India-China 2020 Border conflict

Cheran

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Also our troops still blocked at Y junctoin blocking access to other PPs

Chees admit to 5 including a battalion commander. Now some darbari handles are peddling this as though it is "some defeat to modi". These ppl. want India to receive a drubbing just so that they can blame modi to it.
 

Knowitall

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View attachment 60301

Also our troops still blocked at Y junctoin blocking access to other PPs

Chees admit to 5 including a battalion commander. Now some darbari handles are peddling this as though it is "some defeat to modi". These ppl. want India to receive a drubbing just so that they can blame modi to it.
Media needs to put pressure on the govt in a few week time it will indeed end in our defeat if GOI does nothing.

Ignore propaganda by known people.

Overall nothing wrong with the tweet you posted.
 

Cheran

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Media needs to put pressure on the govt in a few week time it will indeed end in our defeat if GOI does nothing.

Ignore propaganda by known people.

Overall nothing wrong with the tweet you posted.
Not about the tweet that i had posted but some other INC handles.
 

AZTEC

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India Seeks Naval Edge as China Penetrates Indian Ocean
New Delhi boosts cooperation with U.S. and others to check Beijing’s ambitions to become Asia’s dominant power

India operates one of the world’s largest navies.
PHOTO: FRANCIS MASCARENHAS/REUTERS

India’s border conflict with China is pushing New Delhi to look for an asymmetric response: flexing its naval might as it deepens cooperation with other democracies that seek to counter Beijing’s global ambitions.

India, which operates one of the world’s largest navies, sits astride shipping routes in the Indian Ocean that connect China to its main sources of oil and gas in the Middle East and to its key markets in Europe. Though growing fast, China’s navy still has only limited ability to operate in a region far from its home shores—and has to contend with the U.S. in its own backyard.

“On the northern border, the best we can hope for is to achieve a stalemate. But at sea, we have an advantage over the Chinese,” said retired Adm. Arun Prakash, a former head of the Indian navy. “A show of force at sea can send a message to China that you are vulnerable, that we can interfere with your shipping and with Chinese energy supplies. Their economy would be shaken up.”
1C05FA6B-DD8B-44E0-859C-5298BB6F1A30.jpeg

Note: Some markers indicate multiple bases in one area.
Source: Indian government (coastal radar stations)


India is intensifying joint naval maneuvers with the U.S. and its allies while building new ships and setting up a network of coastal surveillance outposts that would allow New Delhi to keep an eye on the Indian Ocean’s maritime traffic.

India’s military has historically focused on the lengthy land borders with fellow nuclear powers Pakistan and China. The country’s leaders began paying more attention to the Indian Ocean over the past decade as its foreign trade grew—and as China started making inroads in smaller South Asian nations that New Delhi used to consider within its sphere of influence.

“We are a large maritime country and we jut right into the center of the Indian Ocean,” India’s external-affairs minister, Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, said in an interview. “There has been a sense over a number of years that we haven’t paid enough attention to that. As we started trading more, as the economy started importing more, the relative importance of the sea has grown in Indian thinking—not just Indian security thinking, but overall Indian geopolitical thinking.”

The USS Nimitz, in background, held joint exercises with Indian warships in July near India’s Andaman and Nicobar islands.
PHOTO: SAMANTHA JETZER/U.S. NAVY/ASSOCIATED PRESS

The role of the Indian Ocean in the global economy is hard to overestimate: Three-quarters of the world-wide maritime trade and half of the world’s oil supplies pass through its waters. Chokepoints such as the Malacca Strait in the east and the Hormuz and the Bab el Mandeb straits in the west make much of that shipping exposed in case of military conflict.

As China has steadily penetrated the Indian Ocean, India has profoundly changed the way it views the U.S. and its allies in the region. A leading member of the Non-Aligned Movement during the Cold War, New Delhi used to call for all external powers to remove their military bases and presence from the area.

