India-China 2020 Border conflict

DownWithCCP

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They are going to come back(for an offensive of sorts) if not now, in a few years from now, with a larger and better force(their current estimated force levels are nowhere near what is required for an offensive is the opinion of experts and veterans) they are probably testing both along the SCS as well as Ladakh and when they do come we better be ready to crush the dragon and humiliate it.
 

Dessert Storm

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Boyz.. any update on plans of sending a 4th division in ladakh .. Is it cancelled ?. .or we station them in depth areas, just in case PLA bois get naughty..
This was broadly what it said:
They agreed to implement consensus reached by the leaders, strengthen communication on ground, avoid misunderstandings, stop sending more troops to frontline, refrain from unilaterally changing situation on ground & avoid any action that may complicate situation: Joint statement as per ANI.
1. Consensus reached between leaders.
Presumably PM and Chairman.
Things would not have come to this if there was consensus on exactly 'that consensus'.
2. Strengthen communication on ground.
Yep, they are laying the OFC n we're ordering n integrating SDRs.
3. Avoid misunderstandings.
You bet, we now see you for what you are.
4. Stop sending more troops to frontlines.
Whoever defined 'frontlines'.
5. Refrain from unilaterally changing situation on ground & avoid any action that may complicate situation.
Hold on..... it's you who alleged that India is talking to the Americans. Who'll call that unilateral.
* 🔍🔎No where does it say 'effective immediately'.
 

johnq

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china didn't do so much work since dhoklam for nothing. its clear that they have no intention to leave or stop salami slicing. :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: abh hone ko kon rokh sakta hai
This is why it was stupid for India to agree to stop adding more soldiers to the LAC. Meanwhile China started violating the agreement as soon as it was signed, reinforcing its positions with more soldiers and equipment. Some of these bureaucrats that keep making agreements with China seem to have been influenced by Chinese psy ops.
 

Sehwag213

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They are going to come back(for an offensive of sorts) if not now, in a few years from now, with a larger and better force(their current estimated force levels are nowhere near what is required for an offensive is the opinion of experts and veterans) they are probably testing both along the SCS as well as Ladakh and when they do come we better be ready to crush the dragon and humiliate it.
If we have to humiliate them, now is the best chance.

3 to 4 yrs from now when their frontline troops would have learnt mountain warfare it would be much difficult.
 

Prakshepak

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I saw an interview few months back in news when this crisis began, where person who appeared to be mid-level army officer was saying "We didn't expect that China will do something like this in middle of pandemic...". Man we seriously produce some naive gullible people... 1000 years of brutal occupation and our psyche has suffered generational Stockholm syndrome which refuses to go away...army officer was saying it, what did we even learn from kargil, doklam etc...? Nada.... Zilch... :frusty:

So it'snot just intelligence failure.. its our civilisational failure.... more to come for many generations..... ghumao charkhaa...
 

utubekhiladi

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भारत के खिलाफ चीन की बहुत ही गंभीर तैयारी, चीन ने दुनिया को दिखाया धक्का मार तकनीक ।

watch the video please :pound::pound::pound:

sudh hindi mein cheeni ki dhulai..
cheen ki seena ne bahubaali banne ka prayas kiya hai :pound:


 
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cannonfodder

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I saw an interview few months back in news when this crisis began, where person who appeared to be mid-level army officer was saying "We didn't expect that China will do something like this in middle of pandemic...". Man we seriously produce some naive gullible people... 1000 years of brutal occupation and our psyche has suffered generational Stockholm syndrome which refuses to go away...army officer was saying it, what did we even learn from kargil, doklam etc...? Nada.... Zilch... :frusty:
Koi gullible vagara nahi hai. Our politicos are trained to keep their boots on Indian public's neck only. Baki bahar valo ke samne dal nahi galti aur bas badi badi baate hoti hai- Satya..ahimsa vagare.

Although Modi is better than others and unpredictable w.r.t to using hard power.. but we better not get stuck with same mentality in future. I think if South block thinks it has better hand in situation it better play it rather than waiting to get trashed later.
 

Prakshepak

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Koi gullible vagara nahi hai. Our politicos are trained to keep their boots on Indian public's neck only. Baki bahar valo ke samne dal nahi galti aur bas badi badi baate hoti hai- Satya..ahimsa vagare.

