India Pakistan conflict along LoC and counter terrorist operations

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Indx TechStyle

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India On Verge Of Losing The Holy Kailash Range To China As Demands Grow Not To Abandon It Again?


The Indian media recently reported that Indian and Chinese military commanders were nearing a ‘breakthrough’ in the negotiations to mutually disengage from the tense situation at the eastern Ladakh border.


The top Indian defense officials were quoted to have said that the two countries were finally proposing to pull-back troops, tanks, howitzers and armored vehicles in the Pangong Tso area.

In the eighth round of high-level military talks that took place on November 6 between the armies of the two countries, Indian media claimed that China had agreed to move its troops back to Finger 8, which was the original position of its troops before April 2020.

The Indian government is also reported to have claimed that the negotiations ended with both sides accepting to declare the Finger 4 and Finger 8 a ‘no-patrol’ zone for both the armies.
The Indian troops seized control of dominating heights on the strategically important Kailash Range during the night of 29 August, a move that infuriated the Chinese.

The People’s Liberation Army (PLA) has since then been adamant and has persistently demanded that disengagement must begin with the Indian troops withdrawing from the Kailash Range because India has ‘altered the status quo’.

Mount Kailash

Indian troops rushed to occupy positions on the Kailash Range to deny any further strategic advantages to the Chinese and halt their advances into the Indian territory and prevent them from altering the status quo.
What the Indian media failed to report was that the proposed new agreement entailed a difficult decision for India, which is to withdraw its troops from the Kailash range. The entire Kailash range is being converted into a buffer zone, disallowing the troops from both the sides to patrol it.

According to Lt Gen H S Panag, who has served more than 40 years in the Indian army as GOC in Northern Command and Central Command, “It seems to be a quid pro quo agreement for the PLA to withdraw east of Finger 8 (north of Pangong Tso) and us withdrawing from the Kailash Range.”
Writing for The Print, HS Panag says, “It is pertinent to mention that all buffer zones which are likely to be created are on our side of the LAC, denying us the right to patrol, deploy or develop infrastructure, which we had up to April 2020. Given the yawning differential between the military capabilities in China’s favor, this kind of agreement was inevitable.”He adds that the Kailash Range is one area where the alignment of the 1959 Claim Line offers a major strategic advantage to India, and for the first time since 1962, we are holding it in strength.
“This, negates the strategic advantage the PLA had gained due to its preemptive operations in the Depsang Plains, Hot Springs-Gogra and north of Pangong Tso.”

The two countries had fiercely fought for Kailash Range in the 1962 war, which the Indian troops had to abandon due to lack of force strength and psychological games played by China. Lt. Gen. Panag believes that in 1962, the Indian Army had psychologically collapsed and abandoned the Kailash Range and Chushul Sector when, militarily, there was no need to do so.

Lt. Gen. Panag blames the 1962 withdrawal on flawed strategic planning, weak leadership and lack of reconnaissance efforts by the Indian army to study troop strengths on the other side.
“Today we must not pull back from it merely to declare a political victory. More so, when we gain very little in return. What more can the Chinese want?”, he writes in the scathing article.

Other than its strategic advantages for India, the Kailash ranges are considered holy in the Hindu religion, practiced by the majority of people in India. The ranges stretch from Mount Kailash in Tibet till south of Pangong Tso lake including Rechin La, Mukhpari, Gurung Hills and Magar hills are thought to be about 450 km across.


The Indian Army again took control of roughly 60-70 km of the Kailash Ranges along the RechinLa, Mukhpari, Magar and Gurung Hills upto Hainan coast on Pangong Tso lake, on 29-30th August 2020.
The Indian pilgrims used to visit Kailash Mansarovar from Ladakh via Demchok but the route now stands closed after Tibet was illegally occupied by China, which is where the holy abode of Lord Shiva lies now.
The state-based Global Times, essentially the mouthpiece of the Chinese government, quoted its government saying that the two countries were about to implement a disengagement plan under reciprocal principle with the premise that India should firstly withdraw staff who illegally crossed lines on the southern side of the Pangong Tso Lake, which includes the Kailash Range.

It mentioned that the ‘disengagement plan’ reported by the Indian media was not accurate and that India has always had “unrealistic” ideas about the Line of Actual Control (LAC) and disregarded history, “unilaterally believing that Fingers 4 to 8 are its patrolling areas, and has sought to gain bargaining chips in talks by fishing for interests in the disputed border area.”

Why there are contradictory reports by the media groups of the two countries is unknown, however, the Indian side seems to have conceded to withdrawing from strategic positions, which is most likely going to displease the masses in India, and even the pro-government population for the sentimental value attached to Kailash.

Another Indian military expert wrote that it seemed the Modi government “was willing to give away the Kailash range to the PLA on a plater” as a price for taking the September 10 Moscow agreement forward.
There is genuine concern among the Indian political and military analysts that if the strategically important mountain range is lost, the PLA may never let India take it back. So, it’s going to be challenging for the Modi government to maneuver the country out of this deadlock, where it stands between a rock and a hard place.
EurasiaTimes and Asia Times are chong shill websites known to publish anti India articles
They are more of pro Pak websites.
Fuck all this mofos. Pakistan is building a case of terrorism against India. And the worst part is.. International media is picking it up. Recently Washington Post posted a whole article on it.

India needs to to actively counter it.

Should we start with similar press conference, exposing Porkis? Or what else?


While one can just laugh and pass it off like the pot calling the kettle black, but in the long run an active lobbying by Porkis will definitely dents the brand 'India'.
The newspapers which will actually cover it are already a joke. Barely there is going to be any dent on India's image regarding terrorism, especially from Pak.
 

