India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[Hellfire]

• One, Jarnail Singh, former joint secretary in PMO has blamed R&AW for intelligence failure for the 1999 Kargil intrusions in his book ‘With Four Prime Ministers – My PMO Journey’. 21 years later we suffered similar intelligence failure with Chinese aggression in Eastern Ladakh, even though NTRO was raised after 1999. Mere intimation of PLA exercise in Aksai Chin, which is training area for PLA mechanised forces, was hardly enough. China had constructed a new road four kilometers short of Galwan which satellite imagery should have picked up. The NSA and the Joint Intelligence Committee failed to warn the Cabinet Committee on Security of the impending threat, as did the Director General, Defence Intelligence Agency to the Defence Minister.
  [*]Two, China has had 24x7 satellite cover astride the LAC but we have been focused on Pakistan and failed to do so against China despite missions to the Moon and Mars.
  [*]Three, China had reacted strongly to our map of Union Territory of Ladakh issued in October 2019 which included Aksai Chin. This was reason for us to be more vigilant. In fact, intelligence reports indicate that China was to intrude into Eastern Ladakh last year itself but the operation was delayed because of COVID-19.
  [*]Four, prior to Kargil Intrusions, Pakistan had observed that our reserve Division at Nimu in Ladakh had been moved to the Kashmir Valley to deal with the heightened insurgency. In the current context, India was busy battling COVID-19 and because of the lockdown the routine exercises were called off and mobilisation hampered because of limited rail movement. Did we anticipate that China will seize this opportunity? Our Army too must share the blame for not taking precautions knowing that PLA’s Western Theatre Command was exercising.
  [*]Five, a foreign scholar has written a detailed article on how PLA rehearsed the aggression on a full-scale model (satellite imagery provided) before advancing into Eastern Ladakh. Why did we miss out detecting this?
  [*]Six, we failed to read the enemy (China’s Communist Party) and President Xi Jinping despite the fact that every Chinese action since 1962 was anti-India and China never respected border protocols and agreements.

Blasphemy!!!

There was intelligence available to Mr Modi 24x7. The moment first Chinese PLA soldier occupied the finger 4 ridge, he came to know in 2 seconds. Sep Bhoop Singh rang him up from the rock below the ridge!!

• Seven, without a Strategic Defence Review and National Security Strategy, we went about the exercise to reduce the Army strength by 1,00,000 plus. In doing so we glossed over China’s illegal claims on Indian Territory. The Division looking after Eastern Ladakh has a frontage of about 800 km – does it have adequate manpower, surveillance means and reserves to deal with intrusions?

Era of fighting wars is over. Era of expansionism is over. Guess someone forgot to tag Chinese in it though.

• Eight, the ITBP deployed in Eastern Ladakh even in sensitive areas of Depsang and Chumar is not under command of the Army, as required by the Kargil Review Committee and follow up Group of Ministers headed by the then Deputy Prime Minister L.K. Advani. ITBP follows its own chain of command through their IG and DG to Ministry of Home Affairs. This creates avoidable operational problems militating against requirements of unity of command. In 2013 also China made a 19 km deep intrusion in Depsang.

How dare he attack Mr Shah obliquely! The gall! Who fought COVID 19 and fought on streets of Delhi to clear CAA protestors! Dr Harshvardhan should be asked about ITBP and why it failed.

• Nine, during the Kargil Conflict, then Army Chief General V.P. Malik was constrained to say, “We will fight with what we have.” In the current context, witness the mad rush to procure weaponry, ammunition, rifles, helmets, bullet proof jackets, unmanned aerial vehicles and the like. This has happened because of the political belief that there would be no war and as a result successive defence budget allocations that have been negative in actual terms - even adversely commented by former diplomats as lowest since 1962.

How dare he raise a finger at the leadership today? Congress is responsible!!

He should come to DFI. He will be set straight.


The General Knows nothing ..... DFI has people knowing better

 

[Bhadra]

Some introduction to Kinnaur

 

[ARVION]

Is ARVION a bot ... how the hell can he/she/it like every post?

No , I will say again I am an Next Generation Advance Biological Android as I stated earlier . I better then the HAL 9000 , HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA .

 

[SimplyIndian]

As horrible/de-legitimizing as a false flag attack could be, if that's what it takes, that's what it takes...

Maybe allow some terror plot to continue (after getting advance intelligence on it) - but make preparations to minimize damage. Then use the attack as an excuse to begin a "sustained period of anti-terror operations."

Sort of like how Israel takes over half of Lebanon every few years - except we'll never go back.

Hell, what if we used some of our leftover stocks of Chemical/Biological weapons - launched a fake attack on our own troops (with antidotes ready) - then used that as a solid basis to declare war?

In a post-Corona world, where many believe the virus is from the Wuhan Lab, and with that one random news story of China and Pakistan allegedly teaming up for a Chemical/Bioweapon lab on Pakistani soil (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ern-countries-report/articleshow/77139556.cms) - the official story writes itself.

