India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

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HariPrasad-1

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In my opinion, logistics holds the key of success in Himalaya. Who so ever is able to maintain supply line will prevails. Globe master/ Chinooks will turn out to be a very important in this area. Infrastructure such as advance landing ground will play a key role in this conflicts. Our population near LAC is our biggest assets. They are supplying vital supply to our troops in this difficult conditions. Smart deployment on southern side of Pangong lake holds the key. What our forces miss here will be ALH and Pralay missile. These weapon are highly specific weapons tailor made for these terrains.
 

doreamon

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Porkis are also discussing the ongoing India-China Standoff at Ladakh UT/COL LAC and to the lesser extent at Arunachal Pradesh LAC. they are discussing multiple ways on how they can join this conflict in support of the Chinese and give India a multi-front defeat.
Indian response ll be knee jerk in a two front as our ammuntion stock ll be stressed. Pakistan shd take that in to calculation. May be india ll do something unexpected and unacceptable to pakistan to send message to china ... Present establishment shd nt be seen with the same perspective as they used to see the old ones ..
 

Okabe Rintarou

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My 5 Key weapons to win the conflict in Laddakh in my preference.

1) Ex caliber round with M777 Ultra light Howithzer
2) Brahmos
3) Appache
4) Globe Master/Chinooks
5) Rafale/Mirage 2000
My key 11:-
1) Humble Indian Soldier (adequately supplied and with good network of trenches, foxholes and mines, preferably with thermal imagers that Tonbo shipped)
2) Mortars (lots and lots of them. get all mortars from RR battalions and BSF, ITBP, etc).
3) Towed arty (M777, IFG, Bofors, Dhanush) with all available Exaclibur and Kargil numbers of unguided munitions.
4) Weapons locating radar Swathi (I don't think that new mountain warfare version of Swathi is inducted yet)
5) Spike ATGM
6) Himshakti EW system (not sure if inducted)
7) AEW&CS
8) Fighters: Mirage with PGM/Su-30 MKI with Brahmos/Rafale with Meteor
9) Heron UAV
10) LORROS
11) T-90S
 

Haldilal

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Ya'll Nibbiars China is a wake-up call; as a nation we need to wake-up. Stop blaming others, do your part, at the very least. Everything will change, if we change; take the lead. Traffic lights is just a manifestation of our disease called 'mainu ki'; citizens/public servants are mere slogans.

J.P Joshi.
 

Bhadra

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So chineese infantary is a joke ....they can't defend......
How can such a thing be assumed? They have given a good account of themselves in the Korean War against the Us and allied Forces and even in Vietnam. Even against USSR I would say, But those were hardy peasants and rural folks, With such massive urbanization in China today's, the urban lads are goons and not hardy to undergo privation and harsh conditions. One child policy in China has given them sheltered grooming and easy conditions of life.

With modernization and restructuring Chinese have gone in for mechanization but PLA has no real-time experience of Mechanised warfare which demands high degree of training, mental adaptability, flexibility and higher technical acumen. That is yet to be seen.

Bdw now it's time to see how pla will reclaim the heights.......
.,.guys now it's understood ...how difficult is it to defeat ... someone ..if he has heights advantage....
Heights must dominate approaches and it provides tremendous advantages of domination by observation and fire, Height by itself has no meaning. The enemy must be forced to attack if he wishes to advance his operations. However, a determined enemy will capture heights, Only thing is that he need a higher combat ratio. Another thing is that only Infantry can attack and capture a height that would not allow a tank or BMP to climb up so easily.
With modernizations and Mechanisation, the Chinese lack pure hardcore Infantry.
,
Also that Kargil war has learnt many lessons...and now we are implicating on.......
Kargil was a different story where the Pakistani Army mixed with terrorists had occupied very selected height and the defenses did not not have much depth, That is to say, it order to reach the top one did not require to capture one or two companies on your way before coming to the top. Here the defenses will be organized for all-round Defense and in absolute depth and the defenders will have all resources at his disposal to counter-attack and take it back.
It will be Mayhem at ten times more scale than Kargil. That is what the Indian Army will subject PLA to.

