India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[Sanglamorre]

Might be possible that this is probably the last round of talks with Rawat's statement that military actions on table if talks fail. These kind of statements are precursor to a proper ultimatum.

Come on. We've seen this again and again. Talka don't fail when Indian Babus are involved. An inclusive talk is just another chai biscoot session waiting to happen next time.

Have you played any RPG games? In those games, there's usually a story set up to explain events in game, or cool description added to weapons and stuff which don't really add anything except coolness. It's called a flavour text.


"military options on table" is GoI's flavour text.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Might be possible that this is probably the last round of talks with Rawat's statement that military actions on table if talks fail. These kind of statements are precursor to a proper ultimatum.

The fact that they are announcing this.

 

[cereal killer]

It'll just be Indira Gandhi and Sam Manekshaw redux then. At least IG went to war, we have our current PM feeding peacocks instead like one of those peacetime royal paintings.

Rawat will gain immense public support if he goes to media & spills the beans. Opposition will back him & Modi will be under pressure to save his hard earned PR. They'll all fall in line.

 

[Cactus09]

Come on. We've seen this again and again. Talka don't fail when Indian Babus are involved. An inclusive talk is just another chai biscoot session waiting to happen next time.

Have you played any RPG games? In those games, there's usually a story set up to explain events in game, or cool description added to weapons and stuff which don't really add anything except coolness. It's called a flavour text.


"military options on table" is GoI's flavour text.

This quote sums up my reply

 

[vampyrbladez]

It'll just be Indira Gandhi and Sam Manekshaw redux then. At least IG went to war, we have our current PM feeding peacocks instead like one of those peacetime royal paintings.

India went to war in 1971 with a then somewhat military equivalent power.

With half our military in the middle of upgrades, you fight with what you have vs what you want.

China very cleverly used 2004-2015/16 to fully upgrade it's military. We didn't.

They are moving from QBZ-95 to QBZ-191. We are moving from INSAS to Sig 716i with half the rifles still under order and the AK-203 to start production in October.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Rawat will gain immense public support if he goes to media & spills the beans. Opposition will back him & Modi will be under pressure to save his hard earned PR. They'll all fall in line.

So you want a pro CCP opposition who signed MoU in 2008 with China to 'back' our soldiers? They will most likely be 'back stabbed.'

Never imagined the shadow of war would reveal vipers like you in our midst.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Nepalis claim Entire Bihar, Sikkim and Himachal Pradesh and some parts of Uttarakhand we have to treat Nepal the way they deserve to be treated not the Madheshis ,Mongolians or other pro India community but the anti India communities in Nepal needs to be sidelined systematically

 

[Waanar]

Never imagined the shadow of war would reveal vipers like you in our midst.

Too harsh bro.
He's just putting forth his opinion and it's not too far from the truth. He just might've forgotten about that one MoU.

 

[tarunraju]

India went to war in 1971 with a then somewhat military equivalent power.

With half our military in the middle of upgrades, you fight with what you have vs what you want.

China very cleverly used 2004-2015/16 to fully upgrade it's military. We didn't.

They are moving from QBZ-95 to QBZ-191. We are moving from INSAS to Sig 716i with half the rifles still under order and the AK-203 to start production in October.

Right, then the proper thing to do when unprepared is:

• Tell the Indian public that the Chinese have invaded our territory and entrenched, and that they pose a tactical superiority, and that our military has done just about enough to halt their advance and prevent an escalation. If you're being honest about battle fatalities, carry that honesty forward to everything
• Open a diplomatic onslaught against China, starting with the UN. Instead of spending millions on chai and biscuits, give that money to the BBC, CNN, NYT, WaPo, and start media warfare against China
• Start tossing Chinese companies out of the Indian market by the dozens, and not just social media apps. "Act of war" and "threat of war" can be rubbed on the WTO's faces.
• Place a civilian airspace access ban on all Chinese aircraft, including foreign aircraft using Indian airspace to enter PRC airspace (or vice versa). Even an Emirates flying from Dubai to Tokyo cannot use Indian airspace if its flight-plan goes through PRC airspace). Force airlines to use the dangerous and 30% longer route over Pakistan and Xinjiang. Rub "war" on ICAO's face.
• Assure the Indian public that India will respond militarily to China when it's ready
• Kick start defense production, order 180 Rafales fly-away. Tell HAL "give us 18 Tejas per year or we dissolve you"

^Those are the things an honest-to-God democratic government would have done, instead of feeding peacocks. The Indian voter would have taken Modi's word for it, just for being honest upfront.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Right, then the proper thing to do when unprepared is:

• Tell the Indian public that the Chinese have invaded our territory and entrenched, and that they pose a tactical superiority. If you're being honest about battle fatalities, carry that honesty forward to everything
• Open a diplomatic onslaught against China, starting with the UN.
• Start tossing Chinese companies out of the Indian market by the dozens, and not just social media apps. "Act of war" and "threat of war" can be rubbed on the WTO's faces.
• Place a civilian airspace access ban on all Chinese aircraft, including foreign aircraft using Indian airspace to enter PRC airspace (or vice versa). Even an Emirates flying from Dubai to Tokyo cannot use Indian airspace if its flight-plan goes through PRC airspace). Force airlines to use the dangerous and 30% longer route over Pakistan and Xinjiang.
• Assure the Indian public that India will respond militarily to China when it's ready
• Kick start defense production

^Those are the things an honest-to-God democratic government would have done, instead of feeding peacocks. The Indian voter would have taken Modi's word for it, just for being honest upfront.

