India opens bids in $10.4-bn combat plane tender.

The final call! Show your support. Who do you think should Win?

  • Eurofighter Typhoon

    Votes: 66 51.2%
  • Dassault Rafale

    Votes: 63 48.8%

  • Total voters
    129
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LurkerBaba

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We will get Pakfa same time as RuAF. Last i heard LCA is delayed till 2014. Can you tell that for sure we will get LCA by then ? I doubt so!
You sure about that ? The Vikramaditya+Chakra fiasco gives me a pessimistic figure of 2020+
 

Param

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They are old aircrafts, you cant just dump every one of them into museums!! See the aircrafts IAF inducting and going to induct, LCA stands no chance against them.
Are we going to fight Pakistani or Chinese rafales? We don't need an over kill w.r.t those two countries.


We will get Pakfa same time as RuAF. Last i heard LCA is delayed till 2014. Can you tell that for sure we will get LCA by then ? I doubt so!
The delay is deliberate. When there is absolute hate for country made equipment in some quarters for various reasons what should one expect?
Arjun and LCA are the best examples.
 

agentperry

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everytime IAF chief see lca with ge engine, marut buzz his control tower. and then lca file is burned leading to more delays
 

Param

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LCA mk2 after 2017 only.

Kaveri is as good as dead.
No it is not yet. There is an attempt to kill it.Some MMRCA people want to be party to the murder with incompetent top bosses of DODO.
 

LurkerBaba

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The delay is deliberate. When there is absolute hate for country made equipment in some quarters for various reasons what should one expect?
Arjun and LCA are the best examples.
+1
There has been a lot of debate on this topic by us "armchair generals". But, recently I was reading some article by Bharat Karnad, he had exactly the same view i.e the Air Force hates indigenous equipment
 

plugwater

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Are we going to fight Pakistani or Chinese rafales? We don't need an over kill w.r.t those two countries.
Paf is no joke, they have F-16s. We are still a long way to go to catch up with Chinese. So definitely not an over kill.

The delay is deliberate. When there is absolute hate for country made equipment in some quarters for various reasons what should one expect?
Arjun and LCA are the best examples.
Absolutely wrong.
 

plugwater

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No it is not yet. There is an attempt to kill it.Some MMRCA people want to be party to the murder with incompetent top bosses of DODO.
Yes, it is. If not then tell me what is the future of Kaveri ?
 

Galaxy

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1st squadron of Su 30 MKI Super in 2017.
1st squadron of Tejas MK2 in 2017.
1st squadron of MMRCA ( by HAL) in 2017.
1st squadron of PAK-FA in 2017.

All has common year of 2017 (All data as per official news/trend). :rolleyes:
 

LurkerBaba

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Okay here is one article

Worse, unlike the Indian Navy with its warship directorate, the IAF has no in-house expertise in designing aircraft and never acquired a stake in indigenous manufacture. Indeed, it took perverse pride in stifling Indian aircraft projects just so it could continue to avail of more sophisticated imported warplanes. Thus, for example, the follow-on aircraft to the HF-24 Marut fighter that the famous wartime German Focke-Wulfe designer Kurt Tank originally developed for the IAF in the 1960s, was not allowed to get off the drawing boards. India's first Prime Minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, had obtained the services of Tank a decade earlier in order to seed an aircraft industry in the country. India therefore made do with licensed production of the British Gnat and Jaguar and the Russian MiG-21, MiG-27, and MiG-29. However, because the supplier countries never provided source codes, etc., no real design-to-delivery capability evolved in the country. This is important because the MMRCA contract includes transfer of technology and local licensed manufacture which, other than hugely inflating the cost of the deal, will not benefit the country much. If the MMRCA has to be bought, it would be advisable to buy the whole lot of 126 aircraft off the shelf, resulting in heavily discounted unit cost and massive stockpile of spares. It will, moreover, prevent wasteful expenditure on establishing local production facilities which, in turn, will end up coupling the IAF to antique technology well into the future.

No Good Choices for the Indian Air Force | Center for the Advanced Study of India
 

LurkerBaba

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Okay here is one article
Another article by the same guy

The Indian Air Force (IAF), which has scrupulously shied away from developing in-house aircraft design and development skills and competences, values only imported aircraft because, the service brass claim, these are top-of-the-line and reliable. Consequently, it has gone out of its way to stymie indigenous aircraft development programmes. It deliberately killed the Marut-HF-24 Mark II — successor to the Mark I version widely hailed as aerodynamically the best combat aircraft of its time. Created by Kurt Tank, the great German designer of Focke-Wulfe warplanes for the Luftwaffe in the Second World War and hired by Jawaharlal Nehru, the HF-24 programme, had it been nursed to maturity, would have resulted in a flourishing aircraft industry in the country by the 1970s. Learning nothing from that episode, the IAF today is delaying the series production of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). This is so, notwithstanding the fact that, avionics-wise, the LCA is at the 4.5 generation level, more capable than any fighter aircraft currently in the IAF inventory.
TBH, he has criticism for HAL too

