India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[omaebakabaka]

That is why LM and TATA were pushing hard for a large F-16 order promising the world in return.
The contract cost would help bankroll the set up costs of a production and service line in an Indian sweatshop.
Win-Win for LM and US MIC.

No one can blame them, maximizing returns on investment is number 1 rule in business. It is only that importers of defense equipment are always going to be suckers especially large countries like us....sorry. My concern is once IAF gets 42 squadrons, it is highly likely they will sabotage Tejas again and DRDO and HAL will become complicit one more time.

 

[LDev]

This was before china escalation, No one with authority can say this now.
i think in another 5 years time, India will have to start thinking about bombers, both for IOR & Tibet.

Correct. Just the PAF is at 20 squadrons and building up to 22 squadrons. And the IAF is down to 30-32. How is the IAF supposed to take on a 2 front war with the PLAAF and PAF with anything less than 50 squadrons?

And for those who keep on saying that the PLAAF has a limited number of airfields in Tibet, how long will it take China with its capacity to build infrastructure to build another 6 in the next 5 years?

 

[omaebakabaka]

Correct. Just the PAF is at 20 squadrons and building up to 22 squadrons. And the IAF is down to 30-32. How is the IAF supposed to take on a 2 front war with the PLAAF and PAF with anything less than 50 squadrons?

And for those who keep on saying that the PLAAF has a limited number of airfields in Tibet, how long will it take China with its capacity to build infrastructure to build another 6 in the next 5 years?

Raw numbers do not matter, there aren't going to be Dresden type WW2 attacks. If we go with that China has 3000 fighters.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

American planes come with strings attached, so f-16 rebranded as f-21 will remain out of question hopefully.

F21 will be procured if they can deliver in weeks. As that will be time frame if we go to war.

IAF has trained extensively with F16s, if i am not wrong Singapore AF had some of its F16 stationed in India for a very long time.

Its the F16 that we can use in caee we need rapid induction, because US MIC can deliver it in shortest time and our boys are trained to use it.

 

[LDev]

You guys are ignoring the trunk for the branches.
50 squadron is all good but what about the weapons and Sub system of those platform? Without weapons even a F 22 is just a shooting target.
Stuff like BVRAAM, LGB, Anti Air Field, Anti armor, Radiation missile and Electronic warfare pods. These things take relatively less cost than a Aircraft.
Start with the small things and build upto BIg things.

Starting point is a homegrown radar. That then given the ability to mix and match PGMs and EW.

 

[Bhadra]

Hi guys
Back with some more insights.
The induction of the ITBP, for point static defense is a huge show of our intent.

Induction means what ? Were not ITBP walas there when Chines reached up to their posts everywhere and sat down in front of them ...

This frees the army for an offensive run, and that is why china is scared

Why were the Chinese allowed to come in and sit where they are. It would have been better to stop that rather than freeing Army today.

Is ITBP really capable of freeing the Army and hold defenses on its own? The answer is No.....

The loss of time in talks has now begun to hurt indian interests, as the chinese are able to reinforce their rear.

OK . But are you worried about the Chinese rear .... ITBP should be worried about what is in front as they are not going to the Rear.

The chinese at moldo, pangong tso are in deep trouble,
But when the shots are fired, our objective is to capture other peaks lost in 62 and then begin the reverse salami starting next year.
The way I see it

Name those features which we lost in 1962 and still required to be occupied. In Pengang Tso sector. Except for Srijap, all features have been held... Area of Fingers should have been held by the ITBP ab Initio. you name the rest areas.

War is inevitable. But the more time we give the chinese, the more they are able to reinforce far off hilltops.

The same is true for us...

War is inevitable because ITBP allowed the Chinese to come in and occupy vital patrolling points, especially in SSN and presented a fate accompli to the nation. .

This is the time to be absolutely frank about it...

 

[LDev]

American planes come with strings attached, so f-16 rebranded as f-21 will remain out of question hopefully.

American engines also come with strings attached. Has that stopped HAL and MOD from powering the LCA with the GE 404/414?

 

[Synergy]

I do not have that info.....but minimal when you spread across the countries vs time to deliver. I worked in the city that manufactured F-18 and still does (not for Boeing) but I worked for different company some years ago though. They mostly rely on export for 4th gen planes now....and very slow production rate.

I've also forgotten the exact number but as far as I can remember that's not a small number.

Fort Worth, Texas plant was producing F16 for a long time and more than 4.5 k F16s were built. they offered to shift that plant to India with > 400 pending orders.

please note, HAL will upgrade plant to 18/20 capacity with 83 Tejas orders (though there will be follow on orders). we can get an idea about capacity of F16 line there from this.

nobody has the capacity is nothing but an excuse and a blatant lie sorry.

 

[ezsasa]

Bhai koi Brahma danda aka brahmand Astra, vaishnav Astra, pashupatastra ka bhi avahan Karo taaki ye chakkar hi khatam Ho.

Tatastu Vats!!!

 

[Gandaberunda]

American engines also come with strings attached. Has that stopped HAL and MOD from powering the LCA with the GE 404/414?

What strings for engine?