FalconSlayers

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Do we have that capability on our own? Afghan Special Forces are better equipped if not better trained than the Indian Special Forces, their training is different from ours, they know their own way, we know ours.
 

airtel

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Folks...we are also forgetting some asymmetric cards that we possess: right now 70% of Pakistan is desert and unfit for agriculture or growing anything. The remaining 30% is largely Punjab which is watered by rivers we control. Any excess use of the waters by us by channeling it into the canals of Rajasthan deserts could desertify porkiland even more. You do this little by little every year (to keep up the appearance of IWT) and in 10 years, porkiland becomes 90% desert. And our own Thar desert starts to greenify (You can already see this happening - see sat images of thar desert). This would make Pakis perennially food insecure having to import even basic food stuff, the world market for which we control a lot, as Porkis eat stuff similar to us (minus the donkey meat of course, Pakis’ version of beef, as they are too poor to afford real beef). This is a longer game but a game we should actively play. Sindh people already are against the Punjabi feudals as the Indus hardly has any water by the time it reaches them (thanks to our dams). This has almost 90% desertified sindh. Southern Punjab’s deserts are spreading every year as you can see from Google maps time progression.
Kindly post Google maps in time progression
 

FalconSlayers

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My assessment how we can take over PoK and GB.

1. Afghanistan is our blood brother, we should increase military cooperation and later we both can create instability in Pakistan as GB in Indian control will create an Indian version of CPEC which will IMO be called as India Afghanistan Economic Corridor (IAEC) that will boost the economies of both India and Afghanistan. So Afghanistan will be helping us.

2. We should contain the share of water that goes to them under the Indus water treaty by making Dams in J&K and similar dams should be made with investment in Afghanistan over Kabul river that will increase the water supply and availability in Afghanistan and will hurt Pakistan a lot.

3. Information and Propaganda warfare via SM in GB and PoK to turn the local population against Pakistan by showing how good the muslims live in India and how they are being treated.

4. Funding and fuelling insurgencies in Balochistan, Sindhudesh, Pashtunistan and Many Punjabi areas of South Punjab.

5. Arms race against Pakistan: 2 benefits, A. Our Military gap with china will reduce B. Will make pakistan buy more weapons.

6. Wait: pakistan is in grey list, has a lot of external debt and tonnes of internal debt, spends 4% of economy on defence, corrupt generals of porki army stealing money And an arms race will be final nail in coffin, we should show aggression on LoC to make pakistan panic and buy weapons just like china did.

7. After a few years it will be easy peasy to take over PoJKL as even the people would request India to take them over.
 

Rassil Krishnan

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There is a reason Muslim countries without ample natural resources have only seen Material/HDI progress under the stick of some military dictator( or elected Eternal President ) who suppresses that particular religion
Turkey, the ex-USSR ‘stan countries, Malaysia( mainly mooching off Chinese and Tamils but ok ) etc.

Otherwise Momins are stuck in an eternal cycle of looting their subjects, violence and proving their group to be Tr00 musl1ms compared to the other group also wanting to prove the same, all dressed up with their mazhab
The only group worse are the ideological cucks of the west who we generally call the liberandoos and their counterparts in various other non western countries like the sickulars in india.

Atleast at the end of the day ,you must grant that islam has atleast the will to survive and propagate and that it has survived for quite some time.it won't disappear on its own except when some external pressure is applied.

Sickulars,sjws,woke types will literally stagnate in nos and suffer many problems that the ancients did not have culminating in their nation being taken over by the nearest available group who has the virility and will to propagate itself.they are just bench warmers for the next army.
 
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mokoman

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Do we have that capability on our own? Afghan Special Forces are better equipped if not better trained than the Indian Special Forces, their training is different from ours, they know their own way, we know ours.
We train their army officers , saw a news article which mentioned 1000 afghan soldiers trained by us, annually.

Remember seeing a doc on Afghanistan , where a US army officer claims that a big issue with training them is literacy.

They dont have basic reading / writing skills .
 

daya

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I really dont understand whats the logic behind this. Either finish them once and for all and take back PoK or call in peace. This kind of limited skirmishes are a waste of the precious lives of our bravehearts as well as our defence budget and gets us nowhere? Whats the strategic objective out of all this?
We can take back PoK within a week if we utilize even 30-40% of our force.
Yes, you are right. Actually, we don't have any mature policy to counter such situation.
 

Killbot

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What's your reasoning behind that genius comment? I am literally curious seriously.
These guys were trained by Green Berets initially and then ST6. They've been conducting night raids on a regular basis for over a decade now. These are direct action raids. On the scale of OBL raid, minus the pakistani airspace factor. But they operate in Taliban territory. Talis have brought ST6 choppers multiple times before. So just as dangerous as OBL raid. And coming to the raid itself, it is always going to be dangerous as hell, as commanders in Afghanistan have well trained guards in the dozens. The objective is to capture HVTs. They've been very successful off late, even though Americans don't assist them anymore.

The largest operation by Indian SF, on the other hand, has been 2016 LoC strike. It had its fair share of dangers, but not even close to what ANA/NDS SF guys face in Taliban controlled territory. Their experience in such operations can prove invaluable to Para, who might/might not need to conduct such operations in Gilgit Baltistan. Especially night operations. Para SF night fighting capability has been abysmal for a long time. It is probably improving now, but I don't know. But we do have units capable of the same in India. Within RAW. Para can be trained by them as well.

My comment was on the post which claimed that Afghan SF needed training from Para. They most certainly do not. Recognizing our own weaknesses is extremely important if we want to get better.
 
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