India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[Jaymax61]

Can anyone with a sound knowledge on diplomacy and negotiations(military or otherwise) tell me what is it that goes on during these talks, according to my naive understanding negotiations can only be done when there is give and take(just like any transaction for that matter) we have not taken any chinese patrolled territory so aren't negotiations heavily skewed towards the chinese side since they currently are standing in territory that we claim, wouldn't this whole stand off been resolved had we done a swift quid pro quo against the chinese and then called them up for negotiations where we agree to restore status quo ante and slowly all the newly inducted troops also could be taken care of and the stand off could have been ended then and there, instead what we have done is the opposite, we have gone in for talks without having anything to offer and with the chinese claiming the whole process of having been completed are forcing down upon us a fait accompli and as time passes doesn't it become harder to initiate a quid pro quo?

Chinese usually come in all smiles. They have a weird technique where they smile and act all amenable while refusing every point of importance.

Common tactics -
1. Discussing within their team in Mandarin while deliberately using body language to confuse the other side.
2. Throwing in random unrelated issues into the mix and insisting they are sensitive topics for "Beijing"
3. Making the other side invest hours on hours into getting into an agreement before shrugging and disowning everything

They do all this to tire the other side. Once they feel they have worn the other side out they come all friendly and "offer" a deal. The other side usually exhausted looks at the offer in good faith and agrees only for the Chinese to disregard it.

This goes on and on till the other sides in frustration gives them an opening to their true goal.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Mongolian nationalists in Nepal have burned Nepali flag India should come in open support of mongols they’re pro India people our gurkha regiment is also mongol

Video showing burning of Nepal flag uploaded on YouTube

KATHMANDU: A music video spreading anti-nationalistic sentiment and provoking violence and unrest in the society has gone viral in YouTube drawing the attention of the people and demanding the ban and action against the ‘artists’. The song entitled ‘Deshdrohi’ uploaded through ‘Mangol Hope...

english.khabarhub.com

You're massively mistaking the situation. I saw the video. They are burning the flag because it's a "Hindu" jhanda. These are Buddhist Nationalists/Buddhist supremacists.

They even had a BR Ambedkar poster because he renounced Hinduism to pursue Buddhism I guess.

 

[DownWithCCP]

Why did the army not go for a quid pro quo earlier when the transgressions by the chinese happened wouldn't it have brought more space for us to negotiate and also is quid pro quo possible right now without any massive escalation of sorts?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The US B-2 spirit stealth bomber’s snap arrival in the indian ocean: A hypothetical analyses on its implications in case of a india-china border war

(Near Parity Exists Between The Indian Land Forces And The PLA, When Operating in the Himalayas. Similarly, Indian Air Force Has An Edge Over The PLAAF When Operating in Tibet. In Addition, the PLAAN is...

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

The US B-2 spirit stealth bomber’s snap arrival in the indian ocean: A hypothetical analyses on its implications in case of a india-china border war

 

[nick_indian]

Yes Gurkhas are mongols KP Oli is a Bahun (Brahman)

Gurkhas are Mongols ? Never heard this before. Got any source ?

 

[HKedifier]

While we have been discussing the possible scenarios do we still have answers as to why China has decided to become aggressive along the LAC? What are the possible objectives what do they hope to achieve, what is it that they want so badly that they are willing to risk a potentially huge market.Have these objectives been met? Correct me if I am wrong, isn't this the longest and biggest stand off since 2000?

China is not aggressive , China do not have great internal pressure now , but it have big issue with USA, so China do not want conflict with India.

But India have great internal pressure , Covid-19 , jobless, Religious conflict ,

So India need to create conflicts with other countries to ease internal conflicts.
Pakistan is a good target,
Being provocative with China is like playing with fire. China is too powerful. If play too big, its easily lose control

 

[prasadr14]

China is not aggressive , China do not have great internal pressure now , but it have big issue with USA, so China do not want conflict with India.

But India have great internal pressure , Covid-19 , jobless, Religious conflict ,

So India need to create conflicts with other countries to ease internal conflicts.
Pakistan is a good target,
Being provocative with China is like playing with fire. China is too powerful. If play too big, its easily lose control

I disagree.
It's in our absolute best interest to do salami slicing China and occupy their lands. Let us force their reaction.

China is not too big or too powerful.
India should force China pull their military from East and place them at border near India.
Then the fun would start.

The reason is not because I think China is a wimp, it's not. It has powerful military, more so than India
But in a limited skirmish, we definitely have upper hand due to defensive posture as well as terrain & operational experience.

Force China to escalate, that's the only we can call their bluff.
Would China dare to relocate their military from East to Indian border?
Without that, there is little chance they can win any war even in defensive posture.

 

[HKedifier]

I disagree.
It's in our absolute best interest to do salami slicing China and occupy their lands. Let us force their reaction.

China is not too big or too powerful.
India should force China pull their military from East and place them at border near India.
Then the fun would start.

The reason is not because I think China is a wimp, it's not. It has powerful military, more so than India
But in a limited skirmish, we definitely have upper hand due to defensive posture as well as terrain & operational experience.

Force China to escalate, that's the only we can call their bluff.
Would China dare to relocate their military from East to Indian border?
Without that, there is little chance they can win any war even in defensive posture.

