India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[Waanar]

As everyone knows I speak very harshly because I speak absolute truths and not jingoism.

I will not indulge in arguments or stuff because no hard feelings but, bro, you speak your truth, not THE truth. A guy advocating for opposition to mount pressure on the incumbent government to go to war is not being a 'viper in our midst'. It's just a very classic tactic to force the government to do what you want. We want war for getting back our areas, don't we now?

 

[Knowitall]

In the events leading up to Israel's Six day war's glorious initial preemptive strikes and later, Egypt's own preempt at the start of the Yom Kippur war, both countries made local media publish articles which badgered their own armed forces for a lack of preparation and even soldiers being on vacation during military buildup to make the enemy complacent.

Please stay calm. Wait for something to happen (or not happen) before drawing sweeping conclusions and repeating the same "They gave up, there'll be no war" kind of statement.
I know most of you are not narrow minded and are open to the idea of a military conflict but it's getting redundant seeing the same thing repeated over and over again by the pessimists and then optimists like me coming and talking about the inevitable wait.

I'm a bit frustrated myself due to this inaction and have been on a rant but hopefully everything will be clear very soon. Winter is just around the corner and the first snow has started to fall. Soon everything will be very clear.

I think the pent up frustration you are witnessing currently from multiple forum members some very vocal about it others less is due to the the realization dawning among people here that we are running out of time.

A lot of people few weeks back including me were convinced that we are preparing and action is guaranteed in coming months.

Nothing of that sort has happened and now people are concerned.

 

[vampyrbladez]

I will not indulge in arguments or stuff because no hard feelings but, bro, you speak your truth, not THE truth. A guy advocating for opposition to mount pressure on the incumbent government to go to war is not being a 'viper in our midst'. It's just a very classic tactic to force the government to do what you want. We want war for getting back our areas, don't we now?

An opposition like the one we have is one we cannot wish on even China. These idiot buffoons see beyond corruption and petty gain.

Heck they tried to get a crucial fighter jet deal cancelled so that they could earn commision from a rival company.

The GoI has already positioned troops and materiel at key positions and now the long wait for winter begins.

As for getting back our territory, we need PoK and CoL back. Small time skirmish doesn't pay dividends before any international peace agreement.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Useless arguments India has fought multiple wars with same ofb you keep talking about they are not good everyone knows it but they will manage.

Also India has previously roped in private players for their help and can do the same again.

If I remember correctly baba kalyani was supplying us with artillery shells.

Your point stands moot simply because history says other wise OFB as a choice is far from ideal but this combination has worked before and India is in a even better position now.

It doesn't work anymore.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.hind...-munger/story-J5Yljw7SUcXF2SRBjpQCAM_amp.html

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/kol...-of-arms-parts/amp_articleshow/60787543.cmsvv

 

[Knowitall]

It doesn't work anymore.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.hind...-munger/story-J5Yljw7SUcXF2SRBjpQCAM_amp.html

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/kol...-of-arms-parts/amp_articleshow/60787543.cmsvv

Dude what you linked an article that's from 2018??

All the articles I posted for you to see are late 2019 things have changed a lot by then as most our critical shortages have been addressed.

The second link does not open.

And what is even the aim of the first article???

Ex-army man suspected of reassembling arms using parts stolen from army depots and selling them to Maoists.

Okay so? They caught him right things like this happen this is not something that happens only in India.

‘Easy money’ made selling Army weapons stolen by US soldiers

More than $1 million in weapons parts and sensitive military equipment was stolen out of Fort Campbell, Kentucky, and sold in a vast black market, some of it to foreign buyers through eBay, according to testimony at a federal trial this week.

www.armytimes.com

Three Fort Drum soldiers charged with stealing guns in St. Lawrence County

Three Fort Drum soldiers are charged with stealing guns and ammunition from two gun shops in St. Lawrence County. If convicted, the three could face up to 10 years in federal prison.

www.northcountrypublicradio.org

11 rifles and thousands of bullets lost or stolen from Army, MOD admits amid fears they could be in hands of criminals

Over 1,000 bullets and 11 guns have been lost or stolen from the Army, the Ministry of Defence has admitted amid fears they could be in the hands of criminals.

www.telegraph.co.uk

https://www.thelocal.de/20170512/thieves-break-into-german-army-tank-steal-weapons

This literally happens everywhere this is not some "only in India" thing. Stop giving worthless arguments.

 

[Hari Sud]

What is the military option India has what the CDS is hinting at.?....... Is it to occupy Chinese land in Tibet or Sinkiang and then exchange it with when Chinese leave Indian land. Or is it a frontal attack at key points to drive them out? I prefer to get as close to the Chinese road in Ladakh and threaten to cut it, in case of a shooting war.

Either way Pakistan will have to be restrained and the only way to do it is to have US on our side.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Nepalis claim Entire Bihar, Sikkim and Himachal Pradesh and some parts of Uttarakhand we have to treat Nepal the way they deserve to be treated not the Madheshis ,Mongolians or other pro India community but the anti India communities in Nepal needs to be sidelined systematically

Mate do u even listen what others are saying? Or just go on a mindless mumble trip on your own.
Diversity exists in each and every country that not the issue.
25% of the population is madhesi and hardly 10% are of mongolian stock.