These days, New Delhi is comfortable with the U.S. maintaining its strategic base at Diego Garcia, a British territory island located about 1,100 miles southwest of the southern tip of India. It is steadily intensifying its military and diplomatic cooperation with the U.S., France, Australia and Japan—all nations that share New Delhi’s concerns about China’s attempts to establish itself as Asia’s dominant power.
ED3E7CA8-B565-4897-BCD5-ADBFA398C687.jpeg

DA2EB2AA-35C9-4701-8209-5D9173D0A1B1.jpeg

In July, the USS Nimitz aircraft carrier strike group, which was sailing to challenge China’s claims in the South China Sea, held joint exercises with Indian warships near India’s Andaman and Nicobar islands, which guard the access to the strait of Malacca, the latest in a series of such bilateral ventures.

“The world has changed. The U.S., very honestly, was very much a source of concern, even a threat. Today, the U.S. is seen much more as a partner,” Mr. Jaishankar said. “What we are seeing in the Indian Ocean is the coming together of converging interests of different players who are comfortable with each other politically, who have a shared concern for the global commons.”

While India and some of its partners insist that this cooperation isn’t specifically directed against China, Beijing’s increasingly nationalistic rhetoric and attempts to bully its neighbors have played a crucial role in pushing these nations closer together. Some 20 Indian soldiers and an unknown number of Chinese troops died in clashes in the mountainous Galwan Valley in June, one of several recent incidents where China pressed into what India considers its own sovereign territory. China’s claims along much of the border between the two Asian giants include an entire Indian state, Arunachal Pradesh.

Shelving its Non-Alignment-era qualms about cooperation with the U.S., India in 2016 signed a logistics agreement with Washington that made it easier for the two nations’ navies to visit each other’s port facilities and conduct joint exercises. Since then, New Delhi has followed suit with similar agreements with France, South Korea and Australia, and earlier this month sealed a deal with Japan.

“It’s not a question of pursuing a policy of containment of China,” said Alexander Downer, a former foreign minister of Australia who heads the International School for Government at King’s College London. “It’s just making it clear that, as a region, this isn’t a region that’s going to be subject to a Chinese Monroe doctrine.”

India’s navy operates an aircraft carrier and is building another, in addition to possessing nearly 30 other large surface warships and a fleet of strategic and tactical submarines. China’s navy, by contrast, possesses some 90 large surface warships, including two aircraft carriers, and it is building new—and more advanced—ships at a much faster rate. The disparity is likely to grow in coming years as China’s economy bounces back while India’s, battered by the coronavirus pandemic, shrinks.

Still, India’s ability to forge new partnerships with like-minded powers helps offset that imbalance. “India has a tactical weakness but a strategic advantage” vis-à-vis China, said Minxin Pei, a scholar at the Claremont McKenna College. “India has acted much more boldly than people had thought because the Indian government has the confidence that in the long run the situation with the balance of power is likely to shift in India’s favor.”

In March, India’s American-supplied Boeing P-8I reconnaissance and antisubmarine warfare aircraft flew sorties over the Indian Ocean from the French island of Reunion, the first such joint mission. As part of its effort to have a greater awareness of maritime traffic in the Indian Ocean, India’s navy is also setting up an “information fusion center” near New Delhi that is staffed by representatives of partner nations. The center receives feeds from coastal surveillance radar systems that India has established in recent years in the Maldives, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Bangladesh, Mauritius and the Seychelles.

India has expanded its military presence in the Ladakh region, where it is involved in a border dispute with China.
PHOTO: DANISH SIDDIQUI/REUTERS

“The Indians are trying to create facts on the ground in the Indian Ocean before the Chinese create facts on the ground,” said Hervé Lemahieu, director of the Asian power and diplomacy program at the Lowy Institute in Sydney.


India’s more ambitious efforts in the region haven’t always gone smoothly, however. In 2018, an announcement that India would lease part of Assumption Island in the Seychelles for a military facility sparked local protests. The Seychelles Parliament, controlled by opponents of the government, voted against the plan, effectively burying it. Even in India’s stalwart ally Mauritius, plans to set up another military facility on the Agalega islands have stalled amid local opposition. Other Indian Ocean nations, such as Sri Lanka, have increasingly cozied up to Beijing, a major source of investments that India is unable to match.

