


Also read: Navy gets battle-ready for Covid-19 with low-cost temperature sensor, oxygen supply system

The events of 4 April
According to the plan, two teams of the 4 Para were inducted into Jumgund area of north Kashmir’s Kupwara, where Keran is located, Saturday. On that day, the area had low visibility due to the snow in the forests.

Since intermittent exchange of fire between Indian soldiers and the terrorists had already taken place since 2 April, the location of the terror operatives had already been zeroed down to Zurhama forest area.

The Special Forces commandos began their operation in the day as Subedar Sanjeev Kumar spotted the footsteps of the terrorists in the snow and followed the trail.

However, the trail took them to a cornice — a mass of hardened snow at the edge of a mountain. As the soldiers stepped on it, it broke and three of them including Kumar, the squad leader, fell into a frozen nallah.

This was right where the terrorists were hiding. The fall took every one of them by surprise.

Within seconds, the area lit up with gun flashes as the terrorists opened fire. Complete details of what happened immediately after this weren’t revealed, but the three commandos were said to have fired back.

The two soldiers who had managed to evade the fall jumped in seeing the firefight.
In the close combat that ensued, four terrorists were shot dead. One managed to run for a few metres before being shot dead with a bullet to his back.

“Body of one of the commandos was found literally on top of a terrorist. So you can imagine how close the combat was,” said a second source who didn’t wish to be identified.

While two soldiers were killed in action on the spot, three others were injured.

The Army launched a massive rescue operation, but the weather and dense terrain proved a major hindrance. The injured soldiers were eventually evacuated Sunday but succumbed to their injuries at the Army hospital in Srinagar.

The bodies of the five terrorists were also recovered.

Also read: Coronavirus doesn’t stop Indian Army from carrying out its annual cyber security exercise



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5 Special Forces men, 5 terrorists: How a deadly hand-to-hand fight at the LoC unfolded
Five commandos of the elite 4 Para were killed in action after they eliminated 5 terrorists from Pakistan in close combat in J&K’s Keran sector.
SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP6 April, 2020 5:09 pm IST

Indian Army (representational image) | Photo: PTI
Text Size:
New Delhi: In one of the deadliest operations seen along the Line of Control, a hand-to-hand combat and close fire ensued Saturday that left five Special Forces personnel killed in action in Jammu and Kashmir’s Keran sector even as they managed to take out five terrorists who had sneaked in from Pakistan.

A frozen nallah became the combat location after the soldiers accidentally fell into it while chasing a trail amid difficult terrain and weather, at least three sources in the defence establishment told ThePrint.


In the hand-to-hand fight, all five terrorists were killed. One tried to escape, but was shot in the back while he was running away. His body was a found a few metres away from the combat spot.


However, the elite 4 Para unit of the Indian Army, which was also a part of the 2016 surgical strikes team, paid a heavy price for the victory — losing its entire team engaged in the operation. The body of one commando was found almost on top of a dead terrorist.

The slain personnel are Subedar Sanjeev Kumar, Havildar Davendra Singh, and paratroopers Bal Krishan, Amit Kumar and Chhatrapal Singh.


ThePrint spoke to sources to piece together the events that led to the operation, and what unfolded in Keran on the night of 4 April.

Also read: In a first, Army deploys medical team at civil coronavirus quarantine camp in Delhi

When terrorists were spotted
The movement of the infiltrating terrorists was first picked in the Keran sector on 2 April.


“There was a ceasefire violation that took place on the intervening night of 1-2 April. Following this, our specialised radar picked up the movement of a group of terrorists that had sneaked into the Indian territory,” said a senior Army officer, who didn’t wish to be named.

Following this, efforts were made to proactively track the movement of the terrorists. This involved the use of drones as well.

The regular troops in the sector were alerted and patrolling and sighting was increased. Additional troops were also called in to make a cordon of sorts.


On 4 April, a decision was made to insert personnel of the 4 Para.

The Keran sector of the LoC comes under the elite unit’s operation. Heavy snow and a difficult terrain pushed the Army authorities to call in its Special Forces.

Different teams of the Para are stationed near the LoC and are brought in for special combat operations, or to deal with terrorists who sneak in and remain in hiding.


Also read: Navy gets battle-ready for Covid-19 with low-cost temperature sensor, oxygen supply system

The events of 4 April
According to the plan, two teams of the 4 Para were inducted into Jumgund area of north Kashmir’s Kupwara, where Keran is located, Saturday. On that day, the area had low visibility due to the snow in the forests.

Since intermittent exchange of fire between Indian soldiers and the terrorists had already taken place since 2 April, the location of the terror operatives had already been zeroed down to Zurhama forest area.

