India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

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Synergy

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Both candidate have an anti china platform but Trump seems a lot more credible.


Donald Trump and Joe Biden are competing to see who is harshest on China
just to point out, it means their population sentiment is heavily anti-China atm. so whoever comes to power, a conflict with China bound to happen.

many people will not like my next statement but, being the 2nd largest market in the world, we also have to help US economy to rebound for our own benifit and for so we might see a US plane in MMRCA as a small contribution towards that.

how it will be if we go for 180/216 2nd hand F16/F18 for the time being until our tbdbf or orca be ready? then the price will be way cheaper, we will have numbers, we will have huge numbers of super sophisticated weapons, we will also taste how US will implement those strings attached to their planes.
it's a wild imagination, but will work for the time being.

P.S. : I will like to point out, war may knock our door within 1/2/5 years.
 

Synergy

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American's need to drop their CAATSA sanction shit everytime India purchases anything from russia. They say India is a key ally and then go and threaten us with sanctions. how can we trust a country like that with equipments like fighter aircrafts
as it's their law, they have to remind that every time.
I'm not sure but I think that implements on any new purchase. maintaining an existing fleet may see waiver.
(I'm not sure. somebody please shed some light on this).
 

garg_bharat

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In an 8,000-word-plus tome, Ray Dalio, billionaire founder of Bridgewater - the world's largest hedge fund, took to LinkedIn to expand on his previous discussions about what happens next geostrategically, fearing economic tensions between the US and China escalating into armed conflict, drawing parallels between the current situation and the years before World War I and World War II.

China's actions are very similar to Germany near second world war.
 

dude00720

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Chinese engine fails for J-20. Thrust requirements failed. They will be using Russian Engine.
 

garg_bharat

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The graph I posted here makes the combination of USA, India and Japan a lethal combination for China. This is something very important.

Also India's military power is now ahead of UK and France. If India can fix its military industrial complex, then India can possibly rise to 0.5 very quickly.
 

Bhadra

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India's Unending Quest for Horses
It is not a great secret to know that Indians always remained mesmerized by Central Asian Horses who started from Afghanistan and rode towards Gangatic plains finally halting at Bay of Bengal. Indian rulers spent fortunes in amassing horses and building large cavalries. Indian rulers tried to find answers to Turkic horse in horses themselves rather than building horse stopping capabilities of their large armies like equipping then with large lancers etc.

The result was that Indian imported horses could not stop the horse riding invaders because they never tried to find an anti horse solution out side the horse.

India repeats that fetal syndrome every time. Now faced with two mechanized / Motorized divisions in Ladakh the horse shit has again started hitting a fan from Chandigarh Lobby. The Mud corps has suddenly found that Their mighty T-72 and T-90 are useless against mighty Chinese light tanks. The Chandigarh arms import lobby has also started scaring us how Bangladesh has become a threat by importing 30 - 40 Chinese light tanks.

I am getting scared remembering OP Parakram when our well fed horses suddenly went blind and were even withdrawn from forward zone by a flamboyant Mud Corps commanders to be replaced by Bhoop Singh..

Are we facing the same prospects in Ladakh ? Indian lobby masters never speak about antitank capabilities of Bhoop Singh, Nag Fiasco, no ATGM imports, great sabotage by IAF by not allowing aviation corps to acquire a suitable ALH or LCH.
They only focussing on light tank and raise the demand for immediately importing it... their interest lie there..

Though people from another lobby are reminding us about BMP Mounted Gun tank and how good / bad it was. some are suggesting L&T to make tanks out of K-9 Vajra.

However no one is talking about solution at hand - Upgrading 2000 odd Vijayants with 1000- 1400 hp engines and deploying those en mass in Ladakh..
Mat hundreds of pill boxes in Depsang is good enough. IA is not planning a dash to Lhasa for the time being..

No one is contemplating deploying a Mechanized brigade in Ladakh as if BMP 2 with two RL detachments has suddenly lost its anti tank value. No one is talking of arming those with Spike ER. The Chandigarh lobby is "Charge with Imported Tank " lobby.

The available solution at hand is Vijayant - the light tank... start upgrading its engine at every conceivable workshop ... that is it.
 
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Bleh

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Bhadra

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LAC standoff | Chinese troops are yet to fully move out, says government official
Chinese troops within 1.5 km of Indian claim line at PP-15, the senior official says.

Chinese troops are yet to fully move out of Patrolling Point (PP) 15 of Hot Springs area in Eastern Ladakh and continue to occupy positions within 1.5 km of India’s perception of the Line of Actual Control (LAC), a second assessment of the ground situation by security agencies has revealed.

