India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[LDev]

Do you know if they're integrated ?? or runs independently

This is partially conjecture on my part so that is my disclaimer but nevertheless:

1. The fact that India has integrated Astra with the SU-30 means that the Russians have parted with the Bars N011M codes with India.

2. IAF SU-30s use 2 different kinds of EW pods so unlike Spectra it is not a self contained EW suite.

3. They are the Russian SAP-18 and the Israeli ELTA EL-8222 pods.

4. The Russian pods are effective but wing tip mounted and heavy and they come at the cost of aerodynamic performance because of the heavy wing loading. The Russian pods are likely to be integrated with the Bars radar but as pointed out there is an aerodynamic penalty associated with using them.

5. I do not know if Elta has parted with the codes for the EL-8222 pods. However as you know HAL has chosen the Elta-2052 AESA radar for the Jaguar upgrade as well as for the LCA Mk1A. Since the Tejas will have the Astra integrated that means that Elta will/has parted with source codes for the 2052. Does that also now apply to the 8222 jamming pod as a negotiated package deal? No idea.

 

[Kumata]

yesterday I wrote a comment, it was something like this...

if we buy say 6 squads of F16/18 to up squad strength a bit, in next 25/30 years I'm not seeing any reason for it to bar us from using those against China. if they do, we will be fine without those F16/18s in offensive missions with SU, Raffy, mwf, tedbf/orca/amca etc. then also, defending with those ACs won't attract any restriction.

US bars any weapon mainly for offensive purpose. during Balakot, Paki F16s would defend their airspace and US didn't have any problem with that.

we will be fine without those against Pak.

Point is why get into one more bureaucratic hurdle when we have a option... there are lots of Ifs and buts.. if i am paying in top dollar.. i expect to use them my way..

 

[Bhadra]

I have no idea why countries have such unrealistic expectations? No country which has developed technologies such as the jet engine or AESA radars is going to do a "transfer of technology". Besides the issue of the billions of dollars/euros that have been spent in development, the bigger factor is that this is what gives them the strategic edge. In spite of several attempts, is anybody really going to part with their silver jewels e.g. with GTRE to develop a jet engine? Of course there will be talks and talks and talks for ever but no actual movement on the ground.

Aerospace technologies are considered "Fourth Wave" technologies which will be the main wealth generators for advanced West and USA. They will not though indulge in production.. Third-wave countries like China and India will make aluminum. tires. flooring, decoration, curtains and seats for aircraft.. also maybe some airframes be given to likes of TATA but avionics, engines, fly-by-wire technologies. codes. programs, integrating technologies etc can not be given to third wave technology countries like India..

Just keep away...

 

[garg_bharat]

It all depends on how favourable the govt of day is in US ... there is a risk involved...

We guess too much. Because we never invest in developing a relationship.
If we make the effort, we will overcome any difficulties.

 

[garg_bharat]

Aerospace technologies are considered "Fourth Wave" technologies which will be the main wealth generators for advanced West and USA. They will not though indulge in production.. Third-wave countries like China and India will make aluminum. tires. flooring, decoration, curtains and seats for aircraft.. also maybe some airframes be given to likes of TATA but avionics, engines, fly-by-wire technologies. codes. programs, integrating technologies etc can not be given to third wave technology countries like India..

Just keep away...

We will never catch up to either USA or China in the foreseeable future. This is 'kadwa such'.

Since China is our enemy (as doubly proven from recent events); the tech needed to keep China at bay cannot be developed internally. Period.

India has run out of options.

OK there is one option. Accept BRI, become a vassal state of China.

At least USA is not pushing a BRI on India.

 

[WARREN SS]

We will never catch up to either USA or China in the foreseeable future. This is 'kadwa such'.

Since China is our enemy (as doubly proven from recent events); the tech needed to keep China at bay cannot be developed internally. Period.

