India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

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ezsasa

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I think the issue is simple. Modi govt is following a bullet list of long impending decisions and reforms. 370, Ram Mandir etc are very good things that have been done, but the crucial bit is that they were long impending, which means no those were challenges of the past. Meanwhile, the security risks we are facing are challenges of the present.

The bullet list didn't account for present realities to this extent. Their playbook from UCC to Atmanirbharata has been policies and agendas set atleast 4 decades ago, and back then this present situation wasn't envisioned in their policies. So that's why national security gives the Modi govt such a headache.


Just so we're clear, the position of BJP wrt China set in past has been of cooperation and friendly relations to bring an Asian age. There's no policy set for seriious confrontation. That's why you see the policy paralysis of today.

With Pakistan, it includes claims and proclamations of PoK is ours, but not military action.

------


That is my reading of it.
How can what's happening now be called policy paralysis?

- Production linked incentives for electronics manufacturing
- Banning of apps
- Cancelling of tenders to chinese companies
- Going after chinese hawala network
- Continuing of the infra construction on LAC, inspite of military escalation by PLA because of the infra.
etc. etc.

This is opposite of policy paralysis, this is shifting gears in policy. Govt strategic policy should not be looked at only in military terms.
 

Waanar

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Emergency powers vested with the GoI is taken from the Third Reich, neither Germany nor Prussia nor the Wermacht. The Third Reich, Third f**kin' Reich!! Anybody recommended, called for or even considered fit for draft will have to attend military duty given he/she falls within the age gap as determined by GoI. Failure to do that and the person will be regarded a traitor and stripped of his Fundamental Rights. That means he better live in exile after that or risk losing his life and dignity. That's how stringent the GoI's emergency powers are.
Oh man I love that. Is it officially so or is it just coincidentally similar?
It's terrifying if it was a conscious decision to take inspiration from the Third Reich. Would LOVE to read more on that if true.
If the government takes it by the horns and uses it like no tomorrow, there are very few nations which will be able to survive that onslaught.

Heil Modi, Gentlemen.
 

Sanglamorre

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How can what's happening now be called policy paralysis?

- Production linked incentives for electronics manufacturing
- Banning of apps
- Cancelling of tenders to chinese companies
- Going after chinese hawala network
- Continuing of the infra construction on LAC, inspite of military escalation by PLA because of the infra.
etc. etc.

This is opposite of policy paralysis, this is shifting gears in policy. Govt strategic policy should not be looked at only in military terms.
That, to me seems like aatmnirbharata kick-started with the facade of measures against China. Sure, it can be termed as two birds with one stone, but it is at the end not a sufficient answer to hard military actions that China has taken.

I hold the opinion that nothing can substitute military options and any answer given to such acts by enemies which don't consist same is not enough.
 

BangaliBabu

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Oh man I love that. Is it officially so or is it just coincidentally similar?
It's terrifying if it was a conscious decision to take inspiration from the Third Reich. Would LOVE to read more on that if true.
If the government takes it by the horns and uses it like no tomorrow, there are very few nations which will be able to survive that onslaught.

Heil Modi, Gentlemen.
Read carefully. Don't jump the gun.....

IMG_20200813_012807.JPG


Weimer Constitution of Germany. The Nazis used the emergency provisions of this very Constitution fully to consolidate it's hold over Germany.

IMG_20200813_015805.JPG


Article 19 - Relating to Freedom of Speech and Expression.

Article 359 - Suspension of the entire gamut of Fundamental Rights (Part-3) enshrined in our Constitution.

Article 20 - Protection in respect of Conviction for Offences.

Article 21 - Protection of Life and Personal Liberty.

If Art. 359 gets enforced somehow, Art. 20 and Art. 21 gets suspended too. The entire national machinery and the Constitution of India acquires a unitary character then.
 
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Shashank Nayak

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Read carefully. Don't jump the gun.....

View attachment 56158

Weimer Constitution of Germany. The Nazis used the emergency provisions of this very Constitution fully to consolidate it's hold over Germany.

View attachment 56159

Article 19 - Relating to Freedom of Speech and Expression.

Article 359 - Suspension of the entire gamut of Fundamental Rights (Part-3) enshrined in our Constitution.

