India-China Border conflict

[Compersion]

Since when is Om Mani Padme Hun a mantra from Sanatan Dharma ? Are you confusing Buddhism especially esoteric Tantric Buddhism which is Tibetan Buddhism to Sanatan Dharma ? Besides Burma has always been Buddhist with strong Hindu influences not the other way around. Ditto for Thailand.

Nations today where sects of Sanatan Dharma thrived were Indonesia , Malaysia , Western Philippines , Cambodia , South Vietnam & Laos to an extent before they were supplanted by Buddhism. Angkor Wat provides the clearest example of the latter .

Appreciate you replying and also respect your expansion on the topic that deserves its seriousness. You do cover a lot but perhaps it is far more wider and deeper to what you say.

Lets also not forget the Communist Chinese always have a proud (like Panda sovereignty - that only ailuropoda melanoleuca can be born Chinese - not even runaway ones) saying that the "chinese" language can be read by all but spoken differently - Cantonese to Mandarin etc. very touchy on how the language is read.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logogram

Like you have used many many many items and allowed the reader to go and read about it and increase the scope -> why Sanskrit.

Lets make it simple and say loudly perhaps one can say that the decline of Buddhism in the Indian subcontinent coincides with the spread of Islam? Is that right ?

on topic of chinese language - why have chinese in such a temple ? wherever it is ... perhaps its buddhism.

Its too easy man ... too easy : )

 

[Azaad]

Appreciate you replying and also respect your expansion on the topic that deserves its seriousness. You do cover a lot but perhaps it is far more wider and deeper to what you say.

Lets also not forget the Communist Chinese always have a proud (like Panda sovereignty - that only ailuropoda melanoleuca can be born Chinese - not even runaway ones) saying that the "chinese" language can be read by all but spoken differently - Cantonese to Mandarin etc. very touchy on how the language is read.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logogram

Like you have used many many many items and allowed the reader to go and read about it and increase the scope -> why Sanskrit.

Lets make it simple and say loudly perhaps one can say that the decline of Buddhism in the Indian subcontinent coincides with the spread of Islam? Is that right ?

on topic of chinese language - why have chinese in such a temple ? wherever it is ... perhaps its buddhism.

Its too easy man ... too easy : )

And how many such Buddhist temples have you seen with Raja Ravi Varma calendar art in SE Asia or E Asia ( Tibetan monasteries or temples in India don't count ) ?

While you're at it , pls also consider this -

Trailokyavijaya: The God that Buddhists depict as stepping on Shiva’s head and Parvati’s Chest

Trailokyavijaya was derived from the Hindu bhagwan Tripurantaka, which is a manifestation of the Hindu bhagwan Shiva.

tfipost.com

 

[FireStar]

 

[mokoman]

meh but posting since this thread is dying.


everyone forgot about LAC , even prawns swamy forgot what india-china looks like - posting nonsense now.

 

[Varoon2]

Lets make it simple and say loudly perhaps one can say that the decline of Buddhism in the Indian subcontinent coincides with the spread of Islam? Is that right ?

The virtual eradication of Buddhism from the subcontinent is attributable to Islam. Though there is a small, vocal tribe of historians( eg D.N Jha) who would like to blame Hinduism for its disappearance. But even these historians would have an enormously difficult time proving that Hindus wiped out Buddhism from Afghanistan, Central Asia and West Asia. What can be said with some veracity is that beginning with the philosopher Shankara in the 8th century, many Buddhists returned to the Hindu fold, and Buddha himself was now accepted as an avatar of Vishnu. There was no violence, or very negligible violence, involved in this process.

 

[Varoon2]

China never claimed the whole of Ladakh, even at the height of the Sino-Indian war in 1962, and for decades after that. So by "western border of Ladakh" I hope they mean the current line of demarcation, which India doesn't accept as a permanent arrangement, though India is not aggressively demanding that the border go all the way to the eastern extremities. But if the China actually mean the current area of Ladakh as part of Kashmir and India, they are off their rocker.

 

[Master Chief]

China never claimed the whole of Ladakh, even at the height of the Sino-Indian war in 1962, and for decades after that. So by "western border of Ladakh" I hope they mean the current line of demarcation, which India doesn't accept as a permanent arrangement, though India is not aggressively demanding that the border go all the way to the eastern extremities. But if the China actually mean the current area of Ladakh as part of Kashmir and India, they are off their rocker.

It's actually very funny.. It was a master stroke by Modi Government..
Every time there was any problem in JandK or Ladakh with Pakistan, China would preach both conveying a sense of fake neutrality.. China does not recognize the Ladakh border as part of China India border. Hence, China says.. Indo China border is 2000 odd kilometers and not 3500 km .. By creating the Ladakh Union territory, Modi forced China to do away with fake neutrality, and acknowledge the Ladakh Border issue openly.. Now, China must deal with India, or attack and try to capture the Indian part of Ladakh (if it deems it as part of China, just like Arunachal) .. That is why the Chinks are so angry... Their pawn Pakistan is no longer able to deter India, and the master has been forced to come out in the open..

Also, Parveen Swiney, was saying that Modi would not be able to handle the pressure from Galactic superpower China, and would undo Ladakh Union territory decision of 2019, via Supreme Court.. Well, Supreme Court just made the decision permanent..

 

[Blademaster]

Since China has declared Ladakh as to be Chinese territory, it is time for India to pull the gloves off its hands and declare Chinese occupation of Tibet to be unlawful and impair the sovereignty of an independent nation and declare Tibet to be an independent nation. And also declare Taiwan as a free independent country and is will to provide consular services to Taiwan.

What is the point of playing to Chinese sensitivities? We literally have nothing to lose now. China is massively arming Pakistan even if Pakistan cannot pay for it. China is fomenting anti-India sentiments in Nepal, Bangladesh, Burma and even in NE states.

We need to stop being passive and go on the fucking offensive.

 

[DumbPilot]

Since China has declared Ladakh as to be Chinese territory, it is time for India to pull the gloves off its hands and declare Chinese occupation of Tibet to be unlawful and impair the sovereignty of an independent nation and declare Tibet to be an independent nation. And also declare Taiwan as a free independent country and is will to provide consular services to Taiwan.

What is the point of playing to Chinese sensitivities? We literally have nothing to lose now. China is massively arming Pakistan even if Pakistan cannot pay for it. China is fomenting anti-India sentiments in Nepal, Bangladesh, Burma and even in NE states.

We need to stop being passive and go on the fucking offensive.

 

[Blademaster]

View attachment 232952

Again what do we have to lose? We will be erasing our deficit once China stops all trade with us.

 

[Kumaoni]

Since China has declared Ladakh as to be Chinese territory, it is time for India to pull the gloves off its hands and declare Chinese occupation of Tibet to be unlawful and impair the sovereignty of an independent nation and declare Tibet to be an independent nation. And also declare Taiwan as a free independent country and is will to provide consular services to Taiwan.

What is the point of playing to Chinese sensitivities? We literally have nothing to lose now. China is massively arming Pakistan even if Pakistan cannot pay for it. China is fomenting anti-India sentiments in Nepal, Bangladesh, Burma and even in NE states.

We need to stop being passive and go on the fucking offensive.