Under the present situation, It is the Indian Army that has done Kargil to the Chinese rather than the Chinese original plan.

I can also see another Kargil happening at many places with the Chinese including inside Doklam and may be on Bhutan Border.

It seems the Indian Army has already forced about four to five battalions of PLA to kiss mother earth and take defenses on the ground rather than remaining in Oxygen Barracks.. Mechanized Division has no Infantry and Motorised Division has Motorised Infantry ... both useless for this kind of warfare.

As the day passes the PLA will have an acute shortage of Infantry and all troops of Mechanised elements will have to abandon their tanks and BMP and pick guns to kiss the lovely mother earth if they want to save themselves.
 

Nationalist Manasvi Papa

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We dont need it to kick the Hans arse. The great wall is going to fall and whole world will see the show : emperor Xitler is naked.

No sir we don't but the Hans do and I have a feeling this one may not go full blown nuclear like in movies but tactical nukes will be used by them. How else will Xi the pooh expects his army to win??
 

Bhadra

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Their steel is so shit they have to import indian steel for building infrastructure and still cuz of their shitty engineering skillls and corruption they make shitty stuff example:- 3 george dam
Kya yaar... Jo marji aaye Likh Dete Ho...

Their steel is good and they are the largest producer of steel. They sell it so cheap that they almost shut down the Indian Steel Industry. A special levy had to be imposed on import of Chinese steel so that cronies like TATA or Jindal could survive in India.

They import iron ore from India and sell you steel....

Every big project in India is bid for by the Chinese and their engineering skills are world-class in Infrastructure...

Give the devil his dues .. Yaar..
 

Okabe Rintarou

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How can such a thing be assumed? They have given a good account of themselves in the Korean War against the Us and allied Forces and even in Vietnam. Even against USSR I would say, But those were hardy peasants and rural folks, With such massive urbanization in China today's, the urban lads are goons and not hardy to undergo privation and harsh conditions. One child policy in China has given them sheltered grooming and easy conditions of life.

With modernization and restructuring Chinese have gone in for mechanization but PLA has no real-time experience of Mechanised warfare which demands high degree of training, mental adaptability, flexibility and higher technical acumen. That is yet to be seen.



Heights must dominate approaches and it provides tremendous advantages of domination by observation and fire, Height by itself has no meaning. The enemy must be forced to attack if he wishes to advance his operations. However, a determined enemy will capture heights, Only thing is that he need a higher combat ratio. Another thing is that only Infantry can attack and capture a height that would not allow a tank or BMP to climb up so easily.
With modernizations and Mechanisation, the Chinese lack pure hardcore Infantry.
,


Kargil was a different story where the Pakistani Army mixed with terrorists had occupied very selected height and the defenses did not not have much depth, That is to say, it order to reach the top one did not require to capture one or two companies on your way before coming to the top. Here the defenses will be organized for all-round Defense and in absolute depth and the defenders will have all resources at his disposal to counter-attack and take it back.
It will be Mayhem at ten times more scale than Kargil. That is what the Indian Army will subject PLA to.

Under the present situation, It is the Indian Army that has done Kargil to the Chinese rather than the Chinese original plan.

I can also see another Kargil happening at many places with the Chinese including inside Doklam and may be on Bhutan Border.

It seems the Indian Army has already forced about four to five battalions of PLA to kiss mother earth and take defenses on the ground rather than remaining in Oxygen Barracks.. Mechanized Division has no Infantry and Motorised Division has Motorised Infantry ... both useless for this kind of warfare.

