India opens bids in $10.4-bn combat plane tender.

[Param]

Whole thing started when you said India should mass produce LCA.

To replace mig21s for a decade or 15 years before Pakfa is inducted in huge numbers.

We don't need all of our aircraft to be top of the line. Just better than what the enemies have in the foreseeable future.

MMRCA's RCS is not that high.

That does not make it stealthy

100 million for new batch of Su.

We' probably know the true specifications when they arrive.

 

[plugwater]

To replace mig21s for a decade or 15 years before Pakfa is inducted in huge numbers.

We don't need all of our aircraft to be top of the line. Just better than what the enemies have in the foreseeable future.

LCA ain't better than our enemy aircrafts. Replacing migs is a slow process. No point in inducting lower generation aircrafts.

That does not make it stealthy

Define stealth ?

We' probably know the true specifications when they arrive.

We probably never.

 

[Param]

LCA ain't better than our enemy aircrafts. Replacing migs is a slow process. No point in inducting lower generation aircrafts.

Is it OK to induct lower gen Rafale of EF when inducting 5th gen Pakfa?

Define stealth ?

I'm no expert but i do know that J20 will have lower RCS than EF or Rafale. And of course J20 will aso have internal weapons bays.
So in relation toJ20 mmrca will be non stealth.

We probably never.

We will eventually when we get better planes.

 

[plugwater]

Is it OK to induct lower gen Rafale of EF when inducting 5th gen Pakfa?

4.5 and 5 gen ACs, you are talking about 3.5 gen AC.

I'm no expert but i do know that J20 will have lower RCS than EF or Rafale. And of course J20 will aso have internal weapons bays.
So in relation toJ20 mmrca will be non stealth.

Prototypes of J20 are without weapon bays and they are still a long to make a stealthy jet. I hope J20's rcs is lower than EF

We will eventually when we get better planes.

lets see.

 

[agentperry]

if you people dont know the pace of mig phasing out then let me tell you that apart from all the mig-21 crashed, 17 mig-21 were retired too

 

[mahesh]

LCA mk2 after 2017 only.

Kaveri is as good as dead.

what is wrong with kaveri engine, is it not giving out enough thrust ? why don't we have proper technology? i heard some foreign co. helped developing kaveri, didn't it yield proper results ?

 

[anoop_mig25]

when is this thread tilte going to change form "india opens " to "india awards"

 

[Koovie]

when is this thread tilte going to change form "india opens " to "india awards"

should be a matter of days or perhaps hours

 

[plugwater]

what is wrong with kaveri engine, is it not giving out enough thrust ? why don't we have proper technology? i heard some foreign co. helped developing kaveri, didn't it yield proper results ?

Everything is wrong with Kaveri, blame GTRE for that.

Yes, talks have been going on between Snecma and India about a JV for making a new engine for MCA.

 

[p2prada]

We are quite certain the Gripen NG is not as capable as the Rafale or EF-2000. Looking at Swiss reports we know that.

Looking at Danish reports the Rafale is just 2% inferior to the F-35 during technical evaluations and EF coming third. SH, F-16Block 60, Gripen NG were vastly inferior to the top 3 and all 3 had secured similar points. The F-16 MLU(some with Pakistan) is a capable as the current version of Gripen as is the Block 50 F-16.



We know for sure the Mirage-2000 upgrade being done will increase it's capability to that of the F-16 MLU, and we also know for sure the LCA Mk1 is currently more advanced than the old Mirage-2000 model but will be less advanced once MLUs are done to M-2000. Even if we consider the LCA Mk2 to be as advanced as the Gripen NG, which is subjective, it will be nowhere close to Rafale or EF in technical specs.

 

[Tolaha]

should be a matter of days or perhaps hours

It better be! There was a point in time when any talk about LCA and MMRCA would freak me out... simply because there is so much talk.

I just hope that we award this to someone soon and move on to different topics to discuss/shred/fight/etc!