China is an imperialist land which suffers from a severe inferiority complex as a result of having a period in life where pretty much every single race in the 1800s.

Trying to reason with them would be as foolish as trying to reason with hitler to stop invading russia or europe.

And tbh, China is also occupying Manchu Lands, Uyghur Lands asides from tibet, and is currently bullying south east asia in the south china sea, while trying to intimidate a far smaller taiwan.

 

[Blademaster]

China is an imperialist land which suffers from a severe inferiority complex as a result of having a period in life where pretty much every single race in the 1800s.

Trying to reason with them would be as foolish as trying to reason with hitler to stop invading russia or europe.

And tbh, China is also occupying Manchu Lands, Uyghur Lands asides from tibet, and is currently bullying south east asia in the south china sea, while trying to intimidate a far smaller taiwan.

There’s no point in reasoning with them. Just tell them that Tibet is a free country and Taiwan is a separate country and that Uighurs deserve their own state. And provide material support.

 

[Kumaoni]

There’s no point in reasoning with them. Just tell them that Tibet is a free country and Taiwan is a separate country and that Uighurs deserve their own state. And provide material support.

I think destabilizing china would be an amazing way to go. Considering the fact that china does this numerous times to India be it the Maoists or the NE. The issue is, China is more unified and has more of a firm control. India due to the iron first the CCP wields. Even if we do fund insurgencies, they will go all out in quelling them, using their air force and commiting huge HRVs.

 

[Blademaster]

I think destabilizing china would be an amazing way to go. Considering the fact that china does this numerous times to India be it the Maoists or the NE. The issue is, China is more unified and has more of a firm control. India due to the iron first the CCP wields. Even if we do fund insurgencies, they will go all out in quelling them, using their air force and commiting huge HRVs.

doesn’t matter if we win or lose. The point is that we send a strong message, a message of deterrence.

 

[Azaad]

 

[Bleh]

meh but posting since this thread is dying.


everyone forgot about LAC , even prawns swamy forgot what india-china looks like - posting nonsense now.

We should arrange a Ladakh Day... When all people is Ladakh film themselves pissing on a Chinese flag.

Maybe a sticker on every urinal?

 

[Indrajit]

Things like this must be compulsory watching . Not enough people watch stuff like this.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Things like this must be compulsory watching . Not enough people watch stuff like this.

Can you shortly summarize in bullet points if possible ?

 

[mokoman]

Can you shortly summarize in bullet points if possible ?

summary

Spoiler

subtitles

Spoiler

hello and welcome to bhat Shakti I'm

ntin gole my special guest today is left

General Raj Shukla uh till very recently

the Army Commander at the army training

command and conceptually and

intellectually one of the thinkers

military thinkers that India has off

late who speaks on various issues which

are the future uh threat and challenges

and of course prospects for India and

Indian military but also someone who

speaks his mind so welcome Raj for this

interaction in fact uh let me start with

uh the uh Global flux that we are uh

looking at right now multiple um you

know threats multiple challenges

multiple conflicts going on what's your

sense are we in midst of some big change

or this is going to be an incremental

kind of conflicts that are happening

right now so so Nan I'll just put some

facts before you as I read them and then

you judge for yourself but I mean I

would say it is far more than a flux if

I may use the term the world is on an

edge it is on a powder keg and let me

explain why sure so you know Walter

russl M very perceptively said that 2014

we entered the pre-war era right and I

was to wonder what does he mean till I

met General Patrick Sanders who had come

for IAC recently yeah and he's also a

very thinking guy Patrick said that we

are the war generation and look at it

now look at the conflicts it seems to be

an unending line Georgia creia nagaro

kabak Koso Iraq Afghanistan Europe

Europe which thought that you know it

Eternal Prosperity is the answer to

everything is its own and it is poor

Africa and Asians who fight correct look

that's what happened there and on issues

which are

Territorial and today it is first World

War I trench warfare so those Squadron

company battles exactly so this is I

mean Walter Russel me was entirely uh

perceptive in terms of this you know

this um uh

war look at what is happening in Taiwan

I am telling you I have concluded that

the Chinese A2 ad has successfully put

the Americans out of the first tent see

just look at this

1996 China acts funny and the aircraft

carrier comes Clinton dispatches it and

China backs off today American Naval

commanders are saying that we our

aircraft carriers have to be, Miles off

it is only the Expendable ships which

will go right and no war has been fought

but China is doing daily military

coercion it seems to be signaling to the

Americans that Retreat to your corner of

the Pacific yes so all this is working

look at American failing deter I mean

people are asking in America now $950

billion 800 bases 11 aircraft carriers

and you losing everywhere and South

China see they have lost in last 10

years Ukraine you have lost with Russia

now mobilizing is Putin going to take

the battle to Ukraine so it's not a

thing to you know feel good about but

it's a fact the failure of American

deterant yeah

one week before 7th October Jake salivan

in a conference I mean one should not

blame him for it anyone would do it but

a fact is this he was asked about the

world he said we have problems elsewhere

but West Asia is taken care of and then

7th October lesson from Israel I mean we

as soldiers we used to you know swear by

Israel technological superpower so the

point is compeny doesn't work the

Americans are failing in their DET look

at see look at the outstretched US

military

[Music]

