India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[Gandaberunda]

Our frontier villagers always backs our forces and help in eventuality
There are lot of articles regarding Gilgit baltistan and skardu villagers cooking extra food in village anticipation of army jawans coming in need during skirmish/ War.

 

[LDev]

Read my post again in case you missed something as I put up economy and heights.

Anyone who is making a calculation in terms of "sq kms" needs some basic lessons first even if he is some Super Marshal in US.

Gain few kms in Thar desert and then gain some sq inch in Punjab. Apples and Oranges. Seems like negative thinking can't end ever in India. If this was Pakis Vs India then Pakis would have claimed victory. As an example they claim Pakis won since they hold point 5353.

I hope you got my point and don't quote from that BRF to base your claims to be right. Kinda disappointing BRF post of self inflicting moral down.

There was an interesting discussion a few weeks ago on Stratnewsglobal where one of Nitin Gokhale's guest, a retired Lt. General said that one of the problems at the LAC has been overlapping control. MEA negotiates the LAC and the Army is supposed to defend it to the sq. inch. That is plain wrong according to him. The Army will always want a militarily defensible LAC and the LAC as defined by the MEA has not been militarily defensible and hence the loss of territory to the Chinese. And it looks like from the actions of August 29/30 the Army has got it's wish.

 

[ezsasa]

Read the European Hotchpotch :

Prolongation of the India - China standoff at the LAC may lead to sharper Indian focus on the Tibet issue

www.efsas.org

Looks like "Human Rights" groups are scouting for their next business venture, this time using Tibet.

 

[mokoman]

सीमा पर तनाव:ब्लैक टॉप माउंटेन पर डटे हमारे सैनिकों की मुफ्त में मदद कर रहे गांवों के लोग

www.arya-tv.com)चीन से चल रहे विवाद के बीच लद्दाख स्थित पैंगॉन्ग झील के दक्षिणी किनारे की प्रमुख चोटियों के कुछ अहम मोर्चों पर भारतीय सेना के जवानों ने झंडा गाड़ दिया है। इस इलाके के आसपास के गांव के लोग भारतीय जवानाें की मदद कर रहे हैं। चुशूल गांव के करीब 60 लोग ब्लैक टॉप माउंटेन पर पानी और जरूरी च

arya-tv.com

Photo taken from top of Black Top .

Chinese SM says its from Table Top ,

 

[omaebakabaka]

We cannot bleed airframe life of our best fighters for CAPs.. Considering our long hostile frontiers with China and Pakistan.. we also need the numbers in case of a long attrition war against China.. Although domestic fighters are preferable the domestic industry alone cant give us the necessary number of fighters in the next five years.. So, we go for LCA MK1A, MWF, ORCA and well as one 4.5 generation decent fighter like F-16.. Also, considering the sheer numbers of F-16s operated by airforces worldwide managing spares will not be a problem even when Assembly lines shut down in the US.. Also, 30 percent offsets can be used to make Lockheed manufacture more spares here in India.. Also we need to bump up defense spending to over 3 percent of GDP like in the 70s and 80s..

CAP's occur at a higher frequency when there are tense situations, in next 5 years no where in the world can you buy new or 2nd hand (preferably with in the first 2 standard deviations in terms of airframe hours) to get to 50 squads build up . Most french and American ones have about 6k to 10k hours per airframe on their modern versions which is another reason why 42 squads is not considered a must by IAF anymore. Back then reliability was less....so more squads.....Bulk of the IAF needs to be domestic to sustain a war with China, even if its not top notch we can match in quantity if its local. We can also export Tejas if we adapt in numbers to to other countries. 90% of the world countries do not need American/French level quality or tech. Offsets are not proven yet, lot of talk at the moment.

 

[fire starter]

Are you telling me Despang plains are insignificant?
I think sometimes we need to have realistic analysis too. Otherwise we would be no different than Pakis.

Not whole depsang plane is under China control even if we don't patrol in our perception area we will still enjoy tactical position there to stop any China armoured thrust. But for China loss of those heights is huge since their whole positions in South pangong are vulnerable.

 

[Synergy]

From BRF. He couldn't have summed it up better.

View attachment 58230

firstly, it's not a game of they have taken xKm and we've taken yKm. it's the change in mentality. earlier they used to come and do salami slicing. but now we are also answering that.

who said we are not blocking them in and around Spanggur gap? they came to capture those points but retreated. what does that mean?

we've capture Reqin and that's a statement to them.

we are also present on f4 ridge line and our positions have strategic advantage. then how has f3 lost?

why are we hearing so much rattling noise from China?

Galwan incident and then 29/30 Aug has shown that our military is superior to them at this point in time.

main point is, our mentality has changed.

now you decide who has the upper hand.