Article 20 - Protection in respect of Conviction for Offences.

Article 21 - Protection of Life and Personal Liberty.

If Art. 359 gets enforced somehow, Art. 20 and Art. 21 gets suspended too. The entire national machinery and the Constitution of India acquires a unitary character then.
Article 359 cant be used to suspend Art 20 and Art 21.. after an amendment to this effect
 

Shashank Nayak

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If there is an Indo China war..I fully expect a CCP pressure campaign.. urging Chinese men and women to divorce their Indian spouses.. Utter Cheapos..Then, they will make a progaganda video, where the Chinese man says... "I chopped off my di*k when I had a boner, as I was disgusted at the thought of having s*x with my Indian wife, while PLA comrades are being killed on the border..":hehe:
I thought the chinese play 9D chess.. But, they have disappointed me. They are using Indian origin wives of Chinese men, to blackmail someone who did not give a damn about his own wife.. Thats a losing hand against Modi..:facepalm:
 

nick_indian

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That, to me seems like aatmnirbharata kick-started with the facade of measures against China. Sure, it can be termed as two birds with one stone, but it is at the end not a sufficient answer to hard military actions that China has taken.

I hold the opinion that nothing can substitute military options and any answer given to such acts by enemies which don't consist same is not enough.
The current intrusions, in my opinion are not severe enough in nature to merit a military response against a bigger and stronger country. Modi is being pragmatic, just wish he told his public the complete truth instead of worrying about the elections.
 

Lancer

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From Vstol Jockey:

1597243476303.png


"Please look at the two maps attached. I have marked five different areas where we have substantial number of PLA presence.

The No-1 divides the two Mechnised Divisions with their associated support group and independent Brigades in two areas of responsibility. The lay of the ground is such that it lowers towards east and rises towards west which is India held Aksai Hind. The colour code shows it clearly.
Just west of Kongka La is Gogra and Hot springs area which is strongly held by India. That allows us to enter Aksai Hind plateau which is at a lower height compared to the hills we are occupying. To the east of it lies Lanak La which was an old trading post of India under the Dogra rule. If we have breakthru from Gogra area and take over Kongka La, we can split these two Mech Divs of PLA from mutual support role. We will need to use very heavy precision air/arty strikes to demolish the Brigade holding this area but if do it, it will allow us to side step to the north towards Galwan and Pangang tso which again are held by a brigade each. Our first initiative should be to go like a dagger from Kongka la to Lanak La and separate these two formations from mutually supporting eachother.

The second step should be to threaten the rear of Galwan Brigade of PLA. This will ease pressure on DBO as PLA will be forced to defend the area in strength and depth. Its nearly impossible for us to make a breakthru from Galwan river side. It will be suicidal for us.

Next look at No-3. We will need to hit Pangang tso from north to cut off the Brigade in Kongka la area from Pangong tso Brigade and from south to tie them down and create a killing ground and also create a divide between Pangang tso and spanggor tso.

Next look at No-4, this is needed to prevent reinforcements from Rutog to either spanggor tso or Pangang tso and cut off the southern supply route from Lhasa for Aksai Hind forces of PLA. The IA forces undertaking these offensive ops will have nearly unhindered air support as the main base for operations for Aksai Hind is going to be Hotan as is now apparant from the air elements that have been deployed there.

Next look at No-5, we will need to fight a holding battle till last ditch to hold on to the territory of depsang plains till we are able to breech the G219 from south and IAF destroys the major road bridges of G219 from North. Being an ex fighter pilot myself, I am sure IAF+IN will be able to do it in the opening hours of the battle. Even if it means flying the aircraft into the target. When we fly with "must do" brief, we do it. I dont mind a strong Brigade level airborne attack to the rear of this area to create panic and confusion in enemy ranks when they feel being encircled due to action at No-2 and this airborne assault. The taking over of Kangka La will allow us to do rapid supply and reinforcements and heliborne operations against PLA in Galwan area and also threaten it to the point of extinction.