Supposed to gain from technology transferred to it, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) is, like the country, a classic under-achiever. Restricting itself to "production engineering", HAL's capability has calcified at the Meccano-type skill sets-level. Meccano was a toy assembly kit available up until the Sixties for seven to 10 year olds who, following simple instructions, could screw this part on to that one and come up with a crane or some such thing! Meccano no more made the child an engineer than licence manufacturing makes HAL an aircraft design and development Company. But, dog in the manger-like, it is permitted to veto technology being transferred by foreign suppliers to private sector companies that are in far better position to speedily absorb and utilise the advanced technologies, something HAL is manifestly incapable of doing. With all the players in the game eager to retain the present arrangement quo, it is little wonder that India gets shafted every time. The onus is on defence minister A.K. Antony to ensure that this doesn't happen ever again and to instruct the PNC accordingly.
http://www.asianage.com/columnists/big-deal-835
 

Param

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Paf is no joke, they have F-16s. We are still a long way to go to catch up with Chinese. So definitely not an over kill.
Yes it is a joke even with our current capabilites. Older F16 A/B will be toast against MKI. The newer Block 52 variants are very few in the PAF inventory and are not superior to MKI.
The Chinese airforce I believe has hundreds of J7 that are Mig21 clones. And there are a few hundred 4gen aircraft that don't come close to MKI.
Maybe future J10 and J11Bs would be advanced but then we will have Super MKI by then.
 

Singh

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Yes it is a joke even with our current capabilites. Older F16 A/B will be toast against MKI. The newer Block 52 variants are very few in the PAF inventory and are not superior to MKI.
The Chinese airforce I believe has hundreds of J7 that are Mig21 clones. And there are a few hundred 4gen aircraft that don't come close to MKI.
Maybe future J10 and J11Bs would be advanced but then we will have Super MKI by then.
On paper IAF can whoop PAF.

However, when IAF has to invade Pakistani airspace then its a different ball game altogether.
 

Galaxy

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No offence, But HAL is a JOKE.

They neither have capability nor have any intention to improve themselves.
 

plugwater

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Yes it is a joke even with our current capabilites. Older F16 A/B will be toast against MKI. The newer Block 52 variants are very few in the PAF inventory and are not superior to MKI.
The Chinese airforce I believe has hundreds of J7 that are Mig21 clones. And there are a few hundred 4gen aircraft that don't come close to MKI.
Maybe future J10 and J11Bs would be advanced but then we will have Super MKI by then.
I am not talking about MKI, Its LCA. what if lca has to face f-16 ? I know which one will get raped. Only with MKI you cant hold much longer against chinese.
 

Param

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I am not talking about MKI, Its LCA. what if lca has to face f-16 ? I know which one will get raped. Only with MKI you cant hold much longer against chinese.
Why will LCA have to face F16? PAF is not just F16, there are plenty of older vareity and the junk Fighter 17.Even Bisons can match the older variety.

MKI alone? What about MiG29 SMT, upgraded Mirage 2005 Mk2?

The Chinese Airforce of today is bit too hyped. EF and Rafale will be an expensive overkill. By 2017 atleast 272 Mki along with the remaining aircraft upgraded, 40 more Mki directly ordered from Russia and few squadrons of LCA will be enough.

by the time MMRCA reaches descent numbers, PLAF will already have inducted J20.
 

plugwater

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Why will LCA have to face F16? PAF is not just F16, there are plenty of older vareity and the junk Fighter 17.Even Bisons can match the older variety.

MKI alone? What about MiG29 SMT, upgraded Mirage 2005 Mk2?

The Chinese Airforce of today is bit too hyped. EF and Rafale will be an expensive overkill. By 2017 atleast 272 Mki along with the remaining aircraft upgraded, 40 more Mki directly ordered from Russia and few squadrons of LCA will be enough.

by the time MMRCA reaches descent numbers, PLAF will already have inducted J20.
In war you dont get to pick which aircraft LCA goes against. If it comes against F-16, game over for LCA.

MMRCA can take on J20, very even fight imo.

We ordered last 40 MKIs for 100 million per plane. So MKI and MMRCA are almost same price.
 

Param

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In war you dont get to pick which aircraft LCA goes against. If it comes against F-16, game over for LCA.
Don't worry most LCA will be stationed either in the south or Central India
MMRCA can take on J20, very even fight imo.
Only if they can see it coming.
We ordered last 40 MKIs for 100 million per plane. So MKI and MMRCA are almost same price.
I thought this 100 million price includes upgrades and modifications in other words Super Mki.
 

plugwater

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Don't worry most LCA will be stationed either in the south or Central India
Whole thing started when you said India should mass produce LCA.

Only if they can see it coming.
MMRCA's RCS is not that high.

I thought this 100 million price includes upgrades and modifications in other words Super Mki.
100 million for new batch of Su.
 
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