China’s major partner in the Indian Ocean region is Pakistan. China is investing in the development of the port of Gwadar in southwestern Pakistan, an effort that Indian and Western officials say could lead to the establishment of a Chinese naval and air base in the area. China already operates a major military base in Djibouti, its first such overseas facility. It has taken a 99-year lease of the Hambantota port in Sri Lanka and agreed to finance and build deep-water ports in Tanzania and Myanmar. Beijing insists that all these facilities in the so-called string of pearls around India are peaceful and don’t pose a threat to India.

With the exception of Gwadar, on the soil of nuclear-armed Pakistan, these installations would in fact turn into liabilities for China in case of an open conflict because Beijing won’t be able to protect them, said retired Vice Adm. Pradeep Chauhan, director-general of the National Maritime Foundation, India’s main naval think tank.

Yet, in an environment where conflicts are becoming increasingly hybrid and the line between war and peace more and more blurry, that presence is spooking New Delhi.

“It is not my contention that China is seeking to surround India. It is not seeking to surround India,” Adm. Chauhan said. “But India is getting surrounded anyway, and China is constricting India strategically. India will seek to ensure that it has strategic freedom and strategic space.”
 

Bhumihar

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India Seeks Naval Edge as China Penetrates Indian Ocean
New Delhi boosts cooperation with U.S. and others to check Beijing’s ambitions to become Asia’s dominant power

India operates one of the world’s largest navies.
PHOTO: FRANCIS MASCARENHAS/REUTERS

India’s border conflict with China is pushing New Delhi to look for an asymmetric response: flexing its naval might as it deepens cooperation with other democracies that seek to counter Beijing’s global ambitions.

India, which operates one of the world’s largest navies, sits astride shipping routes in the Indian Ocean that connect China to its main sources of oil and gas in the Middle East and to its key markets in Europe. Though growing fast, China’s navy still has only limited ability to operate in a region far from its home shores—and has to contend with the U.S. in its own backyard.

“On the northern border, the best we can hope for is to achieve a stalemate. But at sea, we have an advantage over the Chinese,” said retired Adm. Arun Prakash, a former head of the Indian navy. “A show of force at sea can send a message to China that you are vulnerable, that we can interfere with your shipping and with Chinese energy supplies. Their economy would be shaken up.”
View attachment 60302
Note: Some markers indicate multiple bases in one area.
Source: Indian government (coastal radar stations)


India is intensifying joint naval maneuvers with the U.S. and its allies while building new ships and setting up a network of coastal surveillance outposts that would allow New Delhi to keep an eye on the Indian Ocean’s maritime traffic.

India’s military has historically focused on the lengthy land borders with fellow nuclear powers Pakistan and China. The country’s leaders began paying more attention to the Indian Ocean over the past decade as its foreign trade grew—and as China started making inroads in smaller South Asian nations that New Delhi used to consider within its sphere of influence.

“We are a large maritime country and we jut right into the center of the Indian Ocean,” India’s external-affairs minister, Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, said in an interview. “There has been a sense over a number of years that we haven’t paid enough attention to that. As we started trading more, as the economy started importing more, the relative importance of the sea has grown in Indian thinking—not just Indian security thinking, but overall Indian geopolitical thinking.”

The USS Nimitz, in background, held joint exercises with Indian warships in July near India’s Andaman and Nicobar islands.
PHOTO: SAMANTHA JETZER/U.S. NAVY/ASSOCIATED PRESS

The role of the Indian Ocean in the global economy is hard to overestimate: Three-quarters of the world-wide maritime trade and half of the world’s oil supplies pass through its waters. Chokepoints such as the Malacca Strait in the east and the Hormuz and the Bab el Mandeb straits in the west make much of that shipping exposed in case of military conflict.

As China has steadily penetrated the Indian Ocean, India has profoundly changed the way it views the U.S. and its allies in the region. A leading member of the Non-Aligned Movement during the Cold War, New Delhi used to call for all external powers to remove their military bases and presence from the area.

These days, New Delhi is comfortable with the U.S. maintaining its strategic base at Diego Garcia, a British territory island located about 1,100 miles southwest of the southern tip of India. It is steadily intensifying its military and diplomatic cooperation with the U.S., France, Australia and Japan—all nations that share New Delhi’s concerns about China’s attempts to establish itself as Asia’s dominant power.
View attachment 60303
View attachment 60304
In July, the USS Nimitz aircraft carrier strike group, which was sailing to challenge China’s claims in the South China Sea, held joint exercises with Indian warships near India’s Andaman and Nicobar islands, which guard the access to the strait of Malacca, the latest in a series of such bilateral ventures.