That is Pure BS The Availability of Total Free Market Technology Makes India Same Par With Many World Powers

We Are Due on Outpacing Russians by End Of this Decade

Indian Problem Is State Run System Which Will Replaced by Private Owned Entities Withing 2 Decades
Scope Of Growth is Highest For India Among Developing Economy

India’s expenditure in R&D is low compared to other competing economies. To increase India’s R&D expenditure to 2% of GDP by 2022...

We Rank 5 Globally

Global R&D investments unabated in spending growth - Research & Development World

With this report, R&D World magazine presents — for the 61st time — its annual global R&D funding forecast. This forecast presents unique data on the cumulative resources expected to be invested over the next twelve months by more than 115 countries, numerous industries, universities and...

www.rdworldonline.com

.

Budget 2020: Scientific Depts. Get 8% Hike, Much More for 'Disruptive' Tech

The two largest R&D projects in the new budget alone received Rs 5,900 crore more than the total hike for all scientific ministries and departments.

thewire.in

https://www.deccanherald.com/busine...s-to-up-support-to-incentivise-rd-799441.html

http://psa.gov.in/sites/default/files/pdf/RD-book-for-WEB.pdf

 

[Kumata]

We guess too much. Because we never invest in developing a relationship.
If we make the effort, we will overcome any difficulties.

It's not a guess mate. History tells us that uncle SAM cannot be trusted...with critical technologies.... U might say it but when ever we are against hard ball.. russians have helped us although they did extracted their pound of flesh but that's acceptable when u r doing business....Israeli's too on some what similar line.... Being a hindu, i relate a lot to israel and the way jews have been tormented over the years...

 

[Synergy]

I think we will face most trouble in the air. I would like to believe you but I am not so certain.
Our planning is falling short by a mile in the area of air force.

India should buy at least 100 used fighters from USA immediately. This is what I feel. Better number is 200 but at least 100 is MUST.

I've got another vote for my 180/216 secondhand F16/F18 (as MMRCA) till mwf, tedbf/orca take pace.

 

[garg_bharat]

It's not a guess mate. History tells us that uncle SAM cannot be trusted...with critical technologies.... U might say it but when ever we are against hard ball.. russians have helped us although they did extracted their pound of flesh but that's acceptable when u r doing business....Israeli's too on some what similar line.... Being a hindu, i relate a lot to israel and the way jews have been tormented over the years...

Ok give examples. I am all ears.

You should focus only 2010 onwards as before that Pak was American buddy.
The fact is actually opposite - Americans are very very good as an ally.
But so many countries have take undue benefit from USA.

 

[tsunami]

 

[Hellfire]

Pakistan is buying tanks from Serbia and elsewhere - whatever it can lay hands on.

This is also due to statement of Mr Shah.

China claiming SCS and America responding is also due to statement of Mr Shah.

Covid19 is also due to statement of Mr Shah.

I can go on but just hoping that there is a brake to stupidity.

Since you are flame baiting and have had enough of bullshit from arm chair warriors who are not even in the system and presume to know more.

Are you sure this situation is connected to the statement of Shah? Did Chinese tell you that?

Please let me know your background.


Also, let me address it with:

If a minister in PRC repetitively says that Arunachal is part of China and moves troops towards Eastern Bhutan, will you take the threat as a possible threat or write it off as being a mere domestic posturing? Especially if the action is being taken against your 'ally/friend'?

Now extrapolate it to the action against Pakistan, PRC's interest in GB and Pakistan, actions on 05 Aug 2019 and statement of a man who is widely accepted as being able to articulate Government's view point.

Now genius, back at you, did the Chinese tell you it is not linked to their appreciation of a certain seriousness in India to do something about GB?

Or are you just plain stupid and expect those of us whose job it was to watch China and prepare militarily, to be equally stupid as you?

Next time, maintain decorum.

 

[Hellfire]

The fact is actually opposite - Americans are very very good as an ally.
But so many countries have take undue benefit from USA.

