India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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Tuco

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But that is the only place where Chinese could have come so close to DSDBO Road. But I agree that a narrow River valley into such deep gorde is no tactical place where enemy can kill you by throwing stones..
Do you think there could have been a compromise in the talks, like allowing them to stay put in Pangong Tso area. I am just speculating.

According to me deescalation can only be meaningful when the area around the lake is restored. Also say if any action takes place and the losses are equal in other two areas Galwan valley would have tipped the numbers and open to revenge attacks by India. This a game of chess phew....
 

garg_bharat

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Great if it works out. But we should not lower our guard even 1%. This is what happened exactly 58 yrs back.
I think it is just a show. Pay attention to infrastructure China is building parallel to LAC and how fast it can deploy forces in the area. I already said India has max 3-4 months.

China is making calculated moves to confuse India's political leaders. The ploy is to put our acquisitions in a state of delay. I hope politicians do not make the mistake and focus fully on acquiring armaments.
 

Defcon 1

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I have been maintaining from very beginning that Chinese had not come to attain any territorial goals but to convey a political massages of various kind. The primary aims appeared to be pulling down Modi Politically which then could address most of the Chinese concerns of India not aligning with USA and quad. Continuity of CPC and India accepting a second rung subordnate position to China in Asia Paecefic.

However one can only plan things and execute those in but can not control the outcome. The torrent of reactions that followed would have called for a course-correction on both sides.
Now a diplomatic engagement is scheduled at SR level, it is necessary to create conducive environment fo the dialogue. However two issues of Pengang Tso and Depsang will be left pending so that deescalation in respect of those is achieved at SR meeting. Well that is how the diplomacy works.

Thank God in this very difficult times India is facing due to COVID-19 some sense prevailed and both sides have decided to look inwards to improve their lots. It is no time for Wars for anyone in the world.

Sri Ram Sri Ram Jai jai Ram... Sarve Sukhuna Santu...
If they don't capture any territory, then it would be good for us. I disagree with lot of people who think we should attack China. There is nothing to gain by attacking. We need to bide our time.

People need to read some history. The 10 years rule to UPA government left Indian armed forced with obsolete equipment. Once the NDA government came to power, they tried to re-arm in fits and starts but the re-arming goal co-incided with a need to compress our fiscal deficit, the deficit which was increased due to stimulus provided by finance minister P Chidambram after the Rupee crash of 2013.

However due to its own social agenda, such as Ujjwala yojna, UDAY, Ayushman Bharat, Swachh Bharat, etc, lack of enough reforms and shocks like demonitization, the NDA government wasn't also able to achieve as much fiscal consolidation as they would have wanted and thus began to compress the only expenditure which could be touched without introducing political costs, i.e. the defence budget. The defence budget has thus fallen to historic lows during the last 6 years.

And after all of this, came COVID-19 and destroyed the economy which was just beginning to stand back on its feet. We are probably at our weakest in many years economically. But the future is bright. Even before Covid and making the entire world their enemy, the Chinese were seeing a decline in economic growth due to higher wages, while India still has a large workforce to take up manufacturing jobs coming out of China. Due to covid, as a decoupling of Chinese economy with West starts, India would be a natural gainer as the western funds with excess money will find India a very lucrative market to invest. Once the economy gets back on track, the large amount of indigenous equipment which has been cleared by DAC will be finally ordered and Indian military will see rapid modernization. We will grow stronger with every passing year. A disengagement without any territory loss will mean more time to fight China tomorrow and this is the best endgame we should hope for.
 

fire starter

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If they don't capture any territory, then it would be good for us. I disagree with lot of people who think we should attack China. There is nothing to gain by attacking. We need to bide our time.

People need to read some history. The 10 years rule to UPA government left Indian armed forced with obsolete equipment. Once the NDA government came to power, they tried to re-arm in fits and starts but the re-arming goal co-incided with a need to compress our fiscal deficit, the deficit which was increased due to stimulus provided by finance minister P Chidambram after the Rupee crash of 2013.