“The world has changed. The U.S., very honestly, was very much a source of concern, even a threat. Today, the U.S. is seen much more as a partner,” Mr. Jaishankar said. “What we are seeing in the Indian Ocean is the coming together of converging interests of different players who are comfortable with each other politically, who have a shared concern for the global commons.”

While India and some of its partners insist that this cooperation isn’t specifically directed against China, Beijing’s increasingly nationalistic rhetoric and attempts to bully its neighbors have played a crucial role in pushing these nations closer together. Some 20 Indian soldiers and an unknown number of Chinese troops died in clashes in the mountainous Galwan Valley in June, one of several recent incidents where China pressed into what India considers its own sovereign territory. China’s claims along much of the border between the two Asian giants include an entire Indian state, Arunachal Pradesh.

Shelving its Non-Alignment-era qualms about cooperation with the U.S., India in 2016 signed a logistics agreement with Washington that made it easier for the two nations’ navies to visit each other’s port facilities and conduct joint exercises. Since then, New Delhi has followed suit with similar agreements with France, South Korea and Australia, and earlier this month sealed a deal with Japan.

“It’s not a question of pursuing a policy of containment of China,” said Alexander Downer, a former foreign minister of Australia who heads the International School for Government at King’s College London. “It’s just making it clear that, as a region, this isn’t a region that’s going to be subject to a Chinese Monroe doctrine.”

India’s navy operates an aircraft carrier and is building another, in addition to possessing nearly 30 other large surface warships and a fleet of strategic and tactical submarines. China’s navy, by contrast, possesses some 90 large surface warships, including two aircraft carriers, and it is building new—and more advanced—ships at a much faster rate. The disparity is likely to grow in coming years as China’s economy bounces back while India’s, battered by the coronavirus pandemic, shrinks.

Still, India’s ability to forge new partnerships with like-minded powers helps offset that imbalance. “India has a tactical weakness but a strategic advantage” vis-à-vis China, said Minxin Pei, a scholar at the Claremont McKenna College. “India has acted much more boldly than people had thought because the Indian government has the confidence that in the long run the situation with the balance of power is likely to shift in India’s favor.”

In March, India’s American-supplied Boeing P-8I reconnaissance and antisubmarine warfare aircraft flew sorties over the Indian Ocean from the French island of Reunion, the first such joint mission. As part of its effort to have a greater awareness of maritime traffic in the Indian Ocean, India’s navy is also setting up an “information fusion center” near New Delhi that is staffed by representatives of partner nations. The center receives feeds from coastal surveillance radar systems that India has established in recent years in the Maldives, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Bangladesh, Mauritius and the Seychelles.

India has expanded its military presence in the Ladakh region, where it is involved in a border dispute with China.
PHOTO: DANISH SIDDIQUI/REUTERS

“The Indians are trying to create facts on the ground in the Indian Ocean before the Chinese create facts on the ground,” said Hervé Lemahieu, director of the Asian power and diplomacy program at the Lowy Institute in Sydney.


India’s more ambitious efforts in the region haven’t always gone smoothly, however. In 2018, an announcement that India would lease part of Assumption Island in the Seychelles for a military facility sparked local protests. The Seychelles Parliament, controlled by opponents of the government, voted against the plan, effectively burying it. Even in India’s stalwart ally Mauritius, plans to set up another military facility on the Agalega islands have stalled amid local opposition. Other Indian Ocean nations, such as Sri Lanka, have increasingly cozied up to Beijing, a major source of investments that India is unable to match.

China’s major partner in the Indian Ocean region is Pakistan. China is investing in the development of the port of Gwadar in southwestern Pakistan, an effort that Indian and Western officials say could lead to the establishment of a Chinese naval and air base in the area. China already operates a major military base in Djibouti, its first such overseas facility. It has taken a 99-year lease of the Hambantota port in Sri Lanka and agreed to finance and build deep-water ports in Tanzania and Myanmar. Beijing insists that all these facilities in the so-called string of pearls around India are peaceful and don’t pose a threat to India.