The net result of success at No-1 will be that the PLA Div and its support elements deployed in South will have only two options, either die fighting or surrender and the PLA Div deployed in North will get encircled with no support, reinforcements, supplies and they will be at our mercy. Once we go thru No-1, we can freely move to hit the international boundary as claimed in our Maps within about ten days. There will be nearly nothing to very light resistance if at all any. Please have a look at the deployment of PLA. They have completely miscalculated. They probably thought that unlike Doklam where they got surprised by us and had to withdraw, this time they can pressurise us with their surprise. Surprise is a very important part of warfare but it makes a difference only in actual battle and not in holding battles which PLA thinks they have achieved by surprising us by occupation of F4 area in Pangang Tso. They have lost the initiative and it now lies with us provided we attack first. The map below is for better understanding of my battle plan. If I have to open up the attack, I will synchronise it with PGM attacks by IAF and IA Arty for max effect in the opening salvo with TOT of the target of PGMs of both to be same to have largest number of casualties within the enemy ranks. Later we can revert to typical arty role of supporting the Inf."


1597246099252.png
 

Sanglamorre

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I thought the chinese play 9D chess.. But, they have disappointed me. They are using Indian origin wives of Chinese men, to blackmail someone who did not give a damn about his own wife.. Thats a losing hand against Modi..:facepalm:
It's probably not for Modi. Chinese play this game of using family members in China as hostage to force overseas Chinese to do their dirty bidding.

Now they're trying to use the Indian relatives of Indians in China for the same.

I swear, Indians who married Chinese and stay in China are idiots of the first order.
 

Sanglamorre

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The current intrusions, in my opinion are not severe enough in nature to merit a military response against a bigger and stronger country. Modi is being pragmatic, just wish he told his public the complete truth instead of worrying about the elections.
Salami slicing in response to salami slicing isa valid option. Otherwise they'd keep doing this mini aggressions and we'll box ourselves in this trap whils the land they take keeps getting bigger.
 

prasadr14

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It's probably not for Modi. Chinese play this game of using family members in China as hostage to force overseas Chinese to do their dirty bidding.

Now they're trying to use the Indian relatives of Indians in China for the same.

I swear, Indians who married Chinese and stay in China are idiots of the first order.
I doubt we give a flyingF about these blackmails.
 

Knowitall

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The current intrusions, in my opinion are not severe enough in nature to merit a military response against a bigger and stronger country. Modi is being pragmatic, just wish he told his public the complete truth instead of worrying about the elections.
This is the question of the century what exactly is the red line for us what action of the Chinese warrants a military action from us?

Be it a grey zone or blue zone china continues to advance in our territory.

For a country like us which has lost quite a lot of territory over the years is it worth it to use terms like grey zones to create a false sense of peace.
 

Kumata

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My 2 cents -

In the current situation... we need money and material to kick chinese down and we don't have both. needs Preparation...On top, Chinese and porks can activate the internal .5 front at their will ...thats the sad reality...I see a conspiracy in what happened in b,lore... muzzies / abrahamics need to be cleansed like a disease.. untill the morons fear law ... nothing will happen...

Sigh... but i am sure on one thing.. modi will not let pooh too sleep peacefully.... he will make it costly affair for them...he need to arm the police with teeth to control this stupidity going on in third front...it needs to be crushed ruthlessly...
 

utubekhiladi

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China wants Nepal NGO to audit, asks 'Why are Gurkhas joining Indian Army?'

China seeks AUDIT from Nepal about Gurkhas in INDIAN ARMY.

China pulls down yet another dirty trick against India. According to Intelligence reports, the Chinese Embassy in Kathmandu has asked the China Study Centre NGO to find out why people of Nepal are joining the Indian Army. They also asked, what was the socio-economic impact on Nepal amidst India-China standoff.

 

Knowitall

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China wants Nepal NGO to audit, asks 'Why are Gurkhas joining Indian Army?'

China seeks AUDIT from Nepal about Gurkhas in INDIAN ARMY.

China pulls down yet another dirty trick against India. According to Intelligence reports, the Chinese Embassy in Kathmandu has asked the China Study Centre NGO to find out why people of Nepal are joining the Indian Army. They also asked, what was the socio-economic impact on Nepal amidst India-China standoff.

Unki marzi nobody is interested in joining their 4 foot ka Lilliput army.
 
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