India-China Border conflict

[maximus777]

As per this embedded documentary, a plant in China reportedly can mfg components for 1000 Cruise Missiles per day if it's run 24x7.

How many missiles does it take to shred this one?

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

 

[SUPERPOWER]

Om Shanti

 

[Jimih]

Temperature related.

 

[Azaad]

How many missiles does it take to shred this one?

Ask yourself how many such missiles do we have for tactical usage meaning missiles with a conventional warhead & then compare them to the inventory the Chinese possess. You may also want to consider the fact that we don't have a doctrine of using strategic missiles for tactical purposes which means all our > 500 km + range missiles are with the SFC - the Strategic Forces Command in charge of our N inventory.

Why so ? Good question. Apparently our "strategic thinkers" believe firing any such missiles with a conventional warhead onto our neighbours would trigger the misunderstanding that we've launched a N attack. And by neighbours I mean Paxtan exclusively. Up until 2020 we didn't even have a doctrine with respect to China.

That's precisely why we didn't go in for operationalising TBMs like Pralay , Prahar etc for a long time in spite of having developed the tech nearly 2 decades ago.

 

[Jimih]

Ask yourself how many such missiles do we have for tactical usage?

That's precisely why we didn't go in for operationalising TBMs like Pralay , Prahar etc

Pralay will serve as a Tactical missile.

Have to pump up the numbers though.

 

[Azaad]

Pralay will serve as a Tactical missile.

Have to pump up the numbers though.

View attachment 247058

Tell me you didn't read the post in full without telling me you didn't read the post in full.

That's precisely why we didn't go in for operationalising TBMs like Pralay , Prahar etc for a long time in spite of having developed the tech nearly 2 decades ago.

 

[Azaad]

Looks more like propaganda .. There will be material constraints.. Especially during a war, when enemies will choke China trade through the first Island chain..

China doesn't depend on external sources for its defence needs unlike us though having said that there's definitely an element of exaggeration there .

However even if we consider China can't produce components for 1000 missiles in a day but can do it for 500 nos I fail to see how does it make our lives easier.

They're gearing up for a war time economy while we're in la la land . For more perspective check on what our production plans for Nirbhay are or how many CMs can Brahmos mfg in a year since we're restricting our discussion to CMs.

 

[Master Chief]

China doesn't depend on external sources for its defence needs unlike us though having said that there's definitely an element of exaggeration there .

However even if we consider China can't produce components for 1000 missiles in a day but can do it for 500 nos I fail to see how does it make our lives easier.

They're gearing up for a war time economy while we're in la la land . For more perspective check on what our production plans for Nirbhay are or how many CMs can Brahmos mfg in a year since we're restricting our discussion to CMs.

I agree with you about India being unprepared.
But, I was not talking about their MIC being mostly indigenous.. I was talking about raw material constraints imposed on China by a first Island chain blockade by the US - JAPANESE navies.. Anyway, doesn't matter in a India China war, as Indian Navy is not capable of comprehensively blocking the first Island chain.

 

[Azaad]

I agree with you about India being unprepared.
But, I was not talking about their MIC being mostly indigenous.. I was talking about raw material constraints imposed on China by a first Island chain blockade by the US - JAPANESE navies.. Anyway, doesn't matter in a India China war, as Indian Navy is not capable of comprehensively blocking the first Island chain.

Frankly they've reached a stage where none of their raw materials or components for their defence needs are imported.

This also extends to their Oil & Natural Gas needs for by 2030 they'd probably be the first nation to achieve near 100% EV in automobiles.

Further China produces nearly 20-25% of their Oil domestically. Expect whatever is to happen post 2027-28 when their armed forces modernisation is expected to be completed & issues related to their theatre commands are expected to be completed by then .

 

[Master Chief]

Frankly they've reached a stage where none of their raw materials or components for their defence needs are imported.

This also extends to their Oil & Natural Gas needs for by 2030 they'd probably be the first nation to achieve near 100% EV in automobiles.

Further China produces nearly 20-25% of their Oil domestically. Expect whatever is to happen post 2027-28 when their armed forces modernisation is expected to be completed & issues related to their theatre commands are expected to be completed by then .

You know that raw materials are limited right.. Most raw materials are available in decent quantities in most big countries doesn't mean that you can run a China sized economy at the same time as ramping up war production.. Access to sea borne trade makes a lot of difference.. It made a big difference to the Soviets and British [in a positive way ] and once US Navy dominated and suppressed the German Navy during the latter part of WW2, lack of access to sea routes was very negative for German War making abilities..