As the day passes the PLA will have an acute shortage of Infantry and all troops of Mechanised elements will have to abandon their tanks and BMP and pick guns to kiss the lovely mother earth if they want to save themselves.
How long do you think it will take for the Indian soldiers who have captured new peaks to get dug in. They will have to create a network of trenches and sangars to ensure that Chinese arty, even if precision guided, can not easily dislodge our infantry from those peaks. To be honest, Chinese precision arty strikes on our infantry holding heights is the only thing about the Chinese buildup that scares me.
 

omaebakabaka

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Did one ever wonder what brought in Maoism and Communism in such numbers and scale in our backyard? The Maoist- Naxal corridor of India got ultimately linked to Nepal via volatile Bihar borders? That has enlarged the Maoist threat and imparted a capability to Nepalis Maoists and Communists to intervene in India's internal affairs.

To my little understanding this a self-inflicted injury. This injury has been inflicted on self by Indian elites desire to see Hinduism out of Nepal, the Hindu King, and his support infrastructure being wiped out and Neapli Army getting dwarfed in size in their influence and effectiveness in Nepal's polity. Communist and Maoists were used as an instrument of Regime Change. How could a super Secular Neighbour which was destroying centuries-old well established Hinduism in India tolerate a Hindu Regime next door? Our RAW or IB honchos and even people like NSA etc have been part of that Super Secular setup or they would have not survived.

Today they are being used by someone else as an instrument of regime change in India .... What a tragedy.... are our National Security honchos so shortsighted and so regime bound that in order to make regime happy they marked on such massive anti-national campaign ??

Well, they are and that is been proved time and again... simply because there no no institutions outside the control of the regime in India who can work at checks and balances on them...
You articulated it very well, I could go on bitching more about gruhshatru's sabotage but then it makes no difference....Modi may be our last chance and blessing, lets hope he brings a positive rejuvenation of our ancient long lost (or damaged) identity.
 

Bhadra

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Curious to know what is the ground situation of Depsang? Do PLA has advantage over there?
Let them sit wherever they are sitting at Depsang... I do not think those positions can be held in winters... Alternatively, Indians only have to look for grounds that render their position vulnerable and untenable even if those pieces of grounds are on the Chinese side of LAC... I think that can be done..

A thrust into Galwan and then Northwards will make them double down To Shiqwan He. They will run like crazy monkeys..
 

omaebakabaka

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In my opinion, logistics holds the key of success in Himalaya. Who so ever is able to maintain supply line will prevails. Globe master/ Chinooks will turn out to be a very important in this area. Infrastructure such as advance landing ground will play a key role in this conflicts. Our population near LAC is our biggest assets. They are supplying vital supply to our troops in this difficult conditions. Smart deployment on southern side of Pangong lake holds the key. What our forces miss here will be ALH and Pralay missile. These weapon are highly specific weapons tailor made for these terrains.
You are correct in some sense but anyone that traveled in China in Tibet and Xinjiang extensively knows how well developed infrastructure in those areas are now vs India....more and more I think we need to equally match them on metal and men all along the border and have enough asymmetric deterrent to prevent PLAF air force's role when it comes to war with India India.
 

N4tsula67

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Indian response ll be knee jerk in a two front as our ammuntion stock ll be stressed. Pakistan shd take that in to calculation. May be india ll do something unexpected and unacceptable to pakistan to send message to china ... Present establishment shd nt be seen with the same perspective as they used to see the old ones ..
In a two front war we have to decide whom to attack and whom we need to hold back. I would say IA will attack pakistan more likely. We have sufficient armed forces to block china in arunachal Pradesh and ladakh region. While our army would more likely to go agressive on Pakistan we might target POK which would a major blow to CPEC. Ofc its just assumptions and it all depends on various factors.
 

omaebakabaka

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Taiwan needs Rafale or tejaS mK1. Tejas Mk1 with Astra mk2 or Meteor like missiles can be very effective against these Chinese aircraft. When Tekas mk2 will come, it will substitute MKI in many roles. It will have a great capability of air raiding enemy territory like we did in Balakot.
Taiwan has enough deterrent to fight with China, they are well trained and have good navy including aeegis class ships and airforce and army. China does not do such risky adventures.
 
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