India-China Border conflict

Hari Sud

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The immortal fear of China and what for?

Since 1962, India, suffers the mortal fear of Chinese invasion. Deng Xiaping cooled this fear temporarily, but the current crop of Chinese leaders has revived this fear. They want to take back all the Indian lands they were unable to take in 1962. They'd already taken most of what they wanted in Ladakh in 1962. Only a little remained there, but their real intention was to divert India's intention to Ladakh and seize Tawang and Arunachal Pradesh. I dare say that Mao Tse Tung is reborn in Xi Jinping except Xi met an Indian iron fist.

What was their purpose at Ladakh? ….. They wished to reach the 1959 farthest claim line in Ladakh. Unfortunately, they did not, rather retreated at two places under military pressure from India. Two other small areas will be cleared as quickly as possible. What the Chinese leaders sitting in Beijing did not realize is that the extreme heights and cold of winter (17,000 to 22,000 feet) make it difficult for them to move. Furthermore, the troops sent to capture those places found their military equipment frozen and unable to function. As a result, they stopped dead and began to talk their way out.

Their primary objective was not Ladakh in the West. This was a test case for a fight. Their main object is Tawang in the east. That's where the current Dalai Lama was born and the next Dalai Lama is likely to come from there. They wanted to mitigate the situation early before it became a problem. In their over-confidence, they envisioned a military victory as smooth as in 1962 except this time India showed them an iron will and steel wrist.

Tawang is on this side of the Himalayan mountain line separating Tibet from India in the east. This mountain line runs from about 14,000 feet to 16,000 feet, running along the Arunachal Pradesh. It is difficult to climb and reaching Tawang is 180 miles of difficult mountains and valleys to climb to Sela Pass at 20,000 feet in between. It is here the Chinese overwhelmed the hastily assembled Indian troops in 1962. India lost an Army Brigade at Sela Pass. Roughly 2,000 of its brave sons were either captured or killed by the Chinese including its Commander. That was then, not now. India is well prepared.

After its massive defeat, India's army regained its confidence and rebuilt itself with massive military hardware purchases. It regained itself further with victories in 1965, 1971 and 1999 against Pakistan, but that immortal fear of Chinese still remained. China's paid propaganda in the Indian media is partly to blame. It never stops comparing Chinese military with Indian military in whole numbers not realizing that 80% of their military is stationed in the East next to Taiwan and competing with US fleet in North and South China Sea. A smaller part of their military prowess is stationed in southern Tibetan areas. Their military budget is accordingly is small for Tibet area. The media often in self-destruct mode still envision the invasion, although Chinese capabilities are far less. Of late, they have been suggesting that Chinese copied and duplicated Navy ships coming to the Indian Ocean and wrecking havoc on India. It is difficult for them to realize; first, their ships are copied and duplicated hence of lower quality, second, it is a brand new navy without experience of battle as compared highly trained and modernized Indian Navy. Sill the Chinese psych-warfare goes on and on.

Somehow we must overcome this psychological fear factor. The Chinese have mastered propaganda. Their war strategist, Sun Tzu, taught them how to fight and win through propaganda prior to the start of the battle. This time, on the other hand, they must be defeated in the same manner that Vietnam defeated them in 1979. Only then will this propaganda and all trespassing at the borders cease.
 

rone

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Very interesting ...

"compromised multiple entities, incl. users at the Pak Defence Ministry, Pak National Defence University, Faculty of Bio-Science at UVAS University, Intl Center for Chemical & Bio-Sciences at Karachi Univ."

I Wonder what they were looking for... 😏😏😏


For those who don't understand the context, link below 👇


EXCLUSIVE: Wuhan-Pakistan deadly pathogen collab: “since 2015”

EXCLUSIVE: China's Wuhan lab operating “covert operations” in Pakistan, handling "anthrax-like" pathogens
[/QUOTE]
Actually very far from truth, the Twitter post based on recent malware bytes findings on Indian apt group called dopping elephant, actually the researcher able to find out abt the on going operation because apt operator infected him self with his malware and they figure out how Indian secondary lvl apt groups work ( normal rookie mistakes done by group when new inexperienced member joins)

Source to parent material
Source
 

mokoman

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Simple explanation for noobs plz!
they want us to accept new LAC , no hint of withdrawal , only disengagement , ie they will keep control of areas but want to move back forces.

similar shit in south china sea , take over islands, talk of peace , give empty promise not to militarise islands , then place airfields , missiles . from there further push forward with lame excuses.

dont know whats point of begging for these talks , hope its some kind of trick . as @Hellfire says only weak nations do this.
 

