India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[Synergy]

Since you are flame baiting and have had enough of bullshit from arm chair warriors who are not even in the system and presume to know more.



Please let me know your background.


Also, let me address it with:

If a minister in PRC repetitively says that Arunachal is part of China and moves troops towards Eastern Bhutan, will you take the threat as a possible threat or write it off as being a mere domestic posturing? Especially if the action is being taken against your 'ally/friend'?

Now extrapolate it to the action against Pakistan, PRC's interest in GB and Pakistan, actions on 05 Aug 2019 and statement of a man who is widely accepted as being able to articulate Government's view point.

Now genius, back at you, did the Chinese tell you it is not linked to their appreciation of a certain seriousness in India to do something about GB?

Or are you just plain stupid and expect those of us whose job it was to watch China and prepare militarily, to be equally stupid as you?

Next time, maintain decorum.

sorry to differ a bit.

It's India's official and stated stand that POK and Aksai Chin is a part of our country. so I wouldn't buy that Mr Shah's statement rattled China and that's why this stand-off. sorry...
I'm not aware of any statement like this before Doklam or 2013. so I think I'm not wrong in this regard.

(if I'm getting you properly)

 

[ARVION]

I said about it and got answered , we have enough , so I will keep my mouth shut . Could lead to off topic so shut .

Atleast on the topic of the Project 75 I class Submarine's , Yusuf sir is with me .




From our's Karta Dhara of the DFI's Yusuf Sir's Wise's Worde's .

 

[tarunraju]

Hey @garg_bharat Just let me know what is the NDA course entry of the present CO of 17 Squadron? Let me see you genius... since you seem to know more.

I assume he likes Rasgoola as his first course, before switching to other aperitifs and soups at the officer's mess. Gotta beat the hypoglycemia. Then it's onwards to the other 3 courses of the meal.

ISI told me.

Back to the topic please.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

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India has bought 36 Rafale jets from France in a deal estimated to be worth $9.4 billion. All are scheduled to be delivered by the end of 2021.French firm Dassault is in competition to sell more of the jets to India, which has said it will need more than 150 more combat aircraft for its navy and...

eurasiantimes.com

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[Hellfire]

I said about it and got answered , we have enough , so I will keep my mouth shut . Could lead to off topic so shut .

Anyone who thinks we have enough submarines, needs a serious look into their brains.

We have 03 tasks for the Navy. Will NOT elaborate specifically.

But we need to stitch up Sunda Straits, Malacca, East Timor Sea (potentially), monitor and prepare to interdict shipping off the coast of Pakistan, the harbours and PLAN base at Djibouti and provide screen to CBG as also the amphibious task force, when it shall need to be deployed. That shall need significant numbers.

We have the lift capacity of 02 brigades today to deploy immediately in an amphibious operation. (which can be expanded to more when the GoI decides to launch an amphibious operation by utilizing SCI ships to expand the troop carrying capacity once a beach head is secured, which itself will need at minimum a couple of submarines as escort in addition to robust ASW sweeps by frigates/destroyers)

And hey @garg_bharat I know of it because I was in that damn lift capacity when it was practiced, on board INS Jalashwa,. So yes, the effing Indian Navy and Indian Army told me.

 

[Hellfire]

I assume he likes Rasgoola as his first course, before switching to other aperitifs and soups at the officer's mess. Gotta beat the hypoglycemia. Then it's onwards to the other 3 courses of the meal.

ISI told me.

Back to the topic please.

God, I hate getting stuck on tactical viewpoints. came here hoping to set a narrative towards looking at the big picture and not being a street goon who gets happy that I punched once when he punched me once. But I guess, a hopeless cause.

 

[Hellfire]

Is this information true ?

View attachment 54706

Russians had nothing to say on this issue as far as I am aware.

But then, Russians and Chinese have not told me. So can not be sure.

 

[fire starter]

 

[ARVION]

Russians had nothing to say on this issue as far as I am aware.

But then, Russians and Chinese have not told me. So can not be sure.

I would say if this is even true , this is similar to the 1973 october war situatione's , isreali was feed wrong I I formation , egypt had a hands on it's .