M their defense strategy very clearly

says China is the pacing threat which

means they should pivot as they

pivot today America is not able to honor

its own commitments to tr $19 billion

kabo so you see this failure of DET you

know Churchill made a good statement he

said that you can either fight two Wars

or win one look at the American dilemma

fight three Wars or win one correct so

American deterence you know is being

seriously challenged look at the some

facts I'll give you mighty America look

at the state of its military industrial

complex sure I'm told there's a report

to suggest that America doesn't have 7

Days of missiles and Munitions to fight

in Taiwan sure for the last 3 years the

US Army and its Marines have missed

their recruiting targets Navy

American 2025 China will have 400 ships

America will have 295 correct look at

how the military balance is changing in

Ukraine the ukrainians were firing

100,000 artillery rounds per week the

West could produce 1 lakh rounds in a

month the shortfall Russia is winning

because of his military General rat May

so rest in peace he used to ask us why

do you need 40i we couldn't explain the

reality seems to be 90i yeah exactly you

know and look at one more warning fact

which n for H makes and I haven't heard

an American response he says today the

American debt is $33 trillion it which

means you need $1 trillion to just for

debt servicing defense $950 billion for

the first time in American history their

debt exceeds their defense budget which

means what they don't have the resources

to reinvigorate the military yes no I I

know from people who actually deal with

these ammunitions and others in the in

the west that their their capacities

have gone down so much so you know

you're right absolutely about you know

declining Admiral paparo the CNC of iong

he says the DF 21s and DF 27s the

missiles of the Chinese have permanently

altered the principles of Naval Warfare

in the western these are carrier Killers

exactly so I mean the point is and see

what if America gets locked out of East

Asia look what happens to us we going to

face unipolar world was bad but unipolar

Asia will be worse unipolar Asia with

the Chinese dominance and see what is it

doing to the

Allies in a time of rising expectations

America's capabilities are phasing I'm

told in private the Koreans told the

Americans that listen if it comes to

Taiwan we have to deal with North Korea

the Japanese are having second thoughts

exactly so American deterence is a

consequence of all this the purists you

know don't seem to admit but I think old

war 2.0 is here that's right Ukraine was

the first Hot War Taiwan may become the

Cuban Missile Crisis but isar Ulta last

time America was playing the home game

and they they didn't blink but Russians

and also the home game you have to

project power correct so I mean you know

somebody said I think Dan blumen he said

you see Americans are good at hashtags

hashtag zinsky hashtag where is the cold

military steering and now see the

critical question if you look in UK If

you back off in Ukraine what message

does it send to Iran to North Korea and

to China so this what is happening in

the world is having you know great

consequences and at least for now the

winners seem to be Russia and Europe

Iran in West Asia perhaps China here so

what is the consequence for us then

exactly so just two more points here the

consequence for both of us is this that

America see America is a comeback Nation

it has come back many times in the past

it could now even with Japan and all but

what we should worry about is the rate

at which China is converting economic

surpluses and technological advantages

into hard power right you know Bill

Clinton at one time said it's the

economy stupid sure I POS it is it not

National Security stupid it is it is it

is this ability the Americans should

watch and we should watch see in our

case uh

after 2014 the defense landscape has

been transformed we all know it CDs you

know all that but the game is becoming

bigger our ability to transform our

surpluses into currencies of hard power

if we lag with the Chinese yes the lag

will grow the power symmetry must grow

so that is what you know I think again

that phrases of Dan glum he says in a

War era our responses are not not at War

rates they're still at the peace peace

time thing yeah not at the war Pace

correct yeah this is the criticality you

know which we we need to take care of

you know and see let make one point

about China because it's material to us

China has a lot of trouble you meet

people who will tell you you know and I

agree with it a tanking economy

unemployment real estate what happened

in the rocket Force right all that stuff

the chips actors perhaps working Ida but

the point is this that

in globalization 2.0 in most of the

Technologies apart from I think AI

robotics electric vehicles green energy

Quantum I think there was ORF report in

37 out of 44 China Le leaving and they

also have Rare

Earth they should worry up you know why

is Z got after Jack May and all he's

told them that listen you are playing

wasting your time on video games

spoiling my youngsters use them to

create science in hypersonics exactly so

this is the way China looks at hard hard

power and that is why it should worry us

a lot because all that hard power which

is being deployed against Taiwan

especially the rocket force and all can

be turned on us so uh like I was saying

U you know all this India uh how should

it respond and what should be the Indian

Plan before I come to India I'll just

say one point short point you see so the

singularity of American heimy is being

challenged in many ways that is the

first point and the arsenal of democracy

which was that democracy all that all

that Democracy stand for all the good

things will be protected by a very

strong military Arsenal that was the

philosophy behind those $950 billion and

all that the arsenal of democracy is

fading and the Arsenal of autocracy is

doing better and that is the fight

between the two systems that should wor

so now see in our context what I make

this point that this edifice which has

been laid of CDs dma and all the other

things you know new normals in our

strategic Outlook we need to build on

this to make a comprehensive National

Security makeover and reduce the power

of symmetry with China and one of the

major ways of doing it is Technologies

and Associated changes not Technologies

alone say Technologies cultural

transitions exactly things like civil

military fusion and all see I'll give

you one

example if it is

true China's defense spending in 1995

was 2.5% of its GDP last year it was 1.7

now I know they may be concealing a few

things here and there but the fact is

that They carried out their major

military

transformation without spiraling

costs that's right so the did the U what

we call right sizing at many places yes

and see the other issue uh China's

America's defense budget is three times

that of China China's defense budget is

three times that of our why is Beijing

causing displacement anxiety in

Washington and we don't cause similar

similar dis

because structural Corrections theater

commands cultural transitions see

cultural transitions to get AI going the

American an have got Craig martle as

their AI officer who's Craig martle he

is neither a soldier nor a bureaucrat

nor a academic academic he was doing

machine learning in ly right so you are

admitting that if I have to get gii

going I need to get somebody of that

sort absolutely that is the first step

correct and accept other you know what

you call specialities sent centcom has

got of course somebody to do AI they

have got a lady I think her name is Dr

Jin Juliana Moore who is a Innovation

which means they are saying Innovation

is different from Technology Innovation

is somebody who says using technology

for betterment and other issues

processes and all that now see in our

case AI can be the secret source to

reduce power of symmetry between us and

China see I'll give you an example this

question that is what we should not fall

prey to see what went wrong in space

till 20 12 India was saying we don't

militarize space the world was

leveraging space already doing it 2014

it became an active War fighting domain

and see the consequences so basic space

press we have so we are doing very well

in Chandra South Pole where are we

failing commercial space military space

worse yes we are absent in the Alo

Circuit look what has happened there

even the Americans we heard of that

incident of starlinks see what Al Star

for zinsky to communicate with global

councils to communicate with Street

resolve and for troop moral also for

artillery designation and now see here's

the icing on the cake I believe those

Russian ukrainians sometime back maybe 5

six months back decided to put some

ammunition on an underwater submarine or

underwater drone and use it to Target

the Black Sea Fleet Alon musk gets a

wind of it he switches off the St cor

the ukrainians go rushing to him he

consults the Russians and decides that

you know the Russians tell him no no we

will retaliate and it may go into the

nuclear domain he decides to switch it

off and the submarine doesn't function

or that device is he CEO or is he chief

of Defense staff exactly but we must

acknowledge this is how power has moved

to that sector so we must get our Tech

giants into defense correct and now look

at the conclusion I don't know how true

this is when this was going on people

queried why are we dependent on

starlings where are ours the US military