 

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

Guys how efficient is our CISF. I have a hunch that the war with China will involve not only small battles on LAC , Pakistan ,traitors inside but everything and anything that makes us strong.

There will be internal threats that are looking to destabilize India from the inside especially the Commies and Jihadis. War with China is perfect time for them. India will be most vulnerable during these times as our resources will be primarily focused on China and Pakistan. I don’t believe CISF alone can hold the line down against internal enemies inside India. India needs to create more All India Paramilitary Forces and CAPFs. Assam Rifles are the only true Paramilitary force in India and but they are restricted to the Northeast for the most part. Rashtriya Rifles are structured similar to a Paramilitary Force but is still part of the Indian Army and are located in J&K UT.

 

[ezsasa]

At that point, operationally it becomes more complex when you think about it. Range is one factor.....when runways are destroyed.....didn't Pakis almost threaten even Ambala in one of their offensive initiation (I think its 71 but don't remember).....there will be enough with 32 to 42 squads to fill in losses. I think IAF plans that way....we are nuclear for a reason.....any overwhelming force from multiple fronts that puts our existence at stake will lead to nuclear retaliation....otherwise why do we have it?

Take into consideration what Saurav Jha also said recently.

You need to take CAPS into consideration, because that's what IAF does most of the times and during high alert season like the current times CAPS are only increase. if you keep using air superiority fighters for aggressive caps, it has it's own side effects.

CAPS also squeeze the life out of the aircraft, having larger number of squads distributes the service life depreciation among larger number of aircrafts.

 

[LDev]

Raw numbers do not matter, there aren't going to be Dresden type WW2 attacks. If we go with that China has 3000 fighters.

Raw numbers do matter. If China realizes that the LAC has become like the LOC and with the rate that they are manufacturing, they will be able to deploy 20-25 squadrons against the IAF, a combination of J-10Cs, J-11Ds, J-20s and H-6s. Couple that with the PAF. Every single IAF commander has been crying out for increasing IAF squadron numbers to at least the sanctioned 42.

 

[tigerhill]

News is being released with deliberate delay so I'm guessing Mountain Strike Corps had arrived already. They wouldn't let it be known unless they were fully operational already
Good evening, Sir.

May I inquire of you something? Are we looking at more involvement of Ethnic Tibetan personnel to rile up the Chinese? Is poking the hornets nest in Tibet on the cards?

most certainly..
One china policy is stage 2

 

[samsaptaka]

An example of what our soldiers are facing, this is near pak border but one can imagine.

Hats off to our brave soldiers ! I can feel the tension in his voice . Thanks guru share madidakke!

 

[LDev]

What strings for engine?

That was a rhetorical answer!! My point is that if the IAF has gone in for C-17s, C-130s, P-8s, M-777s, Apaches and Chinooks, your ba**s are already in US hands. To now say that you are afraid of US sanctions for US fighters is nuts!!.

 

[Bhadra]

Hi guys
Back with some more insights.
The induction of the ITBP, for point static defense is a huge show of our intent.

Induction means what ? Were not they there when Chines reached up to their posts everywhere and sat down in front of them ...

This frees the army for an offensive run, and that is why china is scared

Why were Chinese allowed to comein and sit where they are. It would have been better to do that rather than freeing Army .

Is ITBP really capable of freeing the Army and hold defences on its own? The answer is No.

The loss of time in talks has now begun to hurt indian interests, as the chinese are able to reinforce their rear.

OK . But are you worried about their rear .... ITBP should be worried about what is in front as they are not going to the rear..

The chinese at moldo, pangong tso are in deep trouble,
But when the shots are fired, our objective is to capture other peaks lost in 62 and then begin the reverse salami starting next year.
The way I see it

Name those features which we lost in 1962 and still required to be occupied. In Pengang Tso sector. Except for Srijap, all features have been held... you name the rest.

War is inevitable. But the more time we give the chinese, the more they are able to reinforce far off hilltops.

The same is true for us...

War is inevitable because ITBP allowed the Chinese to come in and occupy vital patrolling points, especially in SSN.

This is the time to be absolutely frank about it...

 

[sorcerer]

Indian, Chinese militaries hold Brigade Commander-level interaction in eastern Ladakh

Indian, Chinese militaries hold Brigade Commander-level interaction in eastern Ladakh | India News - Times of India

India News: Indian and Chinese militaries on Sunday held another round of talks in eastern Ladakh to calm tensions even as the situation remained "delicate" with

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[Bhurki]

F21 will be procured if they can deliver in weeks. As that will be time frame if we go to war.

IAF has trained extensively with F16s, if i am not wrong Singapore AF had some of its F16 stationed in India for a very long time.

Its the F16 that we can use in caee we need rapid induction, because US MIC can deliver it in shortest time and our boys are trained to use it.

Pilots can't be trained on a new jet in weeks.
It takes on an average 200 hrs of flight time to learn Basic fighting manuevers and then more to learn BVR, Ew etc. The fighters may get to IAF within weeks, but I'm not sure there are squadrons of IAF pilots combat trained for F16 just sitting around.

 

[sorcerer]

Amid standoff with China, Nimmu-Padam-Darcha road nears completion

Amid standoff with China, Nimmu-Padam-Darcha road nears completion

www.indiatoday.in