India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[ARVION]

Saar,

We have 2 AC groups... One for east side and one for west with one being planned as stand by ... If MIG29's cannot penetrate ADS of chinese than I wonder if we have been building wrong capabilities all along....

Fact is we need a long range bomber like B 52 or similar if we are to deliver via jets..... U can't put whole fleet on to a single bombing mission.. and if idea is to deliver nuclear war head... leverage Prithvi or similiar or Use Submarines .... thats far more efficient and effective...

Only I've had budget for the bomber's , till then have to utilize what you have . And I was clearly talking about non nuclear scenario's . MIG 29's mission are totally different from what you think , we would require our ACBG for another mission , and we are not putting the whole fleet for a single bombing mission. And only a 18 percent of the fleet's for the Multiple bombing missione's to destroy their entire Southern command after we destroy their entire Wester's command , if we fight the war alone that is my scenario .

 

[Kumata]

Military people are definitely required pension when retired between the age group of 34 - 40 and not provided alternative employment whereas all others are allowed to serve till 56 -60 years of age. It is a social and national responsibility.

Sir, no body forces military people to retire in age of 34-40 .. they can continue to work till retirement age like a normal joe.

Agree, it's a social and national responsibility and we are not only bearing that but ensuring that we fulfill that but how fair it is that a army man gets retired at 36 ... Get good pension his whole life or 15 years of service + post his death, his wife continues to get that pension and than gets a quota in govt opportunities and continue to earn a good salary from job as well till his retirement age and than earns a pension from this pvt sector job as well.

Not saying it is wrong but i do not get into a ethical dilemma about it...

 

[garg_bharat]

Saar,

We have 2 AC groups... One for east side and one for west with one being planned as stand by ... If MIG29's cannot penetrate ADS of chinese than I wonder if we have been building wrong capabilities all along....

Fact is we need a long range bomber like B 52 or similar if we are to deliver via jets..... U can't put whole fleet on to a single bombing mission.. and if idea is to deliver nuclear war head... leverage Prithvi or similiar or Use Submarines .... thats far more efficient and effective...

None of our aircraft can penetrate more than 500km in China proper.

Even long range bombers are not an option as bombers fly over sea and not designed to penetrate over land.

This makes China highly smug as China can attack India's cities in the north but India cannot attack China's cities.

This situation will not be rectified in the short run. Only option is to ally with USA and Japan who can actually attack Chinese cities.

 

[Kumata]

None of our aircraft can penetrate more than 500km in China proper.

Even long range bombers are not an option as bombers fly over sea and not designed to penetrate over land.

This makes China highly smug as China can attack India's cities in the north but India cannot attack China's cities.

This situation will not be rectified in the short run. Only option is to ally with USA and Japan who can actually attack Chinese cities.

Looking at map... only option we have is to attack them via SCS .. Navy and submarines ...to the rescue

 

[ARVION]

None of our aircraft can penetrate more than 500km in China proper.

Even long range bombers are not an option as bombers fly over sea and not designed to penetrate over land.

This makes China highly smug as China can attack India's cities in the north but India cannot attack China's cities.

This situation will not be rectified in the short run. Only option is to ally with USA and Japan who can actually attack Chinese cities.

That why I put my scenario , we have an equally fighting chance with the Chinese's . With the 18 percent of our's fighter capabilities We could delivery a Magnitudeal blow's to the Chinese's .

 

[Lancer]

He has a point mate anti incumbency is a thing.

Apples and Oranges. The anti-incumbency and general disgust/exasperation with Congress which propelled Modi to two historic mega mandates (and Congress to 2 historic lows) was the result of 60+ years of collective misrule, corruption and excess.

Think of Congress as Mughals and Rahul Gandhi as a comical hybrid of Muhammad Shah Rangila & Bahadur Shah Zaffar.

Will take several decades for people to get that fed up of BJP (though I find BJP to fundamentally still be much better than Congress, so the backlash/anti incumbency likely won't ever be as bad) - and it will take several decades for a final resolution to the question of what happens with Congress's dead remains/which new pan-India force will rise as a proper challenger/opposition to BJP (without alienating Hindus and Nationalists the way current Leftists do).

BJP has ridden to power on the wave of a historic Hindu revival after almost a thousand years. And the fact that they're based in ideology (incl. having ideological oversight from RSS/VHP etc), aren't loyal to a single family, and allow functionaries to rise through merit - means their trajectory will be starkly different from Congress, the two can't really be compared in any way.

 

[garg_bharat]

Sir, no body forces military people to retire in age of 34-40 .. they can continue to work till retirement age like a normal joe.

Agree, it's a social and national responsibility and we are not only bearing that but ensuring that we fulfill that but how fair it is that a army man gets retired at 36 ... Get good pension his whole life or 15 years of service + post his death, his wife continues to get that pension and than gets a quota in govt opportunities and continue to earn a good salary from job as well till his retirement age and than earns a pension from this pvt sector job as well.

Not saying it is wrong but i do not get into a ethical dilemma about it...

Bhai only option is draft. Draft comes with zero pension. And this solves manpower shortage at lower ranks, ranks who actually do the bulk of the fighting.

Lifelong pension is not right. Better option is to absorb soldiers into para-military or other industries like civilian industries. 35 is a young age and a soldier can easily learn new skills.

 

[DownWithCCP]

 

[Indrajit]

Nobody will suffer in this except for mango man... babus continue to enjoy their salaries / Pinsions .. Army will feed the common soldier via way of subsidies , good salaries .. and rightly so ... Politicians continue to plunder ... avergae Govt peon will continue to charge under the table 100 re for moving files ...Industrialist will cut salalry's of employee for pandemic and war......

and

Mango man who hold no power working in Pvt sector & making ends meet will continue to get milked from all holes...