 

[Hellfire]

@Hellfire sir your comments about Amit Shah pok, and akasi hind looks quite exaggerated to me. you seriously believe that our politicians had that much guts maybe in the Pakistan case but definitely not China. Chinese know very clearly that they face no threat from India. They are just savings there CPEC , and teaching India a lesson . Nothing more than that. Moreover Chinese motives are always about salami slicing but now it's also about saving there investment in Pakistan. They can always make More profit in doing business with Pakistan in the long run. They don't care if tarrif are placed on Chinese product. They still know as long as there products are cheap , Indians are going to buy it. They have analysed indian public , bureaucrats and politicians quite well.

Please understand what I said.

Is it so difficult?

A nation prepares its policy as per statements emanating from the enemy.

What do we do when Pakistan tries to be funny? We thrash the hell out of them. The only reason we have not wiped them off the face of the earth is because we care so damn much for world opinion of us as peace loving non expansionist and proclaim 'era of war is over' etc etc.

China considers, rightly so, India to be our Pakistan for them ....... an irritant that needs to be put in line. Why fight when they have, in one simple stroke, put the Govt of India on backfoot and created a leverage over GB by introducing in our calculus of war planning and war fighting?


Think beyond the small points yaar.

 

[Hellfire]

I would say if this is even true , this is similar to the 1973 october war situatione's , isreali was feed wrong I I formation , egypt had a hands on it's .

I have my doubts about such assurances. Mr Swamy has his own agenda at play against the PM right now.

 

[cereal killer]

@Hellfire sir your comments about Amit Shah pok, and akasi hind looks quite exaggerated to me. you seriously believe that our politicians had that much guts maybe in the Pakistan case but definitely not China. Chinese know very clearly that they face no threat from India. They are just savings there CPEC , and teaching India a lesson . Nothing more than that. Moreover Chinese motives are always about salami slicing but now it's also about saving there investment in Pakistan. They can always make Moore profit in doing business with Pakistan in the long run. They don't care if tarrif are placed on Chinese product. They still know as long as there products are cheap , Indians are going to but it. They have analysed indian public , bureaucrats and politicians quite well.

China doesn't give a sh** what Amit Shah said in parliament. The congi guy asked some other question & Amit said something else to silence him ( I loved that response though) . Furthermore we've passed resolution about J&K in 1994 so officially Aksai Chin was always claimed by us. So this was nothing new. Also after that statement there was silence about Aksai Chin. PoK remained hot topic. I've always felt Indian leadership is happy to maintain status quo & doesn't want a conflict over Aksai. However since China doesn't want to resolve the Border confusion we also have to claim Aksai Chin. Same way China keeps showing Arunachal in their maps & we show Aksai Chin in ours.
Main thing is this govt only tried to stabilize relationship with China which was the rational thing to do as well but it failed. Now we must exploit any sort of leverage we have.

 

[garg_bharat]

Since you are flame baiting and have had enough of bullshit from arm chair warriors who are not even in the system and presume to know more.



Please let me know your background.


Also, let me address it with:

If a minister in PRC repetitively says that Arunachal is part of China and moves troops towards Eastern Bhutan, will you take the threat as a possible threat or write it off as being a mere domestic posturing? Especially if the action is being taken against your 'ally/friend'?

Now extrapolate it to the action against Pakistan, PRC's interest in GB and Pakistan, actions on 05 Aug 2019 and statement of a man who is widely accepted as being able to articulate Government's view point.

Now genius, back at you, did the Chinese tell you it is not linked to their appreciation of a certain seriousness in India to do something about GB?

Or are you just plain stupid and expect those of us whose job it was to watch China and prepare militarily, to be equally stupid as you?

Next time, maintain decorum.

I suppose your job as a soldier is to badmouth home minister of India and that is acceptable.

If that is what you think then I have nothing to add. My background does not matter.

The delay in military response is primarily due to covid19 as everybody was fearful of huge casualties from this disease. If you chose to ignore this fact then fine.

The fact that intrusions took place at the time of great uncertainty due to covid19 does not even enter your arguments.

Amit Shah made the statement last year. If China was so riled, war would have occurred in 2019 already. But no war had to wait for covid 19.

 

[AmitG]

Ok,so the Rafales have come. So when are throwing the Chinese out now that we have 5 rafales?

All this hype for 5 planes? Every news and media channel has been hyping this and making it seem as if we are ready for a 2 front war now that 5 Rafales are here. . Politicians being politicians won’t miss the opportunity for their pound of flesh. Can we put things in perspective and stop acting like the Porkis and making ourselves a laughing stock

 

[ARVION]

I have my doubts about such assurances. Mr Swamy has his own agenda at play against the PM right now.