Why actually do it? just say PAK did it .
No one is actually coming in person to check.

 

[fire starter]

 

[fire starter]

Indian air force doing PKMKB

 

[fire starter]

 

[Suryavanshi]

Gand fatt gayi

 

[Assassin 2.0]

 

[cereal killer]

Can this really happen

China May be Drawing Up Plan to Hit India Around Winters as Floods, Pandemic Make 'Situation Ideal' - News18

In a closed door international seminar in a foreign country eight years back, some speakers opined China could use tactical nukes to force India submit vital territory. In the current scenario, it could even be tactical bio-bomb.

www.news18.com

 

[tarunraju]

Late Shri Quad.

Even the Americans will fuck off as they get better "deals." So there' not going to be a "Seven Nation Army" fighting China. India's best bet is preparing for a war on its own, and winning it.

 

[Poseidon]

true..I too saw few of this guys tweets talking of these spy satellites... I was thinking that guy must be connected.. stupid me!!!!!!!!!!!

Wolfpacker is technically not wrong as all these satellites have small thrusters to adjust orbit (but it depends on the size of satellite that is the amount of fuel available for those thrusters) how many times one can carry out those adjustments. Going through that guys posts on emisat there clearly has been some orbital changes

 

[Poseidon]

Another thing I found on his timeline is this.

If this report is true (and not a photoshopped image by him ) then Pakis are vastly overestimating PL-15:

 

[cereal killer]

Late Shri Quad.

Even the Americans will fuck off as they get better "deals." So there' not going to be a "Seven Nation Army" fighting China. India's best bet is preparing for a war on its own, and winning it.

Australia was never gonna help anyways & what help they can provide us lol. Americans can provide us Excaliburs & hellfire & keep their carriers in SCS. We don't need any other help from anybody.

 

[Thundering13th]

What a bunch of f****s Itni kyu phat jaati hai in leaderon ki We should've openly humiliated PLA by releasing videos at least after soldier swap. Goddamn I am furious. Proud of the bravehearts. That was stuff of legends.

Humme maarne ki toh aukat hai par seh neki bilkul nahi. 20 fallen men ne humari tashreef suja ke rakhdi jang ki baat sochne se pehle sare factors gin lo

 

[Thundering13th]

Blasphemy!!!

There was intelligence available to Mr Modi 24x7. The moment first Chinese PLA soldier occupied the finger 4 ridge, he came to know in 2 seconds. Sep Bhoop Singh rang him up from the rock below the ridge!!

Era of fighting wars is over. Era of expansionism is over. Guess someone forgot to tag Chinese in it though.

How dare he attack Mr Shah obliquely! The gall! Who fought COVID 19 and fought on streets of Delhi to clear CAA protestors! Dr Harshvardhan should be asked about ITBP and why it failed.

How dare he raise a finger at the leadership today? Congress is responsible!!

He should come to DFI. He will be set straight.


The General Knows nothing ..... DFI has people knowing better

Boohp singh called ABV and MMS in 99 and after that china ne toh road bana li hai.aapke 8we ungli pe.

 

[Thundering13th]

Boohp singh called ABV and MMS in 99 and after that china ne toh road bana li hai.aapke 8we ungli pe.

Dint take it literally

 

[Jay99]

The Strategic Postures of China and India: A Visual Guide

https://www.belfercenter.org/sites/default/files/2020-03/india-china-postures/China%20India%20Postures%20-%20Tables.pdf

 

[garg_bharat]

Late Shri Quad.

Even the Americans will fuck off as they get better "deals." So there' not going to be a "Seven Nation Army" fighting China. India's best bet is preparing for a war on its own, and winning it.

Never count Australia. it is only for noise.
The situation in USA (internal) is grim. USA is seeing very highly charged political atmosphere along with rioting and disturbances in many cities. The presidential election is a major factor too.

I think it is better for India to avoid war for some more time. However it depends on Chinese too as to what they do.

Some people feel Biden will be soft on China. Maybe Chinese aggression is timed to Trump going out of White house. There is definitely large amount of uncertainty.

India will stay in tight spot with OFB productivity poor, no orders on private sector, only focus on imports. No idea how this situation can be sustained.

 

[LDev]

Yes.
In China this is order

CCP
PLA
MEA

It is actually the Central Military Commission which is the apex body with Xi Jinping as the Chairman. All of China's armed forces report to Chairman of the CMC. Even the Defense Minister is an errand boy whose primary job is to liaise with the militaries of other countries. He has no input on how and what the Chinese armed forces can or cannot do. Their MEA is a speck on the wall and if they do not want to be sent to re-education camps they do as they are told.

All of these talks with them are pointless because Xi Jinping has made up his mind and the rest of the military and diplomatic apparatus is only following his orders. The Chinese military commanders who show up at the negotiating table are nothing more than messenger boys and with the boss having already made up his mind, they cannot either offer or implement anything substantial to the Indian Army. That is why there has been no implementation of any substantial pull back.