 

[Zoid Raptor]

 

[Azaad]

You know that raw materials are limited right.. Most raw materials are available in decent quantities in most big countries doesn't mean that you can run a China sized economy at the same time as ramping up war production.. Access to sea borne trade makes a lot of difference.. It made a big difference to the Soviets and British [in a positive way ] and once US Navy dominated and suppressed the German Navy during the latter part of WW2, lack of access to sea routes was very negative for German War making abilities..

I think you're confusing a war time economy to the economic conditions as they exist in normal times like we have now . In a war time economy trade is the first casualty & frankly it's not even a priority for the economy in a war is simply geared up to producing what's essential to sustain a war time economy namely war fighting equipment & material , essential commodities & products required for every day usage in only so much quantities as is required which is another way of saying it is rationed.

Germany was & is an energy starved country in ways that China isn't planning to be once it embarks on its war campaign. Which is why I made it a point to highlight a few points namely - that they'd commence their campaign only subject to meeting certain conditions which is they aren't dependent on Oil & NG imports for which near 100% migration to EVs is essential .

They're due to accomplish it by 2030 . Whatever O&NG is required for other activities especially war fighting & civil aviation would be stocked up in their strategic reserves far in advance , rationed & reliance henceforth would then be only on domestic production. The same would be the case for raw materials.

Btw China IS the largest producer apart from consumer of rare earths material . Their steel production & consumption during a war time economy would be mostly limited to meeting their war fighting needs. And on & on ...

 

[Master Chief]

I think you're confusing a war time economy to the economic conditions as they exist in normal times like we have now . In a war time economy trade is the first casualty & frankly it's not even a priority for the economy in a war is simply geared up to producing what's essential to sustain a war time economy namely war fighting equipment & material , essential commodities & products required for every day usage in only so much quantities as is required which is another way of saying it is rationed.

Germany was & is an energy starved country in ways that China isn't planning to be once it embarks on its war campaign. Which is why I made it a point to highlight a few points namely - that they'd commence their campaign only subject to meeting certain conditions which is they aren't dependent on Oil & NG imports for which near 100% migration to EVs is essential .

They're due to accomplish it by 2030 . Whatever O&NG is required for other activities especially war fighting & civil aviation would be stocked up in their strategic reserves far in advance , rationed & reliance henceforth would then be only on domestic production. The same would be the case for raw materials.

Btw China IS the largest producer apart from consumer of rare earths material . Their steel production & consumption during a war time economy would be mostly limited to meeting their war fighting needs. And on & on ...

You are talking Total war Here... It would involve a hell lot of sacrifices from the average Chinese.. A place even Putin is afraid to tread.. But yes.. Great power war will essentially morph into an existential war and hence a total war as WW1 and WW2 have shown.. But, even then, China's inherent geographic weakness w.r.t ocean access, will compound their troubles in a years' long Great power attrition war.. US and India are blessed by Geography in that sense..

 

[Azaad]

You are talking Total war Here... It would involve a hell lot of sacrifices from the average Chinese.. A place even Putin is afraid to tread.. But yes.. Great power war will essentially morph into an existential war and hence a total war as WW1 and WW2 have shown.. But, even then, China's inherent geographic weakness w.r.t ocean access, will compound their troubles in a years' long Great power attrition war.. US and India are blessed by Geography in that sense..

If the CCP makes a move on Taiwan it's going to be a great war or whatever nomenclature you wish to attach to it. Both the US & its allies as well as China are aware of it & are preparing accordingly.

Putin isn't going down that way for he's confronting a proxy. Proxy wars of the kind we're seeing in Ukraine is not a new phenomen. The US faced it in Vietnam, the former USSR in Afghanistan , etc.

None of the principals then chose to expand the envelope of conflict by dragging in the sponsors of the proxy into open conflict. Neither will Putin, though he'd make noises like he's going to.

The key to fighting a proxy war is to find another proxy who'd engage your foe the way the latter has sponsored the proxy to engage you. Hence Russia's support to Iran China & DPRK.

In any case China's doom is a foregone conclusion for the simple reason that they lack a structured alliance system of the kind the US has been able to conjure up though having said that they'd cause enormous damage all around before going down.

 

[Master Chief]

After being called senseless by India, for renaming places in Arunachal.. now ultra mega superpower China being called Shameless by Taiwan

 

[mist_consecutive]

https://indianexpress.com/article/india/sonam-wangchuk-china-border-march-ladakh-internet-speed-curbs-section-144-9253718/

 

[LETHALFORCE]

View attachment 247082

Chinese have a lot of toys but none of the men look like they can fight their way out of a paper bag.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Chinese have a lot of toys but none of the men look like they can fight their way out of a paper bag.

Aren't those in the picture women?

 

[DingDong]

As per this embedded documentary, a plant in China reportedly can mfg components for 1000 Cruise Missiles per day if it's run 24x7.

Most of the countries under-report their strategic capabilities. Chinese are just built differently.