The Special Forces commandos began their operation in the day as Subedar Sanjeev Kumar spotted the footsteps of the terrorists in the snow and followed the trail.

However, the trail took them to a cornice — a mass of hardened snow at the edge of a mountain. As the soldiers stepped on it, it broke and three of them including Kumar, the squad leader, fell into a frozen nallah.

This was right where the terrorists were hiding. The fall took every one of them by surprise.

Within seconds, the area lit up with gun flashes as the terrorists opened fire. Complete details of what happened immediately after this weren’t revealed, but the three commandos were said to have fired back.

The two soldiers who had managed to evade the fall jumped in seeing the firefight.
In the close combat that ensued, four terrorists were shot dead. One managed to run for a few metres before being shot dead with a bullet to his back.

“Body of one of the commandos was found literally on top of a terrorist. So you can imagine how close the combat was,” said a second source who didn’t wish to be identified.

While two soldiers were killed in action on the spot, three others were injured.

The Army launched a massive rescue operation, but the weather and dense terrain proved a major hindrance. The injured soldiers were eventually evacuated Sunday but succumbed to their injuries at the Army hospital in Srinagar.

The bodies of the five terrorists were also recovered.

Also read: Coronavirus doesn’t stop Indian Army from carrying out its annual cyber security exercise



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[IndiaRising]

All journalists are now saying only 5 KIA.

 

[The Ultranationalist]

What is the cost of one such munition?
If Pakistan is waging a low cost / no cost jakat funded war, it is wise to keep your cost low.

Far lesser than the lives of our fighting men and their training.

 

[aarav]

They have Rudra helicopters same can carry the soldiers as well as provide CAS ,but army's reluctance to use them is based on wrong principle ,in this.operation a mishap of falling in the gorge lead to the battle casualties same was the case with major dhundiyal operation after pulwama where a terrorist under the rubble was safe ,waited for the opportunity ,still our army doesn't use air power where as third rate powers like sri lanka against LTTE & syria uses them very effectively

 

[sorcerer]

#BREAKING : Paki Army again violated ceasefire in Mankote sector along LoC after loosing 7 Pakistani soldiers and getting injured 5 including Paki Maj Gen Mumtaz Hussain due to strong retaliation by Indian Army in last 24 hrs.Our soldiers again giving buffeting reply to them.

 

[Bhadra]

It's our army which believe in Sadbhavana & winning hearts and minds whatever that means ,this self inflicting strategy will only yield mixed results,

Who lays down policy for Army ? There is nothing wrong with Sadbhavana as IA has no Durabhavana for the locals. Sadbhavan essentially aims at extending links of administration and welfare to locals in areas where civilian administration bleeds from their afts.

if a drone captures them rather than dropping soldiers ,an attack helicopter with its main gun can finish task easily ,same is the case when we get info on terrorist hidden in houses we first give them a chance to surrender ,keep doing sadbhavana ,if you won't use airpower then there will be casualties maybe less but there will be.they are doing this for same kashmiri muslims who are propagating fake news regarding kupwara encounter

you know nothing.
IA does not conduct anti terrorist operations like the US Rambos in Afghanistan. The operation are mostly when in contact with civilians or terrorists. No MF attack hepter can fire when own troop are in contact or in proximities.

No one is killed or fired upon unless it is 100% established hostile and enemy. We have large number of soldiers on LOC . Then we have second tier closely behind Then the third tier, then RR, CRPF and Police forces everywhere.

Who will your hepter fire on and where will they fire? You think there is wilderness in Kashmir like Afghanistan or Balochistan ??

What is your estimate on how low an attack heptr can come in mountainous terrain ?? And if a pilot can distinguish between own soldiers and terrorists from there. What is radius of error for such firing ? What weapons attack hepter fires and what are the CEP of such weapons fired from attack heptrs.

How does one ensure AD if Porkies are armed with stingers ?? Every measures taken by Army will introduce a counter measure by the other side.

Watching youtube videos and Rambo movies and then teaching Army how to fuck is not good enough.

 

[IndiaRising]

any pictures of dead Kupwara jihadis?

 

[Bhadra]

Far lesser than the lives of our fighting men and their training.

Then give it to them and they will use it. Finito.
Army does not lay down their budget ... do they ....???

 

[ArgonPrime]

Who lays down policy for Army ? There is nothing wrong with Sadbhavana as IA has no Durabhavana for the locals. Sadbhavan essentially aims at extending links of administration and welfare to locals in areas where civilian administration bleeds from their afts.



you know nothing.
IA does not conduct anti terrorist operations like the US Rambos in Afghanistan. The operation are mostly when in contact with civilians or terrorists. No MF attack hepter can fire when own troop are in contact or in proximities.