Sirji if you have been following the news, all this has been done. In economic front China is hurting badly.

Problem is that we are in the middle of the biggest upgrade since the 1980s. Chinese have finished their homework and we are about to be done with it.

They took the initiative to escalate tensions. War was supposed to start in June, 2020. 16 Bihar bought India time.

Now it is up to us to equip ASAP and purge organisations like the OFB.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.econ...eliable-supplier/amp_articleshow/77687563.cms

 

[vampyrbladez]

Too harsh bro.
He's just putting forth his opinion and it's not too far from the truth. He just might've forgotten about that one MoU.

As everyone knows I speak very harshly because I speak absolute truths and not jingoism.

The absolute truth is some Babus used Indian Army as a cash cow and did not let MIC develop in India.

Same Babus are now retired in UK and US with their children studying in Harvard and Oxford. Only ordinary citizens like us have to now pay the bill.

All the efforts over last 5 years in pure catchup to 30 years of inaction.

 

[Sanglamorre]

As everyone knows I speak very harshly because I speak absolute truths and not jingoism.

No, you're the person who accuses everyone of being a Pakistani or Congressi if they don't toe your ideas of things. You don't speak truth, rather you just delude yourself in thinking you even know the absolute truths lmao.

You're such a weirdo that first you accuse people of being Paki, then you calm down if they type PKMKB.

Say what you want, it's a free country but saying it's "absolute truth" is just arrogance, especially when it comes from the failed Paki detector lmao.

So, let me get this straight. An idea is immediately bad if the opposition supports it? So, if tomorrow China attacks and opposition supports defending, it's a bad idea? Keep in mind, opposition can only "support", not control. It's still in BJP's hands.

And what honestly are you expecting? Opposition will not support the military? It's going to a race to see who can support first, from BJP to Congress. (Except maybe CPIM)

We have opposition for a reason. If their attacks can make hriday samrat move himself from peacock feeding to Chini shooting, it's a welcome step.

 

[A chauhan]

As everyone knows I speak very harshly because I speak absolute truths and not jingoism.

The absolute truth is some Babus used Indian Army as a cash cow and did not let MIC develop in India.

Same Babus are now retired in UK and US with their children studying in Harvard and Oxford. Only ordinary citizens like us have to now pay the bill.

All the efforts over last 5 years in pure catchup to 30 years of inaction.

Their plan of purchasing Sukhois and upgrading it with superior non-Russian avionics has seriously failed. We have failed to develop indigenous systems for Sukhoi as well. So now our only option is to fill up squadron strength by purchasing additional Rafales and meanwhile develop our own AMCA, Tejas Mk 2 and TEDBF.

I have serious doubts on the combat effectiveness of the Su30s. I have read that its sensors doesn't talk to each other due to being of different origins resulting false alarms and friendly fire. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[fire starter]

 

[fire starter]

 

[fire starter]

 

[Knowitall]

Sirji if you have been following the news, all this has been done. In economic front China is hurting badly.

Problem is that we are in the middle of the biggest upgrade since the 1980s. Chinese have finished their homework and we are about to be done with it.

They took the initiative to escalate tensions. War was supposed to start in June, 2020. 16 Bihar bought India time.

Now it is up to us to equip ASAP and purge organisations like the OFB.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.econ...eliable-supplier/amp_articleshow/77687563.cms

Wrong on so many fronts.

First our economic actions seems to be having no effect overall in general.

The fact that there has been no change in the position of china with respect to India or the fact that they still haven't tried to broker any sort of deal or establish a mutual status quo speaks a lot. Their brands still have large footpronts in India.

Now if you are talking about their economy in general then even India in fact all the countries are currently facing an economic slowndown so nothing new there.

The second point I agree chinese have modernized quite a lot still that doesn't make them invincible far from it infact.

Them taking the initiative was part of their plan.

China wanted to know if India was going to back it's words with action. They could have done what they have been doing over the years try and encroach territory silently.

But they didn't.

They went out of their way attacked us provoked us they knew that our relationship could never be the same that their actions could have grave consequences yet they did it.

They wanted to call our bluff they wanted to gauge our response were we going to respond or were we going to do nothing and they seem to have got their answers that's why they are acting so bold now.

As for your upgrade thing it has already been discussed to death here that India enjoys superiority over china in the Tibet region the army has stated that they are ready to call their bluff.

It's only you here who keeps saying we are modernizing so wait.

Yes we are even china is even US does that mean they stop doing anything else?

We are sufficiently equipped to fight them if we were not as think then army wouldn't have been making such statements.

Modernization is a long drawn process a few years from now when you feel our modernization is done you might see chinese have developed something even better.

Then what will you once again let them do whatever they wish to and get back to modernization?

It doesn't work that way.

 

[Knowitall]

Now you know why he wasn't selected by bjp.

He doesn't mince words he is a fearless fellow who is advocating for hard action.

 

[cereal killer]

Now you know why he wasn't selected by bjp.

He doesn't mince words he is a fearless fellow who is advocating for hard action.

Yep he is extremely patriotic & respected man. He won't have listened to BJP's political antics & would go all out on Jihadis as well as Kashmiris without giving a sh** about bureaucracy.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

@Knowitall Exactly correct.

Actually what we are seeing now we were about to see this type of attitude from the Chinkis after 5 or maybe 10 years in the future. But the CCP virus just made them desperate to fast track their intentions.

CCP thought that if anyhow it can undermine Indian military then rest of the Asian countries will just fall in line.

I think too the Chinkis wanted to release the virus upon world just not today.