With the exception of Gwadar, on the soil of nuclear-armed Pakistan, these installations would in fact turn into liabilities for China in case of an open conflict because Beijing won’t be able to protect them, said retired Vice Adm. Pradeep Chauhan, director-general of the National Maritime Foundation, India’s main naval think tank.

Yet, in an environment where conflicts are becoming increasingly hybrid and the line between war and peace more and more blurry, that presence is spooking New Delhi.

“It is not my contention that China is seeking to surround India. It is not seeking to surround India,” Adm. Chauhan said. “But India is getting surrounded anyway, and China is constricting India strategically. India will seek to ensure that it has strategic freedom and strategic space.”
The logistics and weapons are in our own hand we have no one else to blame for it.
 

Sehwag213

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View attachment 60301

Also our troops still blocked at Y junctoin blocking access to other PPs

Chees admit to 5 including a battalion commander. Now some darbari handles are peddling this as though it is "some defeat to modi". These ppl. want India to receive a drubbing just so that they can blame modi to it.
If this news is correct , then it means GOI doesn't expect a war ( provided news is correct )
How can situation be normal at Arunachal LAC if they are heated at Ladakh LAC ? Didn't PLA recently kidnap 5 civilians?
 

Cheran

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If this news is correct , then it means GOI doesn't expect a war ( provided news is correct )
How can situation be normal at Arunachal LAC if they are heated at Ladakh LAC ? Didn't PLA recently kidnap 5 civilians?
I believe normal should be read relatively to the "eyeball to eyeball" confrontation in Depsang,Galwan & Pangong etc.
 

mahesh

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we are not free because of them. we are free because of people like Netaji, INA, extremists, navy personnel (mutiny), army personnel (revolts) etc. please never forget the prisoners in Cellular jail.

and please read about the view of Mr Attlee. he pointed out it was due to Netaji, navy, army etc specifically. (in a conversation with Justice PB Chakraborty, then acting Gov of Bengal and CJ of Calcutta High Court in 1956)

also please read about "Bose, not Gandhi, ended British rule in India : BR Ambedkar" (in an interview to BBC in Feb 1955).


enough of this Gandhi-Nehru propaganda.
Come on, The current BJP position is not just because of Modiji. BJP built upon likes of Atal Ji and Lal krishna Advaniji,
It goes either way, Stick to the threat friends :p
 

Tshering22

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Soldiers who have been to Siachen will be very familiar with the terrain. I believe no soldier stay in Siachen for more than 3-4 years.
3-4 years!? At a stretch that is impossible no matter how good your equipment is or how well you have trained.

It is done on a 6-month rotation basis.

22,000 feet with that level of oxygen is fatal for the body, bhai sahab.

In fact, in my state the border along Gurudongmar Lake (between 15K-18K feet), soldiers don't spend more than 15 days at a stretch, on the forward base.
 

Bhumihar

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3-4 years!? At a stretch that is impossible no matter how good your equipment is or how well you have trained.

It is done on a 6-month rotation basis.

22,000 feet with that level of oxygen is fatal for the body, bhai sahab.

In fact, in my state the border along Gurudongmar Lake (between 15K-18K feet), soldiers don't spend more than 15 days at a stretch, on the forward base.
Do local have better time enduring those heights?
 

Tshering22

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:hmm: We should follow Chinese and replace windows with custom linux desktop .

There is already one in works called Bharat Operating System Solutions (BOSS),
There are already protests in a different state and central government offices against digitization & training; if the sarkaris can't work on Windows. Do you really think that they would be working on Linux with just alotted training?
 