If you want an out of box idea, the MoD should monetise many of the land holdings of the forces, especially in major Metros. The value of that segment of land could be enough for almost all the requirements of the armed forces for the next 2 decades.

Standard caveat: I say this with some amount of trepidation considering the inevitable conflicts of interest with politicians. However if anyone can do it, I believe Modi can. The argument of selling the family silver will be made but its pretty much the only realistic possibility of substantial sums being received.

 

[garg_bharat]

Both army and air force need their own design bureau. Let them design weapons and get these manufactured from civilian industries.

Let DRDO work on developing technologies rather than systems.

And disband PSU/OFB as ancient dinosaur who lost their relevance.

 

[Bhadra]

Here we have to stay revelant to damage an impact on the chinese so the need of such a complex mission , air warfare is not as simple as you think like the Childish's Scenario's of the @utubekhiladi , Air warfare is much more complex than you think, and requires an highly calibre and complex's manavuer's . The Paki's AAD's is a joke and nothing else, but the chini's is an another matter , dont take your enemy light as for the F 22 is concerned it will take off's from the various airbases in the region that's why the have that many airbase's . We don't have a full stealth aircraft is service's , so need for such an complex's missione's .

@cereal killer , @Bhadra ji , @Kumata ji . In my scenario , I talked about taking many target's at a one time , not a single target's , like the balakote's .

At this time I look at Rafael as addition into strategic nuclar capability till it goes to five squadron force when the will dominate the air space.. till it remain five aircraft you can mate Brahmos with it and be rest assured at least on Pakistani front or as a platform for counter force tactical nuclear delivery anywhere in Tibet..

 

[cereal killer]

To target an Chinese city located at a long distance in a non nuclear scenario's .

Out's jet's will flat from the airstatone's located anywhere at the bihar , up or bengal . The jets taken from Eastern command or ladakh will act to keep busy the chinese air asset's in the air's . Almost 5 to 6 squadrons will be required for diversion's , support or Air coverages .

The air tanker's would refuel our's jet's twice at the Burma china border and at the Laos china border . The Rafale's will fly low at the various india , Burma, Laos border's near the Chinese's border's . One reached near say the pearl delta citie's . With the Awac's near the border will help the rafale to reach inside the China and the Rafale's will launch a service's of the Stand off's missile's like bharmos around defending on the altitude . And will decimate the target's in the Peral Delta Citie's .

An complex mission of around 150 aircraft may required's for my non Nuclear stand off scenario's . Based on a histrogopical mission's .

@cereal killer , @Bhadra ji .

I'd like if we are able to bomb Chengdu in Sichuan & kunming in Yunan both are vital Chinese cities in Southern China. No need for Rafael here or we can use them as well if we are willing to destroy their assets in South western Tibet( first thing I guess we'll do) . Our Mirages & Mki's can do the job in a air raid. The mission is much likely to succeed & bust Chinese myth that we can't attack their Cities.

 

[ARVION]

I'd like if we are able to bomb Chengdu in Sichuan & kunming in Yunan both are vital Chinese cities in Southern China. No need for Rafael here or we can use them as well if we are willing to destroy their assets in South western Tibet( first thing I guess we'll do) . Our Mirages & Mki's can do the job in a air raid. The mission is much likely to succeed & bust Chinese myth that we can't attack their Cities.

Well , my this scenario is the follow of the scenario I talked about 25 day's ago , that your are referring now , I talked the same scenario with already .

 

[ARVION]

At this time I look at Rafael as addition into strategic nuclar capability till it goes to five squadron force when the will dominate the air space.. till it remain five aircraft you can mate Brahmos with it and be rest assured at least on Pakistani front or as a platform for counter force tactical nuclear delivery anywhere in Tibet..

@Bhadra ji that's why if we don't have atleast 24 Rafale's , now we have to use instead the MKI's in the scenario's .

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Is it true that Indian navy has blocked malacca strait

 

[utubekhiladi]

Well , my this scenario is the follow of the scenario I talked about 25 day's ago , that your are referring now , I talked the same scenario with already .

can u quote that scenario again?

 

[doreamon]

Is it true that Indian navy has blocked malacca strait

Where did u hear this ?

 

[Knowitall]

Is it true that Indian navy has blocked malacca strait

Navy steps up Indian Ocean operations, strategic Malacca strait under close watch

The navy has heightened presence along the strategic Malacca strait from where a bulk of Chinas energy supplies pass through, with sources saying warships as well as aircraft have been deployed. Sources said that while steps were taken to check on the PLA Navys intentions in the region after...

m.economictimes.com

No but we are ready to do it at a moment's notice all the govt needs to do is give the go sign.

 

[tarunraju]

"Happy Hunting, Over and Out": Rafale formation leader to CO of INS Kolkata deployed in the Arabian Sea, possibly due east of Oman.


"Happy Hunting" to me indicates that the Arabian Sea has a few PLAN subs, and IN is hunting them down.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Navy steps up Indian Ocean operations, strategic Malacca strait under close watch

The navy has heightened presence along the strategic Malacca strait from where a bulk of Chinas energy supplies pass through, with sources saying warships as well as aircraft have been deployed. Sources said that while steps were taken to check on the PLA Navys intentions in the region after...

m.economictimes.com

No but we are ready to do it at a moment's notice all the govt needs to do is give the go sign.

Another laddakh like situation