However due to its own social agenda, such as Ujjwala yojna, UDAY, Ayushman Bharat, Swachh Bharat, etc, lack of enough reforms and shocks like demonitization, the NDA government wasn't also able to achieve as much fiscal consolidation as they would have wanted and thus began to compress the only expenditure which could be touched without introducing political costs, i.e. the defence budget. The defence budget has thus fallen to historic lows during the last 6 years.

And after all of this, came COVID-19 and destroyed the economy which was just beginning to stand back on its feet. We are probably at our weakest in many years economically. But the future is bright. Even before Covid and making the entire world their enemy, the Chinese were seeing a decline in economic growth due to higher wages, while India still has a large workforce to take up manufacturing jobs coming out of China. Due to covid, as a decoupling of Chinese economy with West starts, India would be a natural gainer as the western funds with excess money will find India a very lucrative market to invest. Once the economy gets back on track, the large amount of indigenous equipment which has been cleared by DAC will be finally ordered and Indian military will see rapid modernization. We will grow stronger with every passing year. A disengagement without any territory loss should be the best endgame we should hope for.
you forgot to include one more point BABUDOM unless we sort it out our procurement process will always be fucked up.
 

ninja hattori

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China doubles down on claims on eastern Bhutan boundary

1. there has been no mention of eastern Bhutan, or Trashigang Dzongkhag (district), where Sakteng is based, that borders Arunachal Pradesh, in 24 previous rounds of boundary negotiations held between the two countries, between 1984 and 2016.


China doubles down on claims on eastern Bhutan boundary - The Hindu

2, the talks have been about three specific areas, including Jakarlung and Pasamlung in the north, and the Chumbi Valley, where Doklam is situated, in west Bhutan.

In Bhutan too, Chinese grab land - Indian Defence Review


China doubles down on claims on eastern Bhutan boundary - The Hindu
 
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Bhadra

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Burma grows some balls unlike Chinese Pakistan and Chinese Nepal. India should grab the chance as Burma asks for International cooperation! may be Burma is already in touch with us as we have the BEST experience in counter insurgency operations! :wink:


Myanmar, China’s closest ally in southeast Asia, has pointed fingers at Beijing for arming insurgent groups with sophisticated weapons and sought international cooperation to suppress rebel groups. In a recent interview to Russian state-run TV channel Zvezda, Myanmar’s Senior General Min Aung Hlaing said terrorist organisations active in Myanmar are backed by ‘strong forces’ and sought international cooperation to suppress rebel groups.

The reference to ‘strong forces’ was widely seen to be a reference to Myanmar’s neighbour in the north, China. Myanmar military spokesperson Brigadier General Zaw Min Tun later elaborated on the comment made by the Commander-in-Chief of Myanmar’s armed forces. The spokesperson said the army chief was referring to Arakan Army (AA) and Arakan Rohingya Salvation Army (ARSA), terrorist organisations active in the Rakhine State in western Myanmar that borders China.

A ‘foreign country’ is behind the Arakan Army (AA), he said, citing China-made weapons that terror group used in mine attacks on the military in 2019.

It is unusual for the Myanmar leadership to point fingers at China. But this isn’t the first time that Naypyitaw had alluded to the Chinese connection.

When the Myanmar military busted a huge cache of weapons including surface-to-air missiles - each costing between USD 70,000 and 90,000 - from the banned Ta’ang National Liberation Army in November 2019, the military had underlined the Chinese connection to the weapons. Most of the weapons seized by the force are “Chinese weapons,” military spokesperson Major General Tun Tun Nyi had declared.

The Myanmarese ethnic rebel groups operating along the Chinese border mostly use Chinese weapons, prompting suspicions about Beijing’s role as part of an effort to keep Myanmar under control

China, for the record, denies that it supplies weapons to armed rebel groups in Myanmar but such denials are often treated with scepticism in Myanmar.

Senior General Hlaing had flagged Myanmar’s concerns around these weapons when he hosted Chinese President Xi Jinping in January this year. Xi then promised that China would “carefully scrutinise” matters and “solve the problem”, pointing that there were other ways for the rebels to acquire Chinese weapons.