India want a war with China and want to win China, and capture the important Aksai Chin

China just want India do not start war , and keep the current situation.

China need time , and peace environment to develop itself.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Getting another 72 SU-30s is digging your already deep hole in which you are even deeper. The IAF wanted to stop the SU-30 numbers at the original 140 contract. And to get 126 Mirage 2000 as a single vendor MMRCA buy. But because that original Mirage 2000 deal never went anywhere the SU-30 line kept on rolling to supplement numbers. And so today the IAF has got 272 SU-30s with 1998 vintage radars, RWRs and missiles, engines that require to be overhauled every 500-1000 hours and an airframe life of 5000-6000 hours. Also, clearly the Russian AAMs are not up to spec otherwise they would not be replaced by the Astra and now by the Mica according to reports in the last few days. Upgrading this huge fleet with modern equipment is a headache because no western OEM wants their PGMs on a Russian platform and Indian PGM development is slow. Consider that though Israeli supplies ELTA radars to India, they continue to use the original Raytheon/Northrop Grumman radars on their F-16s, F-15s and F-35s.

Su are a beast no doubt abt that but IAF knew it's operational cost will rise with this jet and they were right but at the price we get them it's a good deal.

Better engine have been on offer and so does an upgrade.

Astra is getting integrated on Indian and russian platform as medium range BVR missile . It is an Indian missile and so obviously we will get it but that doesn't mean russian ones aren't good infact eventually Astra will be the standard missile of IAF along with Indorussian SFDR as tip of the spear.

And Mica integrated on Sukhoi is BS . Who said it to you ?

Israel gets American jets for free as annual aid through which it pays off. USA even asked them to shut down project Lavi their aircraft program which eventually was sold off to China and J-10 took birth.

Elta radar is pretty good that's why we chose it over European radars for Tejas.

 

[prasadr14]

India want a war with China and want to win China, and capture the important Aksai Chin

China just want India do not start war , and keep the current situation.

China need time , and peace environment to develop itself.

India's immediate objective is not to capture land back
BUT
to force China understand any change in status quo would have serious ramifications.

And the second objective to understand what China would do when they are forced to play on back foot.

 

[HKedifier]

India's immediate objective is not to capture land back
BUT
to force China understand any change in status quo would have serious ramifications.

And the second objective to understand what China would do when they are forced to play on back foot.

China Just want to keep the current situation . Few people in China care about conflict with India

According to your second point, India is provoking China ,right?

 

[prasadr14]

China Just want to keep the current situation . Few people in China care about conflict with India

According to your second point, India is provoking China ,right?

China has already changed Status quo, hence it's China that provoking India.

So, India has no reason to stick to any existing agreements with China,
What this means is India can open new fronts and do what China is doing to India by changing Status quo.

India does not need to fire bullets but just do what China is doing - go in China's lands, squat, build roads and structure and let the world know we are doing it.

 

[HKedifier]

China has already changed Status quo, hence it's China that provoking India.

So, India has no reason to stick to any existing agreements with China,
What this means is India can open new fronts and do what China is doing to India by changing Status quo.

India does not need to fire bullets but just do what China is doing - go in China's lands, squat, build roads and structure and let the world know we are doing it.

China go in India's land?

Have India army capture cars/machines/workers of China in India's land？

 

[prasadr14]

China go in India's land?

Have India army capture cars/machines/workers of China in India's land？

Not having this discussion since this has been done to death.

India's official position is for China to revert back to Status Ante. That should be sufficient to understand India's position and claim.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

You're massively mistaking the situation. I saw the video. They are burning the flag because it's a "Hindu" jhanda. These are Buddhist Nationalists/Buddhist supremacists.

They even had a BR Ambedkar poster because he renounced Hinduism to pursue Buddhism I guess.

Maybe I qouted the wrong video by mistake I will post the video again sorry

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Gurkhas are Mongols ? Never heard this before. Got any source ?

Gurkhas are mongol see their facial features

 

[HKedifier]

Not having this discussion since this has been done to death.

India's official position is for China to revert back to Status Ante. That should be sufficient to understand India's position and claim.

So if China invade India , India should have evidence that cars/machines/workers was captured by India, but nothing can show.

But India soldier dead in Chinese side, quite strange.

 

[Srinivas_K]

Being provocative with China is like playing with fire. China is too powerful. If play too big, its easily lose control

Exactly this is what is needed!

 

[prasadr14]

So if China invade India , India should have evidence that cars/machines/workers was captured by India, but nothing can show.

But India soldier dead in Chinese side, quite strange.

Thanks for providing us with a valid excuse when we do the same with China.

 

[DownWithCCP]

Thanks for providing us with a valid excuse when we do the same with China.

Ignore him, he is a chinky troll, was inactive for all these days probably daddy xi forgot to pay him
as he was busy paying his other bitch(you know who) you can't get him to agree on the fact that it is the PLA that is the aggressor he has been fed some propaganda from the government that he comes here and spits out like a moron.The strength of the indian army was seen in Galwan where we snapped your 4feet soldiers' necks and 40+ of them had to die a silent death, just like he said nobody talks about it because the media is state controlled lol.