 

[Gandaberunda]

There was an interesting discussion a few weeks ago on Stratnewsglobal where one of Nitin Gokhale's guest, a retired Lt. General said that one of the problems at the LAC has been overlapping control. MEA negotiates the LAC and the Army is supposed to defend it to the sq. inch. That is plain wrong according to him. The Army will always want a militarily defensible LAC and the LAC as defined by the MEA has not been militarily defensible and hence the loss of territory to the Chinese. And it looks like from the actions of August 29/30 the Army has got it's wish.

One thing now is certain after Black top capture is that military is tasked to set objectives and attain those and political MEA/ MoD side will fall in line according to the objectives set by army.
This gives our Army edge in border skirmishes and securing our borders

 

[HawkisRight]

Read the European Hotchpotch :

Prolongation of the India - China standoff at the LAC may lead to sharper Indian focus on the Tibet issue

www.efsas.org

Boss this shit is Dope...

 

[Synergy]

We do not need 900 fighters, what we do need is about 500 to 600 modern fighters and we can achieve that by replaceing mig-21s in current fleet. We do indeed need Tejas and totally domestic fighters that are capable of matching the mid-level performance section of our neighbors fleets. This is the only way to develop domestic industry and reduce wealth migration by importing only topnotch in the top section of the fleet pyramid.

AVM Tipnis stated/estimated we need 50 squadrons to effectively counter any 2 front war.

 

[sorcerer]

India calls China’s bluff in Chushul | Analysis

After the Indian Army called the bluff of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) on the Rezang La ridgeline on August 29-30, India is prepared for a long haul in Ladakh with clear cut directions to the front-line troops not to yield to any Chinese intimidation.

While both the military and diplomatic channels are open between the two countries, the Indian Army riposte in the last week of August must have had a sobering effect on the adversary with the situation attaining criticality at the Rezang La ridgeline in Chushul sector.

India calls China’s bluff in Chushul

India is negotiating peace and tranquility on Ladakh border while keeping a strong posture on the LAC.

www.hindustantimes.com

 

[omaebakabaka]

AVM Tipnis stated/estimated we need 50 squadrons to effectively counter any 2 front war.

Different world back then....more recent ones quoted we do not need even 42 squads due to increase in reliability...in any case if you want 50 squads then go after Tejas.....we can even have 100.

 

[Gandaberunda]

Army chief and IAF chief both from same batch

 

[mist_consecutive]

सीमा पर तनाव:ब्लैक टॉप माउंटेन पर डटे हमारे सैनिकों की मुफ्त में मदद कर रहे गांवों के लोग

www.arya-tv.com)चीन से चल रहे विवाद के बीच लद्दाख स्थित पैंगॉन्ग झील के दक्षिणी किनारे की प्रमुख चोटियों के कुछ अहम मोर्चों पर भारतीय सेना के जवानों ने झंडा गाड़ दिया है। इस इलाके के आसपास के गांव के लोग भारतीय जवानाें की मदद कर रहे हैं। चुशूल गांव के करीब 60 लोग ब्लैक टॉप माउंटेन पर पानी और जरूरी च

arya-tv.com

Photo taken from top of Black Top .

Chinese SM says its from Table Top ,

It is from Yellow Top, the black mountain you see on the left is Black top mountain.

Same view from yellow top.

 

[Synergy]

Different world back then....more recent ones quoted we do not need even 42 squads due to increase in reliability...in any case if you want 50 squads then go after Tejas.....we can even have 100.

link please.

 

[HawkisRight]

Tibet is d new talk guys....Tibet is becoming very regular in discussions...here Nitin Gokhale discusses that India should start making historical claims on menser enclave, Mt. Kailash, Tibetan Sovereignty also Indic connection with Xinkiang

 

[shaktishivashakti]

This was in line with Beijing’s long-term ambitions to bypass the Strait of Malacca, a narrow chokepoint between the Malay Peninsula and the Indonesian island of Sumatra that divides the Indian and Pacific Oceans.

Please explain to a lay person how the canal would have been advantageous for PL navy. For me, a destroyer or a fisher boat navigating in a canal is an easier target than a destroyer or fisher boat in high sea ! Further more, the exit of the canal will be situated right in front of Andaman island ?

 

[ezsasa]

Different world back then....more recent ones quoted we do not need even 42 squads due to increase in reliability...

This was before china escalation, No one with authority can say this now.
i think in another 5 years time, India will have to start thinking about bombers, both for IOR & Tibet.

 

[omaebakabaka]

link please.

I think it was in one of the interview of "Patriots" episodes by Gaurav Arya to Vice Marshal Barborosa (sorry about the name)....explicitly asked by Gaurav about 42 squads and fleet replacement. Even Former DM Sitaraman said that 42 is not achievable even if we are ready to write the check....UPA saw to it that fleet is utterly depleted.

 

[Suryavanshi]

You guys are ignoring the trunk for the branches.
50 squadron is all good but what about the weapons and Sub system of those platform? Without weapons even a F 22 is just a shooting target.
Stuff like BVRAAM, LGB, Anti Air Field, Anti armor, Radiation missile and Electronic warfare pods. These things take relatively less cost than a Aircraft.
Start with the small things and build upto BIg things.