 

[Tolaha]

Everything is wrong with Kaveri, blame GTRE for that.

Yes, talks have been going on between Snecma and India about a JV for making a new engine for MCA.

While the GTRE prefers to blame the "Mishra Dhatu Nigam" (Midhani) for that!

 

[tony4562]

4.5 and 5 gen ACs, you are talking about 3.5 gen AC.



Prototypes of J20 are without weapon bays and they are still a long to make a stealthy jet. I hope J20's rcs is lower than EF



lets see.

J20 does have weapon bays, not 1 but 3 of them. The first pictures of J20 were blurry, so people thought J20 didn't have any weapon bays..

J20 opens its weapon bays

 

[Tolaha]

J20 does have weapon bays, not 1 but 3 of them. The first pictures of J20 were blurry, so people thought J20 didn't have any weapon bays..

J20 opens its weapon bays

At 01:31, is that the sound of the weapons door opening !!!?

 

[DMF]

Still fishing,the tender is always open, but the winner will be india only

 

[arundo]

Looking at Danish reports the Rafale is just 2% inferior to the F-35 during technical evaluations and EF coming third. SH, F-16Block 60, Gripen NG were vastly inferior to the top 3 and all 3 had secured similar points. The F-16 MLU(some with Pakistan) is a capable as the current version of Gripen as is the Block 50 F-16.

Thank you for that chart. According to the language it should be the Dutch report summary.. I just knew that JSF won by a narrow margin vs. Rafale and with a greater edge over EF, but I did not know about the Gripen and the US fighter performances which were far behind.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Eagerly waiting for the results and Induction of these 4++ gen fighters..

 

[p2prada]

Thank you for that chart. According to the language it should be the Dutch report summary.. I just knew that JSF won by a narrow margin vs. Rafale and with a greater edge over EF, but I did not know about the Gripen and the US fighter performances which were far behind.

The Americans and Russians were trying to stuff crap down our throats. Lucky for us unlike the Swiss the IAF got to chose the 2 best aircraft before the Ministry gets to chose the cheapest.

However all 6 aircraft including Gripen and Mig-35 are superior to anything we have right now including the MKIs. They are more up to date unlike MKI which was configured in 1996 and has seen only piecemeal upgrades since.

IN is awaiting clearance of a 65000 ton carrier from MoD which would mean induction near 2020. IN has shown a lot of interest in the Rafale and a passing interest in the F-35. Meaning they want the Rafale, but wouldn't mind the F-35 either. So, the IAF MRCA deal would be quite crucial for Dassault or EADS to compete in the IN tender as well. The winner for IAF tender will have it a lot easier for IN tender because ToT and industrial offsets would be more easily accomplished. That's two birds with one stone.

 

[nrj]

Something tells me that MKI numbers will further increase if MRCAs restricted at 126.

 

[p2prada]

Something tells me that MKI numbers will further increase if MRCAs restricted at 126.

Don't believe it will. MRCA is very crucial and the IAF will exercise the follow on offer unless FGFA is simply too good comparatively.

MKI production has been delayed by a year, so the final lot of 42 aircraft will be delivered only by 2019, by HAL. It conflicts with Su-50 induction. The Russians have pending deliveries to Malaysia, Algeria, and Vietnam. Other than that they may receive orders from their own air force for the MKI and they have started production for Su-35 anyway.

Comparatively while MKI production ends and Su-50 starts, we can say the MRCA production will happen in parallel. So, we are adding one squadron of Su-50(may be more than one) and a squadron of MRCA every year. At the same time there is the LCA Mk2 production that will go on at a similar rate as MRCA. We will have 3 production lines for advanced aircraft by then, no point keeping a 4th open at the same time.

Starting Su-50 production would mean we are adding a superior aircraft instead of an inferior one as the MKI. So, capping MRCA numbers wouldn't mean increasing orders for MKI. Instead there may be an increase in orders for the Su-50. By then we may even know the progress of AMCA which will already be under flight tests. Why settle for less?