now has done star Shields as a sequence

to starlings right so I'm saying we need

first and foremost a ELO configuration

say in ladak a ELO configuration in in

in the

Northeast let's just do silent

technological cooperation co-design why

not say AI enablement of the northern

theater but see what is happening those

debates constrain us you know

militarization in AI we should not fall

prey again it is started risks

opportunities we should I think Raj also

written an article yesterday or

something nuclear apar should not get

into so of course risks they are

responsible ways of doing it but don't

lose capacity see what are you competing

with China look at its ambition in AI

absolutely they are saying we will link

sensors and Shooters across seven

domains Land Air sea subsea CED space ew

cyber seven domains using AI right so AI

will apply across GDs of War sensors

Shooters Logistics much faster and you

can do it far better and see just to

give you a sense of or the viewers a

sense of what AI will do just two things

from you know they say interestingly

that Einstein's IQ was 160 Chad GPT 4 is

155 my IQ is 130 your

14 and Chad GPT 6 yes will be 10 times

in 2 years true true so you know moat he

American Thinker he says you have got a

puppy into your home who's billion times

smarter than you it is for the humans

now to redesign his

so will really embellish us and the

third thing is see if today a Hypersonic

missile is getting inflight AI enabled

inflight updates the response cannot be

at the rate of human judgment cannot be

and then you just left catching up or

you just left look at Quantum you know

people think Quantum is theoretics I'll

give you one more piece of statistic

somebody said

Quantum Supremacy could be 3 years away

6 years 8 years but the day it

happens what ordinarily a problem which

would take 10,000 years for a super

computer to solve quantum computer will

do in 200 seconds look at the impact or

encryption which is going to transform

the military no wonder the CIA is saying

that the quantum threat is as Grave as

China these debates in India should

start Now actions and debates and if we

do this the power symmetry can reduce

greatly and that will give the signal to

no so luckily at least the quantum

Mission from what I know karandikar

who's now become the secretary Science

and Technology he's come from I khur

which is you know one good thing which

is started off late that you're getting

professionals to come into the

government to take decisions I think

Quantum mission is something but see

since you raised this point I would like

just to make this point what we are in

danger of doing still because this is

how the West thinks and this is where I

agree with Mr J Shanker we must not do

what the West does think our own way the

West says dual use so civil military so

like in Space the military will lag we

need a parallel Quantum mission in the M

mod or Quantum linked to the exactly and

see you are up against them who use

civil military Fusion exactly they lay

no distinctions so you are naturally uh

handicapping your and I would not say

military strategic military correct we

should think originally and see I think

it's a wonderful Point Place to make

this point what do our own text tell us

they

say the convergence of Lakshmi sarasti

and Dura absolutely so sarasti means get

your Academia I correct let them make

wealth and use wealth to nurse SP

correct it is totally against this civil

military division exactly no in fact I

would think it should now be the other

way around the military should start

innovating and and doing the research

and give it to the civilians now see

I'll tell you Innovation AI cannot come

to the military unless you get Greg

martal right the startups will bring the

AI Revolution more than Dro and making a

point on Dr in its current state just

doesn't have that Innovation and see

those Innovations what the game in AI

cannot be it cannot degenerate into L1

Contex it can Innovation Talent it has

to be a talent matching concept now

these are the cultural transitions but

see you know mod I know and the whole

defense sear it is so difficult to get

this going because even the good people

will tell you I agree with you entirely

but rules don't agree Innovation

L1 exactly and if these things happen we

are as good as anyone see I'll give you

one more static Kish makes this point he

says if the Indian mind

productivity is even 50% of our counter

counterpart in USA our GDP will be $25

trillion because there are so many of us

we no we are good if we just unleash

this whole uh you know these these

shackles that we have put around us this

is what so we are in a

moment when you the basic question is

much is right see with the operational

rebalancing China is not going to mess

with us along the LA they have got the

message it is in these other areas where

we can they can keep chipping away know

I mean that's the problem see the

Chinese want to want to win without

fighting the fighting the old

conventional war and see you made this

point so well they doing the same thing

to the Americans they are saying you

stay to your corner of the Pacific and

they send the message without doing any

J when people ask you know will there be

a war they may not be but if the power

of symmetry goes whenever they are

conflicts they will pose the

question exactly and what will any s

mind in India do correct so you know

that Original Point

deterence is costly but Wars are

costlier ask the ukrainians and

deterence has to be in the mind no and

to do that you must have all these

abilities all the capabilities and one

big transition we need conceptually in

our Armed Forces we are fighting focused

of course that is very important we

should also become deterence Focus so

strong in deterence that there is no

need to fight yeah absolutely no and I

you know what the point that you made

and when you were in the training

command I remember this Innovation the

kind of Academia links that you had

started off we need much more of that

see how it is paid off PA not only me I

I must pay it is General ra General

Saha chanan but see the consequence it

was so

gratifying by the way let me make this

point the Army is considered a

technology lagard maybe today we are

pretty well off right see you are Samir

josi yes today he's running into 200

crores or something who gave him the

first Army I'm just good things can

happen startup 3i or something you must

interview them V

Dalia of them they're working with GA

now yes that day they have got a

contract in the Predator deal that's

right spacecom has given 114 AI in AI

domains right the Navy is doing a

wonderful job say 1,500 crores in one

day exactly but given the China threat

we need to need much more pick it up it

up and see now what the Prime Minister

says this startups have to to scale up

corre and these scaled up startups have

to become our national champions see one

more thing must go out of the window

this business of we telling the private

sector line you know keep investing and

we will judge you by L1 this nor work

there has to be a degree of assuredness

why would anyone put money on this

that's one and so if you're emulating

the Americans then please emulate them

fully hog exactly emulate them fully but

uh for lessons for the military now let

me come to that part uh technology is

inevitable inescapable now as as we see

it and induction of technology has to be

more and more um in that respect uh you

know these Innovations idex all these

things that have started it's okay but

if there are enough officers also who

are thinking out of the box and you know

youngsters who are doing some Innovation

I think they need encouragement which I

I just saw a report the Army has started

doing this they asked for a competition

and you know some of these people came

up they giving them patents I mean

they're helping them to get patents and

all that I think that culture like you

mentioned should be fostered and

encouraged going forward so I quite

agree with you see some of it is

happening some of it needs to happen

more and more see as you were talking

this thought came to my mind look at

what the Army has done hamar used to be

very sticky about not extending tenures

see that has been done shanan did a

tenure of seven years there's a guy

called Captain Raj prashad he's done so

many that bit started that's right this

bit of encouraging youngsters I don't

think it is no longer the case we are

encouraging more and more we should do

even much more what should also happen

Nan currently you see the career graph

this is very important in my view what

kind of officers do we need we need

officers who are very strong in the

fundamentals so say I'm a gunner I

should be a very good artillery officers

infantry officer as you grow in service

it is my view that say Colonels left

Colonels Colonels should be integrated

War Fighters now you can't start

thinking and which is even more critical

brigadiers upwards you have to be

officers with a wide angled view of

National Security correct this is an

escapable now how do we do it one of the

I've been suggesting the CDs should sit

on the boards of three stars that is his

prerogative to show that it is those

kind of officers these changes have to

be made also and two more points I would

like to make the first command in my

view and I hear I may be a lone

Warrior is should be art track should be

joint give it to Navy give it to Air

Force because if your thinking is not

join and see art track is actually is

just not training it is doctrines it is