Spoiler

Besides the Tribals of Nepal hate us more than anyone else in Nepal, incidentally they are the ones being hunted by Soul harvesters, tribals have weak roots and belif system so they get easily brainwashed.

Anyways the issue of Nepal didn't happen overnight it took years to reach this point.
During Nepals struggle for democracy we had Congress in power which was least concerned about India's strategic interests. Even before Congress there was no System in place to manage foreign relation.
Neplas Political revolution remained unchecked by us and when we did give attention to them we realized it was too late.

There is a reason why Foreign countries invest in Think tank that monitor politics culture and society, they are meant to access the ground situation to aid policy making of their respective countries.

Beti Roti is superficial stuff it dosent work

 

[Haldilal]

Nepalis claim Entire Bihar, Sikkim and Himachal Pradesh and some parts of Uttarakhand we have to treat Nepal the way they deserve to be treated not the Madheshis ,Mongolians or other pro India community but the anti India communities in Nepal needs to be sidelined systematically

First you Change your flag from Nepali to this and then talk about Mongolians and whatever.

To your mongolians ethnicity.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Dude what you linked an article that's from 2018??

All the articles I posted for you to see are late 2019 things have changed a lot by then as most our critical shortages have been addressed.

The second link does not open.

And what is even the aim of the first article???

Ex-army man suspected of reassembling arms using parts stolen from army depots and selling them to Maoists.

Okay so? They caught him right things like this happen this is not something that happens only in India.

‘Easy money’ made selling Army weapons stolen by US soldiers

More than $1 million in weapons parts and sensitive military equipment was stolen out of Fort Campbell, Kentucky, and sold in a vast black market, some of it to foreign buyers through eBay, according to testimony at a federal trial this week.

www.armytimes.com

Three Fort Drum soldiers charged with stealing guns in St. Lawrence County

Three Fort Drum soldiers are charged with stealing guns and ammunition from two gun shops in St. Lawrence County. If convicted, the three could face up to 10 years in federal prison.

www.northcountrypublicradio.org

11 rifles and thousands of bullets lost or stolen from Army, MOD admits amid fears they could be in hands of criminals

Over 1,000 bullets and 11 guns have been lost or stolen from the Army, the Ministry of Defence has admitted amid fears they could be in the hands of criminals.

www.telegraph.co.uk

https://www.thelocal.de/20170512/thieves-break-into-german-army-tank-steal-weapons

This literally happens everywhere this is not some "only in India" thing. Stop giving worthless arguments.

Issue is that weapons from OFB are ending up with Maoists.

In the middle of a flare up with China, OFB is thinking of Strike.

Stop defending these fools and start cracking the whip!

 

[Mikesingh]

This is the probably the first time that a top Government or Military official has openly and publicly advocated military action to undo the Chinese aggression.
This is putting the Chinese on notice. How much time we are willing to give for negotiations is unknown. But a positive statement as it displays resolve and willpower to fight.

But having made such an statement we should not back down as the credibility of the nation is at stake. I am sure that the entire country will stand as one if we have to drive back the PLA by using force.

We are learning from Chinese Psyops. They did a pretty spectacular job during the Dokhlam crisis as well as the prologue to the present situation in Ladakh by threatening India with 'dire consequences' and showing off their weaponry in media to try and put the fear of God in us so we back down. But unfortunately for them, it turned out to be a damp squib which had no effect.

But will the Chinese cower under Indian threats/ psyops and back down? That's the million dollar question! Let's wait and see!

 

[ezsasa]

We are learning from Chinese Psyops. They did a pretty spectacular job during the Dokhlam crisis as well as the prologue to the present situation in Ladakh by threatening India with 'dire consequences' and showing off their weaponry in media to try and put the fear of God in us so we back down. But unfortunately for them, it turned out to be a damp squib which had no effect.

But will the Chinese cower under Indian threats/ psyops and back down? That's the million dollar question! Let's wait and see!

CCP need not cower under Indian threats, they want a face saving exit and GoI is in no mood to give it to them at this point in time.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

So, Pakis are getting a new frigate from Chinkis.. And Pakis in twitter are barking about these frigates taking on Indian Navy by posting pics of our Kolkata class Destroyers... LOL They can't even say the difference between a frigate and a destroyer... Where is our troll squad??.. Deploy them in those barking dogs....

 

[scatterStorm]

Now you know why he wasn't selected by bjp.

He doesn't mince words he is a fearless fellow who is advocating for hard action.

IMHO, he is a Jingo. Sometimes cool headedness is required. We ain't fighting napak pak-army here. We may fight an enemy with capabilities much better than what we are at present. So these talks are going over and over until there next chess piece makes the move.

I do have to say, that time is also critical here, if we are giving more time, than its going to bolster them anyways.

 

[Knowitall]

Issue is that weapons from OFB are ending up with Maoists.

In the middle of a flare up with China, OFB is thinking of Strike.

Stop defending these fools and start cracking the whip!