Chinese troops had at one stage entered around 5 km on the Indian side of PP-15 in May, and as per a disengagement plan, moved back 2.5 km and another 1 km in subsequent phases and around 1.5 km was yet to be vacated, a senior government official told The Hindu. In this area, Indian troops have also moved back around 2.5 km, the official said.

As reported by The Hindu, there is a moratorium on foot patrol for 30 days and a strength of not more than 80 (50+30 at two intervals) troops at all the friction points where disengagement has been implemented.

After the Galwan Valley incident, the flashpoint of June 15 violent clashes when 20 soldiers were killed, the Corps Commanders of the Indian Army and the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) had agreed to disengage and withdraw fully from other face-off sites along the LAC. They have held four rounds of talks so far on June 6, 22 and 30 and July 14 to disengage and de-escalate from the build-up areas in Gogra- Hot Springs and Finger area along Pangong Tso (lake).

The official said that at some places, disengagement has not been as expected but considerable progress had been made after the talks were scaled up to the level of ‘Special Representative on Boundary Question' on July 5. India was represented by National Security Advisor Ajit Doval and China by Foreign Minister Wang Yi.

“In all the four rounds of Corps Commander talks, it was vehemently impressed upon the Chinese that the pullback of troops as per the disengagement agreement does not mean the final settlement of the boundary. This is temporary,” said the official.

A second official said that after the third round of talks on June 30, it was decided that Chinese troops would completely withdraw from PP-15 in the Hot Springs area.

“Due to the terrain and other factors, the verification process is slow. While the Chinese troops had agreed to move back from PP-15, our assessment finds that they are well within 1.5 km of India’s perception of the LAC,” the official said.

At PP-17, the strength of Chinese troops had reduced from 3,000 to around 150 personnel. Indian and Chinese troops were around 500-600 metres apart here, the official stated, adding that at PP-16, Indian and Chinese troops were positioned almost 20 km away from each other.
The first official said, “At none of the places, there is an eyeball to eyeball deployment now. But we remain cautious of the Chinese claims and this is going to be a long haul”.

Intricate process: Army

The Army said in a statement on Thursday that the disengagement process was “intricate and requires constant verification.”

At Pangong Tso, the Chinese have moved back from Finger 4 to 5. Indian troops also have moved back to Finger 2, almost till the D.S post, the base post in the area where the troops initiated their patrols before the Chinese build-up.

“We are not expecting any change in Pangong all at once. The withdrawal will be done stage-wise and the understanding over this has continuously improved,” said the first official.

The fourth round of Commander level talks on July 14 at Chushul went on for 15 hours, when the two sides worked out details of the next phase of disengagement as well as complete withdrawal of forces along the LAC
 

Mikesingh

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I had a suggestion in this regard...

We have about 85 RR battalions equipped with Infantry mortars whic they never use ...
those all should be brought and deployed in Ladakh. ... it will not efffect the RR in any manner...

Infantry mortars of about six km range is very effective against Infantry, ideal for firing concentrated against infantry and is a great casualty inflictors. I can imagine the effects of ten to twelve mortar platoon deployed on reverse slopes firing on Chinese position. say slopes of Finger five... or opposite Gogra. It will be a total annihilation..
Good idea, but where are you going to get the manpower from to operate them? And training. Surely not from the RR battalions which would deplete their strength by a platoon.
 

Hellfire

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@Hellfire

Any update about depsang plains situation??

There remains a logjam with PLA refusing to budge. Today's Indian Express carried a news article that the Depsang Plains, as per sources, have not come up for discussions.

That is .... nonsense. The obvious glare at Pangong Tso is the reason that the same remains in public glare.

The US' statement yesterday, wherein it was explicit that they will be willing to stand with "friends" is very significant. The recent force accretion in SCS and Indian posture along the LAC, are also indicative that the GoI has decided to let the diplomacy be used at all fronts before taking a call on deployment of forces to evict the Chinese from the points that they have unilaterally occupied, hitherto patrolled by either sides.
 

fire starter

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There remains a logjam with PLA refusing to budge. Today's Indian Express carried a news article that the Depsang Plains, as per sources, have not come up for discussions.

That is .... nonsense. The obvious glare at Pangong Tso is the reason that the same remains in public glare.

The US' statement yesterday, wherein it was explicit that they will be willing to stand with "friends" is very significant. The recent force accretion in SCS and Indian posture along the LAC, are also indicative that the GoI has decided to let the diplomacy be used at all fronts before taking a call on deployment of forces to evict the Chinese from the points that they have unilaterally occupied, hitherto patrolled by either sides.
so military option is on the cards. Didn't we evicted them from hot springs on 15th June.
 
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