Xi’s suggestion was seen in Myanmar as part of an elaborate exercise by China to keep its smaller neighbour “unstable”. There has been a view in Naypyitaw that China was using its influence with the terror groups as a bargaining chip for smooth implementation of Belt and Road Initiative projects.


Officials say Beijing has been desperate to push the China-Myanmar Economic Corridor that seeks to give China a strategic opening on to the Bay of Bengal and eastern part of Indian Ocean Region. There has also been some concern around the Chinese loans extended to execute these projects that led to worries that Myanmar shouldn’t land in China’s debt trap.
We should not hesitate in deploying one Army Divisions and ten battalions of Assam Rifles in Rahine state of Myanmar bordering Chttagong and Manipur if Myanmar so desires. Or these chaps are going to threaten our Moreh -yangoon Raod..
 

Defcon 1

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you forgot to include one more point BABUDOM unless we sort it out our procurement process will always be fucked up.
True. Its diappointing that after rolling out two DPP and one DPrP, the NDA government hasn't been able to find a way to close procurements quickly. It is still too little and too late.
 

Bhadra

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Do you think there could have been a compromise in the talks, like allowing them to stay put in Pangong Tso area. I am just speculating.

According to me deescalation can only be meaningful when the area around the lake is restored. Also say if any action takes place and the losses are equal in other two areas Galwan valley would have tipped the numbers and open to revenge attacks by India. This a game of chess phew....
The problem of Pengang Tso needs to be seen in correct perspective.

Chinese will agree to pull back and bring down structures they build post Apr 2020at various places including on Fingers up slopes. But not post 1999.

They are there at Finger4 since 1999 having a built a raod there... so it is difficult now...

Fingers hawa has been created by that willy Ajay Shukla and Panag... paininting it as intrusion post Apr 2004.

However the Chinese may agree to allow us to patrol (only patrol) till Finger8. Will that make any difference ?? The first partol to Fingr8 must be lead by Gen Panag and last man of the patrol should be Ajay Shukla as a gift to the Chinese..
 
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Shashank Nayak

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We should not hesitate in deploying one Army Divisions and ten battalions of Assam Rifles in Rahine state of Myanmar bordering Chttagong and Manipur if Myanmar so desires. Or these chaps are going to threaten our Moreh -yangoon Raod..
Any indication of India agreeing to stopping infrastructure build up in ladakh.. The alternate route to Sub sector north along Sasoma-Saser La road axis.. will work stop ?
 

johnq

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The pullback is a trick of the Chinese. They lull the Indian army into false sense of security, then invade 5km in, then pull back 1-2 km. Indian army should not agree to any agreements and should stay put, otherwise they are conceding several km of territory to Chinese who have built permanent reinforced bunkers several km into Indian territory at many locations. Unless the Chinese willingly retreat to their positions of last year after destroying their permanent bunkers on Indian territory, it is a massive gain of strategic territory for them without firing a shot. Also they may have created an alternative route to the Indian road via tunnels, and they need the Indian troops to disengage their troops at the river so they can move them via alternative route. I would not trust the Chinese at all. You don't bring such a massive force to the border without the intention of war. History is replete with examples of soldiers bleeding to protect the land, and the beaurocrats gambling it away. I hope India doesn't repeat the same mistake.
 

TheMayank

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Disengagement of Chinese troops is being monitored by the Indian side at all four friction points including the PP-14 (Galwan river valley), PP-15, Hot Springs and Finger area. The extent of withdrawal is varied at different locations: Sources
 

Bhadra

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Any indication of India agreeing to stopping infrastructure build up in ladakh.. The alternate route to Sub sector north along Sasoma-Saser La road axis.. will work stop ?
The work has accelerated rather than slow... The Sasoma Raod so far is only summer route unless they tunnel it at various location specially Khardung La,

In the Infrastructure development Manali - Rohatang Road and a news road alignment Manli - Rupsi which will be all weather double lane raod will be key raod... Future of Ladakh lies with Manali rather than Srinagar..
 
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