HariPrasad-1

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India-China stand-off

Here are some thoughts on the subject -

  1. If you want to understand what happened in 2020, you need to first revisit an incident that happened in September 2017.
  2. Modi had just become the Prime Minister, and the Chinese initiated a big incursion in the Chumar sector.
  3. They came prepared with more than regular number of troops.
  4. However, what they had not fathomed was the changed leadership at the center.
  5. Indian Army reacted in a much more forceful manner.
  6. A Brigade of 39 Mountain Division (Northern Command Reserve) was exercising in eastern Ladakh, and it was immediately pushed into the Chumar sector.
  7. We even had special forces in the area.
  8. I don't recall who it was, 14 Corps Commander or GOC-in-C, Northern Command, who used this opportunity to even push a brigade into DBO Sector.
  9. In the two decade before 2014, the PLA was used to having its way.
  10. But here, they suddenly found themselves outnumber 4:1, or even higher. And that too, in a sector where they're geographically very disadvantaged.
  11. And they had to back down, w/o any concessions from the Indian side.
  12. So, when 2020 happened, the Chinese came with a MUCH LARGER body of troops, AS COMPARED to their earlier transgressions in eastern Ladakh.
  13. Because they had gamed that India will reinforce using local sources, and they had worked out numbers to maintain parity.
  14. Please remember that the PLA earlier used to manage the whole of eastern Ladakh with just 2-3 Border Defense Regiments (BDR).
  15. They could do this because they know they'll be the first ones to fire shots in anger and that India will not use its numerical superiority to do any hanky-panky.
  16. But in 2020, they came prepared lest India repeat Chumar performance. The numbers they had were meant to have parity with our forces deployed upfront. They did not come to launch attacks or fight a war.
  17. BUT -
  18. What India did was completely out of syllabus.
  19. We mobilized double quick and the Chinese suddenly found themselves facing ~three divisions worth of troops.
  20. The Chinese suddenly found themselves on a weak wicket and had to pull in troops from Xinjiang Military Region, and if I go by some data that I've seen, even Combined Arms Brigades from one of the Group Armies situated outside the Tibetan Plateau (more than 2,500 km from eastern Ladakh).
  21. The force level they've inducted just about gives them parity with us.
  22. Now, if you're looking for attacking an adversary, you need at least 3:1 advantage in numbers. Sure, the Chinese have considerable firepower but except for Combined Arms Brigades from 76 or 77 Group Army, their best have not been committed. Xinjiang Military Region has their least modernized troops.
  23. Having inducted troops, the Chinese then went about building infrastructure to house these troops. And remember, you don't need only accommodation for troops but offices, vehicle parking areas, ammunition depots, Petroleum-Oil-Lubricant (POL) depots, food, supplies, etc.
  24. They basically had to build large cantonments because remember, what they has earlier were only couple of Border Defense Regiments.
  25. From couple of thousand of troops, the Chinese went to 50,000+ troops in a few months.
  26. Yes, while also had to create new infrastructure, remember, we already has almost two division worth of troops already in the sector.
  27. We went from X to 2X but they had to go from 0 -> 2X.
  28. Hence, the massive infra that you see on Google Earth and various Twitter handles.
  29. One more thing - while our lines of communication are tougher as we've to cross many mountain passes, the Chinese lines of communication to their LAC from major nodes is much longer.
  30. So, if Rudok or Ngari is their equivalent of Leh, you'll see 2 to 3 sub-nodes from these super-nodes and their side of LAC.
  31. The Chinese never came with the intention to fight a war; as it is, they'll never start a war if they're not sure of winning it.
  32. They came with the intention of intimidating Indians, and to ensure that little bit of encroachment that they do, is not challenged and prevented by the Indians. Like Chumar where they had to back down because numbers weren't in their favor and Indians had made their intentions known.
  33. But after Indians reacted the way it did, they had no option but to reinforce the sector themselves.
  34. Because you, me and others on this forum and outside might feel that India will not be first to use force, as an adversary, you cannot go by this assumption. They'll do by capability because intentions can change and we'd planted the capability to go bang-bang if we wanted.
  35. Chinese are now riding a Tiger they don't know how to get-off from. And they're stuck. Not least because Galwan happened.
  36. Chinese cannot to be seen losing face.
  37. As the bigger power, Chinese will lose if they're not seen explicitly as having won. While as a relatively smaller power, we will win if we simply hold them to stalemate.
  38. Why is 2020 different from earlier times?
  39. Well, earlier the Chinese ended up doing salami-slicing of Indian territory in Eastern Ladakh with handful of troops. Now, they've to induct 50,000+ troops to try and retain few square kilometers of territory they've tried to grab.
  40. Even that they've had to give-up in the process of establishing buffer zone, and disengagement.
  41. A message has gone all over the world that there is ONE country which will stand toe-to-toe with the Chinese and not give in to their bullying.
  42. What next?
  43. Well, I see a major China-India confrontation coming-up in next 5-7 years.
  44. Chinese are upping their infra in East, and developing a lot of infra here.
  45. Especially in Eastern Ladakh, all this infra will form the firm base from where to next launch assault on India.
  46. It could be in the form of short, sharp conflict with territory grab, or much larger one.
  47. My estimate is that it will be a high optic, small, sharp, and intense operation where the Chinese will be visibly seen by everyone to have 'defeated' India.
  48. They'll do this by achieving disproportionate superiority in one or two sub-sectors. And use the presence of their much larger force in rear areas to dissuade India from escalating the conflict further.
  49. All in all, interesting times ahead.