No one is killed or fired upon unless it is 100% established hostile and enemy. We have large number of soldiers on LOC . Then we have second tier closely behind Then the third tier, then RR, CRPF and Police forces everywhere.

Who will your hepter fire on and where will they fire? You think there is wilderness in Kashmir like Afghanistan or Balochistan ??

What is your estimate on how low an attack heptr can come in mountainous terrain ?? And if a pilot can distinguish between own soldiers and terrorists from there. What is radius of error for such firing ? What weapons attack hepter fires and what are the CEP of such weapons fired from attack heptrs.

How does one ensure AD if Porkies are armed with stingers ?? Every measures taken by Army will introduce a counter measure by the other side.

Maybe the army should invest in Infrared strobe lights then??

Watching youtube videos and Rambo movies and then teaching Army how to fuck is not good enough.

Don't know anything about Rambo but I wouldn't discredit all those 'pesky youtubers' on a whim like that.

 

[Bhadra]

Maybe the army should invest in Infrared strobe lights then??


Don't know anything about Rambo but I wouldn't discredit all those 'pesky youtubers' on a whim like that.

I wish to see an attack heptr being used by anyone when CQB operations are going on down below. - The terrorist are in the next room on inside a building surrounded by own troops or in a paddy field being searched by own troops or at an IED blast site with own dead wounded and living all littered around ( a La Pulwama).

Anti infiltration operations astride LOC are near or say withing one km inside LOC / All helicopter in proximity or near LOC are under enemy radar and under all sorts of fire including AD weapons.

Can you ever imagined an attack hepter firing on a village or on a gujjar bahak or near a herd of sheep in high mountains...

Imagination...imaginations..... in competition with Sheikh Chilli...

 

[vishnugupt]

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2020/04/as-indian-fights-covid19-5-special-forces-men-die-fighting-terrorists.html
https://www.livefistdefence.com/202...ecial-forces-men-die-fighting-terrorists.html

The Pictures of our Para SF Jawans who Achieved Veergati today. They fought like Lions against Pisslam Dogs. Jai Hind and Bharat Mata Ki Jai.

satt satt naman ho veero ko
Look at their fearless face gives us goosebumps. These are soldiers who earn respect despite all odds and if victory still at large then they sacrifice themselves in the quest of the saving motherland. my heartfelt condolences to their family. salute to Bravehearts
This incident also begs 2 questions
1: why the army doesn't use attack helicopter in such situations?
2: Bad weather delayed the evacuation of wounded soldiers. Don't we have any robust way/method to evacuate injured soldiers in environment

 

[ArgonPrime]

I wish to see an attack heptr being used by anyone when CQB operations are going on down below. - The terrorist are in the next room on inside a building surrounded by own troops or in a paddy field being searched by own troops or at an IED blast site with own dead wounded and living all littered around ( a La Pulwama).

Anti infiltration operations astride LOC are near or say withing one km inside LOC / All helicopter in proximity or near LOC are under enemy radar and under all sorts of fire including AD weapons.

Can you ever imagined an attack hepter firing on a village or on a gujjar bahak or near a herd of sheep in high mountains...

With all due respect, I replied to a specific part of your comment where you had been wondering whether a pilot can distinguish the blue team from the red one. My comment was in reply to that specific little part, so these details aren't that relevant.
By the way, the US forces have been using Attack choppers in Afghanistan and have used them in danger close situations as well, so I don't see why our Army emulate the same process where ever the circumstances would allow for it.

 

[Bhadra]

With all due respect, I replied to a specific part of your comment where you had been wondering whether a pilot can distinguish the blue team from the red one. My comment was in reply to that specific little part, so these details aren't that relevant.
By the way, the US forces have been using Attack choppers in Afghanistan and have used them in danger close situations as well, so I don't see why our Army emulate the same process where ever the circumstances would allow for it.

When troops (now a days terrorists attired in camouflage with Army like rucksacks etc look like troops only) are in close proximity, the pilots can not distinguish between the two.

Our own SF guys and other troops suffered severe injuries when we used some attack heptrs in Sri Lanka for a few days but then had to stop.

USA never use attack hepter when their troops are in contact, in proximity or even operating in given area. They search and destroy. At best they have used attach hepter to ward off stand off attacks on their posts. Attack hepter have been extensively used by SF to bring fire on the given targets as part of special operations.

It is plain stupid to kill a man on ground using attack heptrs when the ground has tree or bush or boulders or rock cover and density of own troops on ground adds to the uncertainty a thousand times and kill area is very restricted.

There are better jobs for hepters such as ammunition carriage, casualty evacuation, reinforcement with troops, logistics support and extrication and even surveillance.

 

[sorcerer]

#BREAKING : Pakistan Army bunker blasted with ATGM by Indian Army near Haridhara village of Goi sector in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. Ambulance seen in the area after Indian Army action. Loss expected to enemy. Expecting atleast 2 "Dusra Banda" from here.