That also happened in 1973 , but in the end Sadat was able to remove any competition before the war and feed the wrong information that the Egyptiane's that we are not going to attack , due to still waiting for the major weapon's commitment from USSR's , through the trusted source's , which the isreali believed blindly without any doubt of rechecking and finally the Assad's got element of surprise in his brinkmanship diplomacy of a constant war gaming across the Suez's Canal's .

 

[Abhay Rajput 02]

Ok,so the Rafales have come. So when are throwing the Chinese out now that we have 5 rafales?

All this hype for 5 planes? Every news and media channel has been hyping this and making it seem as if we are ready for a 2 front war now that 5 Rafales are here. . Politicians being politicians won’t miss the opportunity for their pound of flesh. Can we put things in perspective and stop acting like the Porkis and making ourselves a laughing stock

5 Rafale does change something. Chinese would be fearful for any air raids/defensive cap. They know that if rafale is in that it's going to get tough for them It's mainly psychological pressure. Overall to the situation it would do little to change anything in air war. But I think we are good enough for defence. We should try to get mirage 2000 from France at least 50 and promise them additional Rafale deal for 36.

 

[Kumata]

Ok give examples. I am all ears.

You should focus only 2010 onwards as before that Pak was American buddy.
The fact is actually opposite - Americans are very very good as an ally.
But so many countries have take undue benefit from USA.

U sure.. there was a news few days back of uncle SAM refusing to share 5 critical tech related to F 35 Taiwan and korea..

 

[Bhadra]

Anyone who thinks we have enough submarines, needs a serious look into their brains.

We have 03 tasks for the Navy. Will NOT elaborate specifically.

But we need to stitch up Sunda Straits, Malacca, East Timor Sea (potentially), monitor and prepare to interdict shipping off the coast of Pakistan, the harbours and PLAN base at Djibouti and provide screen to CBG as also the amphibious task force, when it shall need to be deployed. That shall need significant numbers.

We have the lift capacity of 02 brigades today to deploy immediately in an amphibious operation. (which can be expanded to more when the GoI decides to launch an amphibious operation by utilizing SCI ships to expand the troop carrying capacity once a beach head is secured, which itself will need at minimum a couple of submarines as escort in addition to robust ASW sweeps by frigates/destroyers)

And hey @garg_bharat I know of it because I was in that damn lift capacity when it was practiced, on board INS Jalashwa,. So yes, the effing Indian Navy and Indian Army told me.

Have you ever sailed on Ghorpad and Magar which must be on the verge of retirement..

Those two used to carry two brigades of sheep as "Meat on Hoof". On Landing the sheep would just roll around with seasickness and instantly die..

Have you ever used BMP as fresh subji carriers as Mechanised Infantry troops refused to get inside the BMP... lest ten of them die together...

Allaha na are kabhi aisse najare dekhane Paren... pata chala light tank bhi sabji carrier ban gaya hai..

 

[Hellfire]

I suppose your job as a soldier is to badmouth home minister of India and that is acceptable.

Where the hell have I bad mouthed anyone? Read, understand and get back. Your comprehension issues are not my headache.

I am highlighting the possible calculus at play, that has resulted in PRC actions as unfolding right now.

If you can not look beyond 6 cms of your eyes, that is on you mate. Do not accuse other for your lack of appreciation of strategic posturing and thought process.

There is a reason why we undergo a plethora of courses in armed forces - why military theory is taught, strategic thought process is encouraged to be incorporated and stress is on military history. Only idiots ignore that load.

If that is what you think then I have nothing to add. My background does not matter.

Oh why? Clearly I am stupidity abound ... do educate o wise one. Since you are sitting here and pontifying, why am I not seeing you at Leh?

The delay in military response is primarily due to covid19 as everybody was fearful of huge casualties from this disease. If you chose to ignore this fact then fine.

Yeah? Really? Did COVID 19 tell this stupidity to you? Or did GoI tell you that?

The fact that intrusions took place at the time of great uncertainty due to covid19 does not even enter your arguments.

Did COVID 19 paralyze decision making chain in the GoI? Really genius? That is why 75% of top officials of MoD and other ministries like MEA were found sitting from 9 am to 5 pm everyday even during lockdown at their work place?

 

[tarunraju]

Ok,so the Rafales have come. So when are throwing the Chinese out now that we have 5 rafales?

Well, looking at the language of the PM and his Cabinet, I think very soon, and not through diplomacy.

Chicom superiority complex will get its rudest Dhalsim long kick in the face.