Did Americans tell you that?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Navy keen on 3rd aircraft carrier to retain edge over China, even as 2nd delayed yet again

NEW DELHI: The commissioning of India’s second aircraft carrier has been delayed till September next year because of the Covid-19 pandemic. While reconciling to this setback, the Navy remains all the more keen to push its case for a third aircraft carrier as well as two new fighter squadrons to counter China’s expanding footprint in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR).

As the US recently displayed in the South China Sea, much to China’s discomfort, nothing projects raw combat power like an aircraft carrier strike group (CSG) capable of moving over 500 nautical miles (900 km) in a single day.

But India, which has currently deployed the bulk of its warships and submarines in the IOR to send a clear signal to Beijing, is in danger of losing its decisive edge over China in the CSG arena.

Indian Navy keen on 3rd aircraft carrier to retain edge over China, even as 2nd delayed yet again | India News - Times of India

India News: The commissioning of India’s second aircraft carrier has been delayed till Sept 2021 because of the Covid-19 pandemic. Nonetheless, the Navy remains k

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

@LETHALFORCE @tarunraju @ARVION
and yesterday, i thought INS will lose edge over porkistan since porkistan navy has ordered 26 news warships which will is expected to be delivered by 2023-25

We need to start producing more submarines along with this

 

[Hellfire]

We will never catch up to either USA or China in the foreseeable future. This is 'kadwa such'.

Did future tell you that?

Since China is our enemy (as doubly proven from recent events); the tech needed to keep China at bay cannot be developed internally. Period.

Did your technical and technological survey tell you? If so, what was the study design? The sample size? Can you give the details?

India has run out of options.

Did government tell you?

OK there is one option. Accept BRI, become a vassal state of China.

No wonder you were so wondering if Chinese told me, eh?

 

[ARVION]

We need to start producing more submarines along with this

I said about it and got answered , we have enough , so I will keep my mouth shut . Could lead to off topic so shut .

 

[Sehwag213]

Is this information true ?

View attachment 54706

@Hellfire
Any answers ?

 

[Hellfire]

Hey @garg_bharat Just let me know what is the NDA course entry of the present CO of 17 Squadron? Let me see you genius... since you seem to know more.

I can give more details than any idiot around here, including the date of the kid being born. But am not here to prove my credentials and neither am I interested in kicking every fanny around.

You have a viewpoint, I respect your right to express it. You do not agree, you simply state.

If you have better information, rebut me.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

China Using Pandemic Diplomacy to Expand Its Footprint in India’s Neighbourhood - News18

Unlike India, China sets its eyes on long-term strategic goals, and it is pursuing them vigorously in India’s neighbourhood through trade diplomacy. Its latest targets are Nepal and Bangladesh that have traditionally remained loyal to India.

www.news18.com

China Using Pandemic Diplomacy to Expand Its Footprint in India’s Neighbourhood

 

[Abhay Rajput 02]

@Hellfire sir your comments about Amit Shah pok, and akasi hind looks quite exaggerated to me. you seriously believe that our politicians had that much guts maybe in the Pakistan case but definitely not China. Chinese know very clearly that they face no threat from India. They are just savings there CPEC , and teaching India a lesson . Nothing more than that. Moreover Chinese motives are always about salami slicing but now it's also about saving there investment in Pakistan. They can always make More profit in doing business with Pakistan in the long run. They don't care if tarrif are placed on Chinese product. They still know as long as there products are cheap , Indians are going to buy it. They have analysed indian public , bureaucrats and politicians quite well.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Indian Army Has Option To Seize Critical Chinese Positions If India-China Border Talks Fail - Military Experts

After the violent clash between Indian and Chinese army soldiers the LAC in eastern Ladakh last month, constant efforts are being made by India and China to disengage at the border through military and diplomatic channels, unsuccessfully.

eurasiantimes.com

Indian Army Has Option To Seize Critical Chinese Positions If India-China Border Talks Fail – Military Experts