A great insight sharing material. If they try to attain superiority in one to two sector, we should do in rest and dominate more area than what they did making it costly for them to do any mischief in future. However, to do tit for tat, we need Modi or Yogi at the helm. By chance if the flimsy opposition comes to power, we will lose without fighting the war. If conflict happens in next 5 to 7 years, these time should be a preparation time to make this terrain specific weapons like we made "Pralay". We should have put proper infrastructure there by then. Do as much exercise as we can and raise another mountain warfare division with attacking role.
 

HariPrasad-1

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they want us to accept new LAC , no hint of withdrawal , only disengagement , ie they will keep control of areas but want to move back forces.

similar shit in south china sea , take over islands, talk of peace , give empty promise not to militarise islands , then place airfields , missiles . from there further push forward with lame excuses.

dont know whats point of begging for these talks , hope its some kind of trick . as @Hellfire says only weak nations do this.
In response, we are militarizing Andaman and Nicobar very fast. One Russian analysis said that India will create a permanent headache for China by Militarizing Andaman and Nicobar. They need to pass through Malacca strait for trade and oil. We need to strengthen our forces there. It starts from 300 km south of BD and ends at 200 north of Indonesia. It is our big leverage in the bay of Bengal and to some extent in Indian ocean.
 

SwordOfDarkness

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This probably warrants a first strike, NFU be damned. Accidentally or intentionally leaking deadly engineered germs on a largely non military general population should be simply unacceptable in a civilized world and should necessitate an equally barbaric response. Our N "doctrine" needs to be revised to spell this out. Enough is enough!
Our nuclear policy does count in biological warfare- It states that any Nuclear, Chemical, Or Biological attack on Indian citizens or Indian troops outside India will warrant nuclear use.

But the "intentional" leak isnt confirmed, more likely it was accidental leak due to crappy chinese maintenance
 

mokoman

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We have started

LMAO , didnt someone here predict this ??

just like last time , China will deny , accuse India of releasing fake info , then release some more clash pictures.

In response, we are militarizing Andaman and Nicobar very fast. One Russian analysis said that India will create a permanent headache for China by Militarizing Andaman and Nicobar. They need to pass through Malacca strait for trade and oil. We need to strengthen our forces there. It starts from 300 km south of BD and ends at 200 north of Indonesia. It is our big leverage in the bay of Bengal and to some extent in Indian ocean.
blockade is an act of war , we are now still at begging stage.

hope to god all this talk nonsense is a trick , once we build sufficient roads , hope we fuck them up in depsang.
 

SwordOfDarkness

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LMAO , didnt someone here predict this ??

just like last time , China will deny , accuse India of releasing fake info , then release some more clash pictures.



blockade is an act of war , we are now still at begging stage.

hope to god all this talk nonsense is a trick , once we build sufficient roads , hope we fuck them up in depsang.
Blockade scenario was quoted in case of the 2 front scenario, I dont think anyone imagines us just randomly stopping shipping to china.
 

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