Futures it is Innovations by the way the

Army US Army has set up a Futures

command now we can't do all that I'm

saying with my experience of arra arra

should look at future

Innovation it is not a easy thing US

Army has designated a fourar to drive

Innovation drive it absolutely not talk

drive and training should be delegated

to three stars absolutely and the other

place which is very critical is kamodan

defense services staff College he has to

be see uh imaginative and also let's

take the Chinese

example why are they leading in ideation

they have the sharpest think tanks Singa

right even in that CCP absolutely so we

have to create something of that kind so

those cultural transitions are extreme

one of the other points that is also the

role of the private sector see if we uh

if the military ropes in the private

sector at the conceptual stage and tells

them okay we are with you on this so for

that the rules need to change the

culture needs to change and not have

that same sarari approach to it so I

think uh there are three or four things

steps that uh from what I can see what

you suggesting is much more imagination

uh

Innovation uh ideation amongst the

officers and also link ups with Academia

and the private sector these need to be

uh sort of speeded up and fostered uh is

that something you know we should look

at because otherwise threats are going

to just multiply the good news is that

much of it has started like many of the

it are leading many projects it has to

be scaled up to be scaled up the Indian

army had many of these projects in a

whole lot of

ideas the other issue I would say

ideation with execution see there's no

point my putting two Paras of the first

par AI Quantum in every Commander speech

and they're not understand understand

have the humility let me tell you this

these Technologies are such you first

have to have the humility to understand

that correct you cannot tell staff

officers to put this up Ai and all you

have to sit yourself once you understand

it I'm sure your commanders will unleash

it so ideation the biggest problem we

have done is created these dis

distinctions scholar Warrior

yeah together thinking General it has to

come and you to dirty your own hands

actually and this is not I'm from NDA

nda's whole thing was of well-rounded

officers so where is this started

correct you think and you execute

exactly so that is extremely important

and I would say today in

priority digital integration I mean just

as a phrase is more important than

theater command sure cultural

transitions absolutely this thinking B

and see let me say private sector has

started dat Airbus this is good for us

is going to challenge the Monopoly of H

it will be good for H yeah exactly they

will improve improve as they go along

Dro like DARPA should be a mentoring

Organization for technology startups it

doesn't have to do it and those startups

see look at what how startups can change

the fate of Nations what was barakar it

was a startup it has made turkey a drone

superow strategic Iranians are doing

drones I mean can you imagine which

Russians are leing and you know you will

not get it till you visited it I visited

one of these startups I was

amazed somebody has hired one of these

startups 60 IIT Engineers now see you

what you are paying them what are your

tensions and uh you go at 10:00 in the

night 12:00 at night they are struggling

with some part of a chip or some part of

a that has to be the struggle the

problem with sari organizations they

have become this 10 to five de that's

right which will not happen luckily I

think the dro reforms around the corner

around the corner but they really have

to be deep reforms deep reforms

absolutely know there'll be complete

dismantling I suppose and then you know

restructuring of the entire thing like

what they did with the ofb break them up

into various segments and you know did

all that see ofb if this reformed

happened

PP look it doesn't have a problem in

producing volumes of munition but they

are producing dumb Munitions which are

of no use they have to be precise smart

ex smart and intelligent exactly so

these are the challenges so I know I

make this point a lot of that has

started but it needs to scale up and

speed up SC I think that's where I think

we should end our conversation because

that's the start point of scaling up

things and uh getting uh the technology

into the military domain is going to be

the and see just my last point if I make

you know AI what is the lesson out of

this um whole Sam Alman Affair yeah the

lesson is that AI cannot grow in the

isolation of research

Labs has to interact with the commercial

world that's right so unless data

explodes and computing power explodes

you will not have ai now see what is the

biggest problem this the last point I

with our military as with other military

say US military Ash Carter had to tell

one of the generals that listen you can

have your data very secure in silos or

you can have data talking to data the

problem with military is I'm telling you

we have not even unlocked our data

that's right and that data has to get

unlocked and there's a lovely phrase you

know you have to be data first informed

then you will be data driven then you

will be data Leed and now ai steps in

yeah and will give you new insights

which humans cannot see like that game

to move 37 moment and go that's right so

if you understand AI this is what AI

will take you to absolutely no I fully

agree and I think people like you must

keep on talking about this implementing

them so thank you for this Insight it's

a great talking to you and I'm sure

there'll be more occasions for us to

have these conversations thanks a lot ni

thank you for it's a pleasure so that

was General Raj Shukla talking to us on

various issues and why technology should

be at the front and center of uh defense

Innovation and defense uh reforms that

India must carry out do keep watching

bat chakti and of course keep sending us

feedback it's important for us to know

what you think and of course you know

our social media handles where to reach

them keep subscribing to our YouTube

channel and we'll come back with more

for the time being it's

goodbye

 

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hello and welcome to bhat Shakti I'm

ntin gole my special guest today is left

General Raj Shukla uh till very recently

the Army Commander at the army training

command and conceptually and

intellectually one of the thinkers

military thinkers that India has off

late who speaks on various issues which

are the future uh threat and challenges

and of course prospects for India and

Indian military but also someone who

speaks his mind so welcome Raj for this

interaction in fact uh let me start with

uh the uh Global flux that we are uh

looking at right now multiple um you

know threats multiple challenges

multiple conflicts going on what's your

sense are we in midst of some big change

or this is going to be an incremental

kind of conflicts that are happening

right now so so Nan I'll just put some

facts before you as I read them and then

you judge for yourself but I mean I

would say it is far more than a flux if

I may use the term the world is on an

edge it is on a powder keg and let me

explain why sure so you know Walter

russl M very perceptively said that 2014

we entered the pre-war era right and I

was to wonder what does he mean till I

met General Patrick Sanders who had come

for IAC recently yeah and he's also a

very thinking guy Patrick said that we

are the war generation and look at it

now look at the conflicts it seems to be

an unending line Georgia creia nagaro

kabak Koso Iraq Afghanistan Europe

Europe which thought that you know it

Eternal Prosperity is the answer to

everything is its own and it is poor

Africa and Asians who fight correct look

that's what happened there and on issues

which are

Territorial and today it is first World

War I trench warfare so those Squadron

company battles exactly so this is I

mean Walter Russel me was entirely uh

perceptive in terms of this you know

this um uh

war look at what is happening in Taiwan

I am telling you I have concluded that

the Chinese A2 ad has successfully put

the Americans out of the first tent see

just look at this

1996 China acts funny and the aircraft

carrier comes Clinton dispatches it and

China backs off today American Naval

commanders are saying that we our

aircraft carriers have to be, Miles off

it is only the Expendable ships which

will go right and no war has been fought

but China is doing daily military

coercion it seems to be signaling to the

Americans that Retreat to your corner of

the Pacific yes so all this is working

look at American failing deter I mean

people are asking in America now $950

billion 800 bases 11 aircraft carriers

and you losing everywhere and South

China see they have lost in last 10

years Ukraine you have lost with Russia

now mobilizing is Putin going to take

the battle to Ukraine so it's not a

thing to you know feel good about but

it's a fact the failure of American

deterant yeah

one week before 7th October Jake salivan

in a conference I mean one should not

blame him for it anyone would do it but

a fact is this he was asked about the

world he said we have problems elsewhere

but West Asia is taken care of and then

7th October lesson from Israel I mean we

as soldiers we used to you know swear by

Israel technological superpower so the

point is compeny doesn't work the

Americans are failing in their DET look

at see look at the outstretched US

military

[Music]