 

[aarav]

Who lays down policy for Army ? There is nothing wrong with Sadbhavana as IA has no Durabhavana for the locals. Sadbhavan essentially aims at extending links of administration and welfare to locals in areas where civilian administration bleeds from their afts.



you know nothing.
IA does not conduct anti terrorist operations like the US Rambos in Afghanistan. The operation are mostly when in contact with civilians or terrorists. No MF attack hepter can fire when own troop are in contact or in proximities.

No one is killed or fired upon unless it is 100% established hostile and enemy. We have large number of soldiers on LOC . Then we have second tier closely behind Then the third tier, then RR, CRPF and Police forces everywhere.

Who will your hepter fire on and where will they fire? You think there is wilderness in Kashmir like Afghanistan or Balochistan ??

What is your estimate on how low an attack heptr can come in mountainous terrain ?? And if a pilot can distinguish between own soldiers and terrorists from there. What is radius of error for such firing ? What weapons attack hepter fires and what are the CEP of such weapons fired from attack heptrs.

How does one ensure AD if Porkies are armed with stingers ?? Every measures taken by Army will introduce a counter measure by the other side.

Watching youtube videos and Rambo movies and then teaching Army how to fuck is not good enough.

First of all there won't be any civilians in Keran sector especially near LoC nor would be police and CRPF only army elements hence a blue on blue incident probability is low,you do know the range of helicopter 20mm guns is atleast 2km ,on rudra it is nextar 20mm gun ,on stinger part ,first of all baki won't give them stingers ,stingers only work with line of sight not if you are at safe distance,less said about difference between US & Indian army strategy is better as one can see stark difference in casualty rates at a period of 20 years if we look at afghanistan & jammu & Kashmir

 

[Bhadra]

satt satt naman ho veero ko
Look at their fearless face gives us goosebumps. These are soldiers who earn respect despite all odds and if victory still at large then they sacrifice themselves in the quest of the saving motherland. my heartfelt condolences to their family. salute to Bravehearts
This incident also begs 2 questions
1: why the army doesn't use attack helicopter in such situations?
2: Bad weather delayed the evacuation of wounded soldiers. Don't we have any robust way/method to evacuate injured soldiers in environment

Terrain including weather is a killer for soldiers.

Army has a possible robust system of medical aid to wounded soldiers. However only a live parson can be evacuated. Casualties of such close encounters are generally fetal. In a case, it has been said that he sustained fifteen bullet wounds.
Generally there is a golden period of one hour after being wounded which is critical and one can expect to be saved. All depends on the nature of wound and proximity of a doctor.

 

[ArgonPrime]

When troops (now a days terrorists attired in camouflage with Army like rucksacks etc look like troops only) are in close proximity, the pilots can not distinguish between the two.

Yes and that's where things like infrared strobe lights/uv patches come in real handy.

Our own SF guys and other troops suffered severe injuries when we used some attack heptrs in Sri Lanka for a few days but then had to stop.

USA never use attack hepter when their troops are in contact, in proximity or even operating in given area. They search and destroy. At best they have used attach hepter to ward off stand off attacks on their posts.

It is plain stupid to kill a man on ground using attack heptrs when the ground has tree or bush or boulders or rock cover and density of own troops on ground adds to the uncertainity a thousand times.

As I said, do it only when the situation would allow the use of the choppers. Maybe the friendly ground forces in the vicinity can be advised to clear out over the radio network before the choppers go in guns blazing.
And by the way, modern attack choppers can be used in comparatively close proximity to friendly forces as long as they stick with the onboard autocannons, with comparatively being the key word here.

There better jobs for hepters such as ammunition carriage, casualty evacuation, reinforcement with troops, logistics support and extrication and even surveillance.

No disagreement there.

 

[Bhadra]

First of all there won't be any civilians in Keran sector especially near LoC nor would be police and CRPF only army elements hence a blue on blue incident probability is low,you do know the range of helicopter 20mm guns is atleast 2km ,on rudra it is nextar 20mm gun ,on stinger part ,first of all baki won't give them stingers ,stingers only work with line of sight not if you are at safe distance,less said about difference between US & Indian army strategy is better as one can see stark difference in casualty rates at a period of 20 years if we look at afghanistan & jammu & Kashmir

You know the terrain between Kupwara forests till Bandipora or Kupwara and Pattan ?
If the terrorists were spotted like like sitting ducks on the ground why would we loose five brave men ? Now you wish to kill them from two km with 20mm cannon !! Wow !!

No uniformed man ever wants to kill his own comrades. That pilot will be damned for his life. He will go mad with PTSD.

The less said the better.