India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[Bhadra]

Sir, no body forces military people to retire in age of 34-40 .. they can continue to work till retirement age like a normal joe.

Agree, it's a social and national responsibility and we are not only bearing that but ensuring that we fulfill that but how fair it is that a army man gets retired at 36 ... Get good pension his whole life or 15 years of service + post his death, his wife continues to get that pension and than gets a quota in govt opportunities and continue to earn a good salary from job as well till his retirement age and than earns a pension from this pvt sector job as well.

Not saying it is wrong but i do not get into a ethical dilemma about it...

You would not have said so many things had you known that;

It would not be able to perform well in military service especially in fighting arms beyond 36.

On the death of a pensioner, his wife gets only 30% of the pension, barely sufficient to survive..

On retirement if any one gets a govt job his pay is fixed minus his pension. He can not draw full pension and full pay and gets only one DA.

There is hardly any reservations for ex-servicemen anywhere or half of Class A services and IAS / IPS would be short service commission officers..

 

[Knowitall]

Another laddakh like situation

Not exactly we can only do this after the situation in ladakh escalates not before.

 

[ARVION]

can u quote that scenario again?

India China LAC & International Border Discussions

I asked my sis then how to gain an upper hand in the Air Battle's, she said first strikes at their air assets she said they don't have that many air asset's at Tibet's or UAR's but most of them loacted at the Chongqing or siuchan our first priority will always been the air asset's bases located...

defenceforumindia.com

 

[utubekhiladi]

At this time I look at Rafael as addition into strategic nuclar capability till it goes to five squadron force when the will dominate the air space.. till it remain five aircraft you can mate Brahmos with it and be rest assured at least on Pakistani front or as a platform for counter force tactical nuclear delivery anywhere in Tibet..

if i may suggest, agni's are better options for silver bullets if it comes to that. let Rafael do what's its designed to do the best, - air dominance.

Agni 5 can reach the northernmost city of Harbin in just about 19 minutes. Harbin is the capital of Heilongjiang Province.

once agni is en-route, xi-Jinping and his chamchas won't even have time to exit the CCP building before the nuke explodes on their communist ass.

no fighters can match the power of agnis for silver bullets.

 

[cereal killer]

Apples and Oranges. The anti-incumbency and general disgust/exasperation with Congress which propelled Modi to two historic mega mandates (and Congress to 2 historic lows) was the result of 60+ years of collective misrule, corruption and excess.

Think of Congress as Mughals and Rahul Gandhi as a comical hybrid of Muhammad Shah Rangila & Bahadur Shah Zaffar.

Will take several decades for people to get that fed up of BJP (though I find BJP to fundamentally still be much better than Congress, so the backlash/anti incumbency likely won't ever be as bad) - and it will take several decades for a final resolution to the question of what happens with Congress's dead remains/which new pan-India force will rise as a proper challenger/opposition to BJP (without alienating Hindus and Nationalists the way current Leftists do).

BJP has ridden to power on the wave of a historic Hindu revival after almost a thousand years. And the fact that they're based in ideology (incl. having ideological oversight from RSS/VHP etc), aren't loyal to a single family, and allow functionaries to rise through merit - means their trajectory will be starkly different from Congress, the two can't really be compared in any way.

I think both Congi & BJP will vanish in near future. Congi will be the first of course. BJP will follow after some time. Indian politics is bound to change at some point. As it is different from the one in 50's & will change again in future. Some other kind of political system will emerge. People won't be easy to fool any more & more people will be educated. Hindu resurgence will continue but in some other form I guess. Rest assured things will be very different. I just hope we get a young Visionary leader as country will continue to jostle with decreasing resources & rising population.

 

[ARVION]

The scenario that I stated recently was carried out successfully by the IRIAF's in the Iran Iraq war's not one , not twice , but thrice and with a great success . The operation Kaman 99 , Operation Scorch Sworde's , The H-3 airstrike's .

 

[Kumata]

You would not have said so many things had you known that;

It would not be able to perform well in military service especially in fighting arms beyond 36.

On the death of a pensioner, his wife gets only 30% of the pension, barely sufficient to survive..

On retirement if any one gets a govt job his pay is fixed minus his pension. He can not draw full pension and full pay and gets only one DA.

There is hardly any reservations for ex-servicemen anywhere or half of Class A services and IAS / IPS would be short service commission officers..

Sir,

Provided a Man is fit enough, he can easily serve in active combat duty till mid 40's ( being Physically fit is expected out of a soldier anyways) . Physical fitness is key. Having said that, there are enough administrative / passive roles in army to keep u going till retirement age.

All the rules on re-employment are on paper and in rule book and any one hardly follows. In reality, there is no way for Army to know if one is employed with pvt sector which majority do post retirement...

There is a reservation for ex-serviceman in all jobs.. i know it b,cause my cousin got selected in a govt lecturer job on same quota,..their pay scales are far better...than a soldier and yes, he will get pension as well ... I am yet to see him complain that they cut his pension... Another cousin got retired from Navy at 38 ,, he is employed in Local army canteen unit .. getting full pension and salaries..

That's where i said.. it's a ethical dilemma....

 

[tarunraju]

The chat between the Rafale formation and INS Kolkata probably happened here:

And probably happened 90 mins ago, which means the planes are now probably near Gwalior.

 

[ARVION]

.

Here's the link to the The attack on the H 3 Airbases's . Not a single aircraft's was lost in this attack by the IRIAF's , but the IrAF's lost atleast 6o aircraft's on the ground's . We could carry out the similar attack's on the chini's with a eas and without any Air asset's Losses's .