M their defense strategy very clearly

says China is the pacing threat which

means they should pivot as they

pivot today America is not able to honor

its own commitments to tr $19 billion

kabo so you see this failure of DET you

know Churchill made a good statement he

said that you can either fight two Wars

or win one look at the American dilemma

fight three Wars or win one correct so

American deterence you know is being

seriously challenged look at the some

facts I'll give you mighty America look

at the state of its military industrial

complex sure I'm told there's a report

to suggest that America doesn't have 7

Days of missiles and Munitions to fight

in Taiwan sure for the last 3 years the

US Army and its Marines have missed

their recruiting targets Navy

American 2025 China will have 400 ships

America will have 295 correct look at

how the military balance is changing in

Ukraine the ukrainians were firing

100,000 artillery rounds per week the

West could produce 1 lakh rounds in a

month the shortfall Russia is winning

because of his military General rat May

so rest in peace he used to ask us why

do you need 40i we couldn't explain the

reality seems to be 90i yeah exactly you

know and look at one more warning fact

which n for H makes and I haven't heard

an American response he says today the

American debt is $33 trillion it which

means you need $1 trillion to just for

debt servicing defense $950 billion for

the first time in American history their

debt exceeds their defense budget which

means what they don't have the resources

to reinvigorate the military yes no I I

know from people who actually deal with

these ammunitions and others in the in

the west that their their capacities

have gone down so much so you know

you're right absolutely about you know

declining Admiral paparo the CNC of iong

he says the DF 21s and DF 27s the

missiles of the Chinese have permanently

altered the principles of Naval Warfare

in the western these are carrier Killers

exactly so I mean the point is and see

what if America gets locked out of East

Asia look what happens to us we going to

face unipolar world was bad but unipolar

Asia will be worse unipolar Asia with

the Chinese dominance and see what is it

doing to the

Allies in a time of rising expectations

America's capabilities are phasing I'm

told in private the Koreans told the

Americans that listen if it comes to

Taiwan we have to deal with North Korea

the Japanese are having second thoughts

exactly so American deterence is a

consequence of all this the purists you

know don't seem to admit but I think old

war 2.0 is here that's right Ukraine was

the first Hot War Taiwan may become the

Cuban Missile Crisis but isar Ulta last

time America was playing the home game

and they they didn't blink but Russians

and also the home game you have to

project power correct so I mean you know

somebody said I think Dan blumen he said

you see Americans are good at hashtags

hashtag zinsky hashtag where is the cold

military steering and now see the

critical question if you look in UK If

you back off in Ukraine what message

does it send to Iran to North Korea and

to China so this what is happening in

the world is having you know great

consequences and at least for now the

winners seem to be Russia and Europe

Iran in West Asia perhaps China here so

what is the consequence for us then

exactly so just two more points here the

consequence for both of us is this that

America see America is a comeback Nation

it has come back many times in the past

it could now even with Japan and all but

what we should worry about is the rate

at which China is converting economic

surpluses and technological advantages

into hard power right you know Bill

Clinton at one time said it's the

economy stupid sure I POS it is it not

National Security stupid it is it is it

is this ability the Americans should

watch and we should watch see in our

case uh

after 2014 the defense landscape has

been transformed we all know it CDs you

know all that but the game is becoming

bigger our ability to transform our

surpluses into currencies of hard power

if we lag with the Chinese yes the lag

will grow the power symmetry must grow

so that is what you know I think again

that phrases of Dan glum he says in a

War era our responses are not not at War

rates they're still at the peace peace

time thing yeah not at the war Pace

correct yeah this is the criticality you

know which we we need to take care of

you know and see let make one point

about China because it's material to us

China has a lot of trouble you meet

people who will tell you you know and I

agree with it a tanking economy

unemployment real estate what happened

in the rocket Force right all that stuff

the chips actors perhaps working Ida but

the point is this that

in globalization 2.0 in most of the

Technologies apart from I think AI

robotics electric vehicles green energy

Quantum I think there was ORF report in

37 out of 44 China Le leaving and they

also have Rare

Earth they should worry up you know why

is Z got after Jack May and all he's

told them that listen you are playing

wasting your time on video games

spoiling my youngsters use them to

create science in hypersonics exactly so

this is the way China looks at hard hard

power and that is why it should worry us

a lot because all that hard power which

is being deployed against Taiwan

especially the rocket force and all can

be turned on us so uh like I was saying

U you know all this India uh how should

it respond and what should be the Indian

Plan before I come to India I'll just

say one point short point you see so the

singularity of American heimy is being

challenged in many ways that is the

first point and the arsenal of democracy

which was that democracy all that all

that Democracy stand for all the good

things will be protected by a very

strong military Arsenal that was the

philosophy behind those $950 billion and

all that the arsenal of democracy is

fading and the Arsenal of autocracy is

doing better and that is the fight

between the two systems that should wor

so now see in our context what I make

this point that this edifice which has

been laid of CDs dma and all the other

things you know new normals in our

strategic Outlook we need to build on

this to make a comprehensive National

Security makeover and reduce the power

of symmetry with China and one of the

major ways of doing it is Technologies

and Associated changes not Technologies

alone say Technologies cultural

transitions exactly things like civil

military fusion and all see I'll give

you one

example if it is

true China's defense spending in 1995

was 2.5% of its GDP last year it was 1.7

now I know they may be concealing a few

things here and there but the fact is

that They carried out their major

military

transformation without spiraling

costs that's right so the did the U what

we call right sizing at many places yes

and see the other issue uh China's

America's defense budget is three times

that of China China's defense budget is

three times that of our why is Beijing

causing displacement anxiety in

Washington and we don't cause similar

similar dis

because structural Corrections theater

commands cultural transitions see

cultural transitions to get AI going the

American an have got Craig martle as

their AI officer who's Craig martle he

is neither a soldier nor a bureaucrat

nor a academic academic he was doing

machine learning in ly right so you are

admitting that if I have to get gii

going I need to get somebody of that

sort absolutely that is the first step

correct and accept other you know what

you call specialities sent centcom has

got of course somebody to do AI they

have got a lady I think her name is Dr

Jin Juliana Moore who is a Innovation

which means they are saying Innovation

is different from Technology Innovation

is somebody who says using technology

for betterment and other issues

processes and all that now see in our

case AI can be the secret source to

reduce power of symmetry between us and

China see I'll give you an example this

question that is what we should not fall

prey to see what went wrong in space

till 20 12 India was saying we don't

militarize space the world was

leveraging space already doing it 2014

it became an active War fighting domain

and see the consequences so basic space

press we have so we are doing very well

in Chandra South Pole where are we

failing commercial space military space

worse yes we are absent in the Alo

Circuit look what has happened there

even the Americans we heard of that

incident of starlinks see what Al Star

for zinsky to communicate with global

councils to communicate with Street

resolve and for troop moral also for

artillery designation and now see here's

the icing on the cake I believe those

Russian ukrainians sometime back maybe 5

six months back decided to put some

ammunition on an underwater submarine or

underwater drone and use it to Target

the Black Sea Fleet Alon musk gets a

wind of it he switches off the St cor

the ukrainians go rushing to him he

consults the Russians and decides that

you know the Russians tell him no no we

will retaliate and it may go into the

nuclear domain he decides to switch it

off and the submarine doesn't function

or that device is he CEO or is he chief

of Defense staff exactly but we must

acknowledge this is how power has moved

to that sector so we must get our Tech

giants into defense correct and now look

at the conclusion I don't know how true

this is when this was going on people

queried why are we dependent on

starlings where are ours the US military