Rassil Krishnan

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Talk that to a western here that Bose was the independence architect and they will laugh at you. I feel so proud when western people praise Bappu. He is the pride of Indians in the whole world. Bappu had the atmost integrity, he was a man of principle who always believed in the unity. So please STFU and come out of tiny warmhole brain.
monitor this guys posts and throw him out if he praises gandu again.first thing i notice and am suspicious of is the joining date.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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The more I think about it...the best time it is to go to war. The planets are aligned to finally get rid of our inefficient babus and tell them clearly their decisions are now going to be life and death - for their own families. Nothing like bringing death and destruction to someone’s personal doorstep to wake them up. A new India requires a sort of courage and execution speed that the current lot cannot supply. War is a good way to cleanse ourselves. We can take losses even in the millions due to our young population but can the PLA, with their ageing population and disastrous one child policy. Short of a nuclear war, a broader war along both Paki and Chinki borders have great prospects for our re-emergence as a powerful nation. We can test most of our technology and get real experience in building a powerful MIC. Losing a million people in our overpopulated nation is going to hardly set us back. And, we have strong allies. Push aggressively to rework borders in our favor. And clearly tell the enemy that we will fight to our deaths.
 

Tridev123

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View attachment 60301

Also our troops still blocked at Y junctoin blocking access to other PthPs

Chees admit to 5 including a battalion commander. Now some darbari handles are peddling this as though it is "some defeat to modi". These ppl. want India to receive a drubbing just so that they can blame modi to it.
Good to know that the troops facing the PLA are receiving Sig 716 7.62 * 51 assault rifle. We have 1,40,000 such rifles with probably some in the pipeline. Enough for the units stationed there.

Are the PLA troops wearing BPJ(bullet proof jackets) and if so at what level of protection. The 7.62 * 51 round has a better chance of penetrating the BPJ. I feel both the Sig 716 and the AK 47 rifles should be the weapons of choice against the PLA. The AK 47 provides an automatic fire capability with manageable recoil.

The new Negev 7.62 LMG also must be deployed, I guess. Maybe some small numbers of our OFB Belt fed 7.62 LMG can be stationed there for trials. Nothing like the battle field to test new weapons.

Our Swathi Battle Field Surveillance Radar will be useful in pinpointing locations of Chinese artillery and MBRL.
 

Kumata

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Well, one cannot be blamed completely for this phenomenon. People believe what they see. And what people of India see are bureaucratic statements filled with elvish grammar and meek words.

We do not recognize our capability because we never see/hear them. Before 2016, Surgical strike into Pakistan was something treated as a script out of a rejected Tollywood movie proposal.

Problem is, Indian military higher-ups & MOD babus lack iota of knowledge regarding information warfare. Hell, MOD thinks people still read newspapers in the morning and they roll out lame press statements to be digested only with Chai & Marie biscuits.

China & Pakistan both are generations ahead of us in this regard, and they periodically roll-out propaganda videos and songs. America, Western Europe, and the Russian military get specialized HD videos of analysis of their weapons and war directly assisted and funded from govt.
Few points-

A) Traditionally our posture was always defensive , always trying to save our backs against back stabbers. Moreover with the directions post independence of Stupidity like "NAM" , Panchsheel and what not whataboutery ensured that world always saw us a weak nation.

B) Our foreign policy for last 60-70 yrs was driven by certain stupid chachu whose only aim in life was present himself as world leader, In the process, he not only screwed our upcoming generations but existing one as well.

C) Since the primary reason for his promotion to be 1st PM was his moderate , english speaking face and thinking that he understand foreign relations better, MEA babus always got undue power in their hands ( V P menon's memoirs) this was the primary reason , Patel lost in the race of PM.

D) Since we were always seen as a snake charmers , vegetarian weak nation by west and meat eating abduls., we were always playing the secular catching up games. Naturally adbuls & chinkies aggressiveness is based on fact that we will take whatever the size of bamboo will be in our ass with a smiling face.

E) We never advertised our aggressive behaviour which means our capabilities are mostly hidden.

F) we killed 100 but said we killed only 10 . this helped the porkis and chinkies in hiding their faces and continue propaganda.

With Modi, all above is changing slowly. Moreover with the advent of internet , social media, people are asking questions but establishment have not aligned itself to the new internet connected world yet. They are still stuck in spiral binded files unfortunately. I am hoping we will see a rogue propaganda pogrom shortly on the lines of RAW / IB

Point is - we are no less than chinkies. Just that we have not advertised our capabilities like a true underdog. rest, you are more knowledgeable than me to understand what i am "Not Saying" .
 

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