I'm not interested in defending them I understand your concerns regarding OFB and I would myself prefer to see them go this is something I mentioned a few posts back.

The point here is If there was a war we can manage through a public private combination as we have in previous wars.

Infact Indian private sector today is much better equipped to take on orders than it was a few decades back.

Using OFB as a scapegoat for inaction won't work India has waged wars with the same OFB's previously it can do it again private sector will also be of great help.

 

[Srinivas_K]

India went to war in 1971 with a then somewhat military equivalent power.

With half our military in the middle of upgrades, you fight with what you have vs what you want.

China very cleverly used 2004-2015/16 to fully upgrade it's military. We didn't.

They are moving from QBZ-95 to QBZ-191. We are moving from INSAS to Sig 716i with half the rifles still under order and the AK-203 to start production in October.

Pakistan is never a military equivalent power to India. I mean in the sense the Human Resource’s, economy and diplomacy which support the military.

 

[cereal killer]

IMHO, he is a Jingo. Sometimes cool headedness is required. We ain't fighting napak pak-army here. We may fight an enemy with capabilities much better than what we are at present. So these talks are going over and over until there next chess piece makes the move.

I do have to say, that time is also critical here, if we are giving more time, than its going to bolster them anyways.

You see only Hardcore nationalist type of people are successful in J&K. The last of them was Governor Jugmohan.. KP's still thank him for facilitating their escape. Gawkadal massacre Where 100's of terrorists were killed along with their accomplices were all done by him. There is no reason why GD Bakshi couldn't have done the same. We Should not stereotype that military men can't handle things no matter how hard core they are.

 

[Mikesingh]

CCP need not cower under Indian threats, they want a face saving exit and GoI is in no mood to give it to them at this point in time.

Let's face it. The PLA is most likely NOT going to exit/withdraw from Pangong Tso area to pre 1999 positions when they illegally built a road beyond Finger 5 from Sirijap as own troops had been withdrawn for the Kargil ops. The PLA then had a free hand to consolidate their positions. At most they will probably withdraw to Finger 5 thus occupying an area of approx 25 sq kms from our Claim Line along Finger 8.

Since they are not going to withdraw, are we going in for an offensive (as the CDS hinted) in the Pangong Tso area to dislodge them which needless to say would fire up the entire LAC? Interesting times ahead!

 

[ezsasa]

You see only Hardcore nationalist type of people are successful in J&K. The last of them was Governor Jugmohan.. KP's still thank him for facilitating their escape. Gawkadal massacre Where 100's of terrorists were killed along with their accomplices were all done by him. There is no reason why GD Bakshi couldn't have done the same. We Should not stereotype that military men can't handle things no matter how hard core they are.

GD Bhakshi saheb is more useful to the nation outside the govt than inside, inside the govt he won’t be able speak freely as he does now.

India has enough good administrators to pick from, need of the hour is thinkers, motivators , people with new ideas & people who can inspire next generations.

 

[Indrajit]

IMHO, he is a Jingo. Sometimes cool headedness is required. We ain't fighting napak pak-army here. We may fight an enemy with capabilities much better than what we are at present. So these talks are going over and over until there next chess piece makes the move.

I do have to say, that time is also critical here, if we are giving more time, than its going to bolster them anyways.

Maj. Gen GD Bakshi is underrated by most who dismiss him as just a “Jingo”. He has an extraordinarily distinguished record, has a PhD in military history authored many books and has tasted personal loss with the death of his brother in 1965. Someone who put his money where his mouth was and showed immense courage.

A good read:

You have seen him on TV, but who is Gen GD Bakshi?

Major General Gagandeep Bakshi (retd) is possibly India’s most famous thinking and talking military veteran, certainly the most popular with the resurgent nationalists. Author of several well-researched

news.abplive.com

 

[Tridev123]

We are learning from Chinese Psyops. They did a pretty spectacular job during the Dokhlam crisis as well as the prologue to the present situation in Ladakh by threatening India with 'dire consequences' and showing off their weaponry in media to try and put the fear of God in us so we back down. But unfortunately for them, it turned out to be a damp squib which had no effect.

But will the Chinese cower under Indian threats/ psyops and back down? That's the million dollar question! Let's wait and see!

Having gone public and served something equal to an ultimatum we cannot backtrack without losing face. I understand the compulsions behind opening the military option.

It is not a simple question of regaining a few square kilometres of land. It is standing up for principles and justice. This is not the first time that the Chinese have bullied us and won't be the last if we don't make the costs prohibitive for them.

We cannot keep on brushing such incidents under the carpet. We need to draw a line. Just like the Chinese say Taiwan independence will invite a PLA invasion India needs to establish red lines.

The present international situation is conducive for India as there is widespread distrust of China in light of the Corona Virus problem which originated from China.
India will in all probability receive Western support.

Of course we will have to pay a cost. But remember we did not initiate this crisis. The Chinese bear the responsibility.

Nobody wants war. Let's hope Xi and his generals realise the seriousness of the situation and take wise decisions. We are not claiming Tibet. We only want status quo ante, the return to April 2020 positions by both sides.

Hope for sense to prevail but keep our powder dry and ready.