now has done star Shields as a sequence

to starlings right so I'm saying we need

first and foremost a ELO configuration

say in ladak a ELO configuration in in

in the

Northeast let's just do silent

technological cooperation co-design why

not say AI enablement of the northern

theater but see what is happening those

debates constrain us you know

militarization in AI we should not fall

prey again it is started risks

opportunities we should I think Raj also

written an article yesterday or

something nuclear apar should not get

into so of course risks they are

responsible ways of doing it but don't

lose capacity see what are you competing

with China look at its ambition in AI

absolutely they are saying we will link

sensors and Shooters across seven

domains Land Air sea subsea CED space ew

cyber seven domains using AI right so AI

will apply across GDs of War sensors

Shooters Logistics much faster and you

can do it far better and see just to

give you a sense of or the viewers a

sense of what AI will do just two things

from you know they say interestingly

that Einstein's IQ was 160 Chad GPT 4 is

155 my IQ is 130 your

14 and Chad GPT 6 yes will be 10 times

in 2 years true true so you know moat he

American Thinker he says you have got a

puppy into your home who's billion times

smarter than you it is for the humans

now to redesign his

so will really embellish us and the

third thing is see if today a Hypersonic

missile is getting inflight AI enabled

inflight updates the response cannot be

at the rate of human judgment cannot be

and then you just left catching up or

you just left look at Quantum you know

people think Quantum is theoretics I'll

give you one more piece of statistic

somebody said

Quantum Supremacy could be 3 years away

6 years 8 years but the day it

happens what ordinarily a problem which

would take 10,000 years for a super

computer to solve quantum computer will

do in 200 seconds look at the impact or

encryption which is going to transform

the military no wonder the CIA is saying

that the quantum threat is as Grave as

China these debates in India should

start Now actions and debates and if we

do this the power symmetry can reduce

greatly and that will give the signal to

no so luckily at least the quantum

Mission from what I know karandikar

who's now become the secretary Science

and Technology he's come from I khur

which is you know one good thing which

is started off late that you're getting

professionals to come into the

government to take decisions I think

Quantum mission is something but see

since you raised this point I would like

just to make this point what we are in

danger of doing still because this is

how the West thinks and this is where I

agree with Mr J Shanker we must not do

what the West does think our own way the

West says dual use so civil military so

like in Space the military will lag we

need a parallel Quantum mission in the M

mod or Quantum linked to the exactly and

see you are up against them who use

civil military Fusion exactly they lay

no distinctions so you are naturally uh

handicapping your and I would not say

military strategic military correct we

should think originally and see I think

it's a wonderful Point Place to make

this point what do our own text tell us

they

say the convergence of Lakshmi sarasti

and Dura absolutely so sarasti means get

your Academia I correct let them make

wealth and use wealth to nurse SP

correct it is totally against this civil

military division exactly no in fact I

would think it should now be the other

way around the military should start

innovating and and doing the research

and give it to the civilians now see

I'll tell you Innovation AI cannot come

to the military unless you get Greg

martal right the startups will bring the

AI Revolution more than Dro and making a

point on Dr in its current state just

doesn't have that Innovation and see

those Innovations what the game in AI

cannot be it cannot degenerate into L1

Contex it can Innovation Talent it has

to be a talent matching concept now

these are the cultural transitions but

see you know mod I know and the whole

defense sear it is so difficult to get

this going because even the good people

will tell you I agree with you entirely

but rules don't agree Innovation

L1 exactly and if these things happen we

are as good as anyone see I'll give you

one more static Kish makes this point he

says if the Indian mind

productivity is even 50% of our counter

counterpart in USA our GDP will be $25

trillion because there are so many of us

we no we are good if we just unleash

this whole uh you know these these

shackles that we have put around us this

is what so we are in a

moment when you the basic question is

much is right see with the operational

rebalancing China is not going to mess

with us along the LA they have got the

message it is in these other areas where

we can they can keep chipping away know

I mean that's the problem see the

Chinese want to want to win without

fighting the fighting the old

conventional war and see you made this

point so well they doing the same thing

to the Americans they are saying you

stay to your corner of the Pacific and

they send the message without doing any

J when people ask you know will there be

a war they may not be but if the power

of symmetry goes whenever they are

conflicts they will pose the

question exactly and what will any s

mind in India do correct so you know

that Original Point

deterence is costly but Wars are

costlier ask the ukrainians and

deterence has to be in the mind no and

to do that you must have all these

abilities all the capabilities and one

big transition we need conceptually in

our Armed Forces we are fighting focused

of course that is very important we

should also become deterence Focus so

strong in deterence that there is no

need to fight yeah absolutely no and I

you know what the point that you made

and when you were in the training

command I remember this Innovation the

kind of Academia links that you had

started off we need much more of that

see how it is paid off PA not only me I

I must pay it is General ra General

Saha chanan but see the consequence it

was so

gratifying by the way let me make this

point the Army is considered a

technology lagard maybe today we are

pretty well off right see you are Samir

josi yes today he's running into 200

crores or something who gave him the

first Army I'm just good things can

happen startup 3i or something you must

interview them V

Dalia of them they're working with GA

now yes that day they have got a

contract in the Predator deal that's

right spacecom has given 114 AI in AI

domains right the Navy is doing a

wonderful job say 1,500 crores in one

day exactly but given the China threat

we need to need much more pick it up it

up and see now what the Prime Minister

says this startups have to to scale up

corre and these scaled up startups have

to become our national champions see one

more thing must go out of the window

this business of we telling the private

sector line you know keep investing and

we will judge you by L1 this nor work

there has to be a degree of assuredness

why would anyone put money on this

that's one and so if you're emulating

the Americans then please emulate them

fully hog exactly emulate them fully but

uh for lessons for the military now let

me come to that part uh technology is

inevitable inescapable now as as we see

it and induction of technology has to be

more and more um in that respect uh you

know these Innovations idex all these

things that have started it's okay but

if there are enough officers also who

are thinking out of the box and you know

youngsters who are doing some Innovation

I think they need encouragement which I

I just saw a report the Army has started

doing this they asked for a competition

and you know some of these people came

up they giving them patents I mean

they're helping them to get patents and

all that I think that culture like you

mentioned should be fostered and

encouraged going forward so I quite

agree with you see some of it is

happening some of it needs to happen

more and more see as you were talking

this thought came to my mind look at

what the Army has done hamar used to be

very sticky about not extending tenures

see that has been done shanan did a

tenure of seven years there's a guy

called Captain Raj prashad he's done so

many that bit started that's right this

bit of encouraging youngsters I don't

think it is no longer the case we are

encouraging more and more we should do

even much more what should also happen

Nan currently you see the career graph

this is very important in my view what

kind of officers do we need we need

officers who are very strong in the

fundamentals so say I'm a gunner I

should be a very good artillery officers

infantry officer as you grow in service

it is my view that say Colonels left

Colonels Colonels should be integrated

War Fighters now you can't start

thinking and which is even more critical

brigadiers upwards you have to be

officers with a wide angled view of

National Security correct this is an

escapable now how do we do it one of the

I've been suggesting the CDs should sit

on the boards of three stars that is his

prerogative to show that it is those

kind of officers these changes have to

be made also and two more points I would

like to make the first command in my

view and I hear I may be a lone

Warrior is should be art track should be

joint give it to Navy give it to Air

Force because if your thinking is not

join and see art track is actually is