 

[utubekhiladi]

whats the moniker for rafale and Tejas?

Su30mki = Mki's
Sepecat jaguar = Jags
MIG-29 = 29's
Mig-21 = 21's
Dassault MIrage-2000 = 2000's
Hal Tejas = ??
Dassault Rafale= ??

 

[Kumata]

.

Here's the link to the The attack on the H 3 Airbases's . Not a single aircraft's was lost in this attack by the IRIAF's , but the IrAF's lost atleast 6o aircraft's on the ground's . We could carry out the similar attack's on the chini's with a eas and without any Air asset's Losses's .

Any link to read the whole attack.. and when this happened ADS were not as robust as they are today...

 

[vayuu1]

Been saying this, for the umpteenth time it's hight time, (india,japan,sk,indonesia,taiwan,australia,vietnam and phillipines ) make a joint faction to take on China, irrespective of their relation or joining of any other group, joint ventures with these group especially in defence will come very handy, people are underestimating the potential of this group

 

[ARVION]

Any link to read the whole attack.. and when this happened ADS were not as robust as they are today...

Attack on H3

The attack on H3 was a surprise attack by Iran during the Iran-Iraq War in April 1981, against the Iraqi Air Force at H3 Airbase. In Saddam's attempts for a successful offensive against Iran on the northern front between 12 and 22 March 1981, Iraq fired two 9K52 Luna-M surface-to-surface Rockets...

military.wikia.org

H-3 airstrike - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even the jet's are more advance than before's .

 

[scatterStorm]

View attachment 54559

The problem is as soon as our jets start there raid, they are going to be picked up by PAF radars. PAF will share this info to PLAF. PAF and PLAF is a problem.

We require overwhelming power to control the airspace around green-zone and red-zone. We cannot push all our jets into this.

The options I can think of is using standoff weapons, like air-launched Brahmos and Scalp and sub-sonic land attack cruise missiles. A pre-emptive strike is advantageous. If we don't do that, than we cannot can pull the rats out of there holes.

1. PLAF and PAF would scramble all there fighters for imminent attack.
2. The windows we would have is 15min at max.
3. Placing two regiments of S400 at Jammu will give us some breathable air.
4. Use Rafael to scan the airspace, push the data to SU30 MKI
5. keep the strikes going in using IA.
6. Using Jamming pods (hopefully we would have software defined radio, because our comms have become a joke) to break multiple locks of JF17 and F16 and fire Astra to break there formations.
7. During this keeping jammer formations active and MKI and Mirage using there speed advantage, close the gap into WVR fight, than use the NEZ of Meteor or Derby-ER or RD77E (not sure) to clear there advances.

Jamming and closing the gap to force PLAF or PAF to a WVR fight is something they cannot win.

 

[Arbit]

whats the moniker for rafale and Tejas?

Su30mki = Mki's
Sepecat jaguar = Jags
MIG-29 = 29's
Mig-21 = 21's
Dassault MIrage-2000 = 2000's
Hal Tejas = Teja
Dassault Rafale= Raffy


Remember I said it first

 

[utubekhiladi]

The problem is as soon as our jets start there raid, they are going to be picked up by PAF radars. PAF will share this info to PLAF. PAF and PLAF is a problem.

We require overwhelming power to control the airspace around green-zone and red-zone. We cannot push all our jets into this.

The options I can think of is using standoff weapons, like air-launched Brahmos and Scalp and sub-sonic land attack cruise missiles. A pre-emptive strike is advantageous. If we don't do that, than we cannot pull the rats out of there holes.

1. PLAF and PAF would scramble all there fighters for imminent attack.
2. The windows we would have is 15min at max.
3. Placing two regiments of S400 at Jammu will give us some breathable air.
4. Use Rafael to scan the airspace, push the data to SU30 MKI
5. keep the strikes going in using IA.
6. Using Jamming pods (hopefully we would have software defined radio, because our comms have become a joke) to break multiple locks of JF17 and F16 and fire Astra to break there formations.
7. During this keeping jammer formations active and MKI and Mirage using there speed advantage, close the gap into WVR fight, than use the NEZ of Meteor or Derby-ER or RD77E (not sure) to clear there advances.

Jamming and closing the gap to force PLAF or PAF to a WVR fight is something they cannot win.

one small change in the plan.. i would use mkis to act as mini AWACS and scan the enemy airspace. because rangewise, mki have better radar compared to rafale.

 

[scatterStorm]

View attachment 54568

SAM or radar? I am assuming SAM

 

[Kumata]

The problem is as soon as our jets start there raid, they are going to be picked up by PAF radars. PAF will share this info to PLAF. PAF and PLAF is a problem.

6. Using Jamming pods (hopefully we would have software defined radio, because our comms have become a joke) to break multiple locks of JF17 and F16 and fire Astra to break there formations.

Hoping these are reliable and free from software bugs.. I work in virtualization domain and my experience with anything virtualized on network layer is pretty bad

 

[utubekhiladi]

Su30mki = Mki's
Sepecat jaguar = Jags
MIG-29 = 29's
Mig-21 = 21's
Dassault MIrage-2000 = 2000's
Hal Tejas = Teja
Dassault Rafale= Raffy


Remember I said it first

Su30mki = Mki's
Sepecat jaguar = Jags
MIG-29 = 29's
Mig-21 = 21's
Dassault MIrage-2000 = 2000's
Hal Tejas = Tej's
Dassault Rafale= Raffy Raf's

 

[tarunraju]

Now over Indian airspace with Su-30MKI escort.