just not training it is doctrines it is

Futures it is Innovations by the way the

Army US Army has set up a Futures

command now we can't do all that I'm

saying with my experience of arra arra

should look at future

Innovation it is not a easy thing US

Army has designated a fourar to drive

Innovation drive it absolutely not talk

drive and training should be delegated

to three stars absolutely and the other

place which is very critical is kamodan

defense services staff College he has to

be see uh imaginative and also let's

take the Chinese

example why are they leading in ideation

they have the sharpest think tanks Singa

right even in that CCP absolutely so we

have to create something of that kind so

those cultural transitions are extreme

one of the other points that is also the

role of the private sector see if we uh

if the military ropes in the private

sector at the conceptual stage and tells

them okay we are with you on this so for

that the rules need to change the

culture needs to change and not have

that same sarari approach to it so I

think uh there are three or four things

steps that uh from what I can see what

you suggesting is much more imagination

uh

Innovation uh ideation amongst the

officers and also link ups with Academia

and the private sector these need to be

uh sort of speeded up and fostered uh is

that something you know we should look

at because otherwise threats are going

to just multiply the good news is that

much of it has started like many of the

it are leading many projects it has to

be scaled up to be scaled up the Indian

army had many of these projects in a

whole lot of

ideas the other issue I would say

ideation with execution see there's no

point my putting two Paras of the first

par AI Quantum in every Commander speech

and they're not understand understand

have the humility let me tell you this

these Technologies are such you first

have to have the humility to understand

that correct you cannot tell staff

officers to put this up Ai and all you

have to sit yourself once you understand

it I'm sure your commanders will unleash

it so ideation the biggest problem we

have done is created these dis

distinctions scholar Warrior

yeah together thinking General it has to

come and you to dirty your own hands

actually and this is not I'm from NDA

nda's whole thing was of well-rounded

officers so where is this started

correct you think and you execute

exactly so that is extremely important

and I would say today in

priority digital integration I mean just

as a phrase is more important than

theater command sure cultural

transitions absolutely this thinking B

and see let me say private sector has

started dat Airbus this is good for us

is going to challenge the Monopoly of H

it will be good for H yeah exactly they

will improve improve as they go along

Dro like DARPA should be a mentoring

Organization for technology startups it

doesn't have to do it and those startups

see look at what how startups can change

the fate of Nations what was barakar it

was a startup it has made turkey a drone

superow strategic Iranians are doing

drones I mean can you imagine which

Russians are leing and you know you will

not get it till you visited it I visited

one of these startups I was

amazed somebody has hired one of these

startups 60 IIT Engineers now see you

what you are paying them what are your

tensions and uh you go at 10:00 in the

night 12:00 at night they are struggling

with some part of a chip or some part of

a that has to be the struggle the

problem with sari organizations they

have become this 10 to five de that's

right which will not happen luckily I

think the dro reforms around the corner

around the corner but they really have

to be deep reforms deep reforms

absolutely know there'll be complete

dismantling I suppose and then you know

restructuring of the entire thing like

what they did with the ofb break them up

into various segments and you know did

all that see ofb if this reformed

happened

PP look it doesn't have a problem in

producing volumes of munition but they

are producing dumb Munitions which are

of no use they have to be precise smart

ex smart and intelligent exactly so

these are the challenges so I know I

make this point a lot of that has

started but it needs to scale up and

speed up SC I think that's where I think

we should end our conversation because

that's the start point of scaling up

things and uh getting uh the technology

into the military domain is going to be

the and see just my last point if I make

you know AI what is the lesson out of

this um whole Sam Alman Affair yeah the

lesson is that AI cannot grow in the

isolation of research

Labs has to interact with the commercial

world that's right so unless data

explodes and computing power explodes

you will not have ai now see what is the

biggest problem this the last point I

with our military as with other military

say US military Ash Carter had to tell

one of the generals that listen you can

have your data very secure in silos or

you can have data talking to data the

problem with military is I'm telling you

we have not even unlocked our data

that's right and that data has to get

unlocked and there's a lovely phrase you

know you have to be data first informed

then you will be data driven then you

will be data Leed and now ai steps in

yeah and will give you new insights

which humans cannot see like that game

to move 37 moment and go that's right so

if you understand AI this is what AI

will take you to absolutely no I fully

agree and I think people like you must

keep on talking about this implementing

them so thank you for this Insight it's

a great talking to you and I'm sure

there'll be more occasions for us to

have these conversations thanks a lot ni

thank you for it's a pleasure so that

was General Raj Shukla talking to us on

various issues and why technology should

be at the front and center of uh defense

Innovation and defense uh reforms that

India must carry out do keep watching

bat chakti and of course keep sending us

feedback it's important for us to know

what you think and of course you know

our social media handles where to reach

them keep subscribing to our YouTube

channel and we'll come back with more

for the time being it's

goodbye

ChatGPT summary -

Lt. Gen. Raj Shukla engages in a comprehensive discussion on the current global geopolitical landscape, with a particular focus on military challenges, technological advancements, and the need for India to strengthen its defense capabilities. The conversation covers various key points:

1. Global Challenges and Conflicts:
- Describes the current global situation as being on the edge, likening it to a powder keg.
- Mentions the idea that the world entered a pre-war era in 2014, a perspective echoed by military thinkers.
- Highlights ongoing conflicts and threats worldwide, from Europe to Asia.

2. Failure of American Deterrence:
- Points out the failure of American deterrence, citing examples such as China's military coercion and the challenges faced by the U.S. Navy.
- Discusses the impact of China's anti-access/area denial (A2/AD) strategy on American military influence in the Pacific.
- Raises concerns about the mismatch between American defense spending, global commitments, and the actual outcomes in conflicts.

3. Technological Shift and Military Strategy:
- Emphasizes the transformative power of technology in shaping military strategies.
- Highlights China's success in converting economic and technological advantages into hard power.
- Stresses the importance of AI, quantum computing, and other advanced technologies in modern warfare.

4. India's Response and National Security Makeover:
- Advocates for a comprehensive national security makeover in India, integrating advanced technologies into military planning.
- Recommends reducing the power asymmetry with China through technological advancements.
- Discusses the role of AI, quantum computing, and civil-military fusion in strengthening India's defense capabilities.

5. Role of Private Sector and Cultural Transitions:
- Discusses the changing role of the private sector in defense, citing examples like Airbus challenging the monopoly of certain defense technologies.
- Emphasizes the need for cultural transitions within the armed forces to foster innovation, with a focus on joint collaboration between military, academia, and the private sector.
- Advocates for military leaders to be actively involved in the development and understanding of advanced technologies.

6. Ideation, Innovation, and Execution:
- Highlights the importance of ideation coupled with execution, with an emphasis on understanding and embracing new technologies.
- Recommends deep reforms, especially in the areas of unlocking military data and fostering a data-driven and AI-supported military environment.

7. Strategic Reforms and Collaboration:
- Recommends reforms such as involving the private sector at the conceptual stage and changing the career trajectories of military officers to foster strategic thinking.
- Advocates for the creation of think tanks and innovative platforms akin to China's approach.

8. Conclusion:
- Stresses the urgency of scaling up and speeding up technological advancements and collaborations to address evolving security challenges.
- Encourages India to think originally and strategically to compete with China in technological and military innovation.

Overall, Lt. Gen. Raj Shukla's discussion underscores the critical intersection of global geopolitics, technological advancements, and the imperative for India to strengthen its defense capabilities through innovation and strategic reforms.