Although Modi is better than others and unpredictable w.r.t to using hard power.. but we better not get stuck with same mentality in future. I think if South block thinks it has better hand in situation it better play it rather than waiting to get trashed later.
Can't blame only politicos for everything.. they come from the same population. The problem is in entire populace in general, otherwise why do you think IAF was seriously lacking in strength locally on 27th Feb? Couldn't they have predicated after Balakote the Pakis will try to do something stupid. Also, ROE on that day.. typical Gandhiwaad.. they should have opened up the ROE.. There were hardly any CAPs in that sector on Feb 27th.... even my 6 yo son if had fight with neighbor will be on watch out for retaliation the next day...

It was only tactical brilliance and bravery by pilots in cockpit that we were able to repulse them..
 

mahesh

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So an huge intel failure also.... :frown:.
There was some news and analysis about Chinese massive buildup in recent years but we would have thought it was a gap-filling after doklam incident and not an offensive buildup even though analysts were aware of it, would have thought there was enough time.
It was like this when India was fighting the Kargil War, china intruded many areas including Pangong Tso, so PLA wanted things reinforced before they go for War in other places with someone like Taiwan or in the south china sea, china timing it pretty well did they know about the pandemic or got lucky.

In that case, if Doklam didn't happen, PLA and Xi were in an ugly position, may be Xi would be resigning in few mouths from now.
 

mahesh

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lets take a break for a minute and remember the deadliest duo of our great nation. lets remember that this Jodi alone is solely responsible for all the problem that we are facing in INDIA today.

:dude:

View attachment 60194
come on you all, enough of blaming,.... given that day's situation and the paths chosen by the country, they did their best. . I'm telling this coz when the next generation grow up and have a talk about current crisis. They are going tell, Modi was so lame, when PLA intruded, he couldn't get back Akshay chin or Tibet when the opportunity was there, . he shouldn't have done demonitisation, GST stuffs.
 

nick_indian

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I saw an interview few months back in news when this crisis began, where person who appeared to be mid-level army officer was saying "We didn't expect that China will do something like this in middle of pandemic...". Man we seriously produce some naive gullible people... 1000 years of brutal occupation and our psyche has suffered generational Stockholm syndrome which refuses to go away...army officer was saying it, what did we even learn from kargil, doklam etc...? Nada.... Zilch... :frusty:

So it'snot just intelligence failure.. its our civilisational failure.... more to come for many generations..... ghumao charkhaa...
Make that 800 years please. Agree with the rest of your post. 1000 just sounds disheartening and isnt really true.
 

johnq

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India-China faceoff: Worst-case scenario becoming 'new normal' in eastern Ladakh?
Short of an India-China fighting war or another Galwan-type conflagration, a 'worst-case scenario' is taking steady root in eastern Ladakh.
Beyond just the winter that has arrived at the high-altitude standoff zones, there is a growing view, even within senior sections of the Indian Army, that the current situation is solidifying into a new normal. In other words, the wet cement of China's move to alter the status quo at the Line of Actual Control is setting into the concrete.
This was most manifest in the 13-hour talks held Monday between Indian and Chinese delegations in Chushul-Moldo. In a meeting that was literally a non-stop litany of divergences on specific demands from both sides, the two delegations emerged without any point of agreement except that they would meet again 'in the near future'. India Today TV learns this is unlikely to be before next week.
The divergences are plentiful. From preposterous Chinese requests for the Indian Army and ITBP to move its bases westward from Finger 4 at Pangong Tso to refusing to even discuss the Depsang standoff, to no acknowledgement of failure to adhere to promises made in earlier rounds of talks, the Chinese have all but made it clear that the five-point consensus arrived at by the two foreign ministers earlier this month meant little by way of forward movement on the ground.
On the Depsang issue, which China has simply refused to engage on, India Today TV recently reported on China's duplicitous mobilisation in this sector just weeks after the first-ever Major General-level talks were held between both sides in that sector.

While India hadn't pinned any hopes on a 'breakthrough' in the talks, there is little or no comfort in the oft-repeated belief that the very fact that talks are still happening is a good thing, and perhaps the only thing preventing the outbreak of a shooting war.
On the other hand, while prevention of conflict is no small feat, it is also plainly clear that the multiple rounds of talks have merely allowed Chinese positions to 'create facts on the ground'.
It's simple, really. The longer a position exists on the ground, the harder it becomes to dislodge or persuade to move.
China has also openly demonstrated it has no intention to move positions back in any substantial measure. It has instead used the time spent in talks to bolster logistics and infrastructure in aid of these positions, from road heads to supply lines to optic fibre cables.
As anyone in the military will tell you, there is nothing more permanent than an investment in infrastructure. If the worst-case endgame was a change in the status quo, then that is precisely what the Chinese are now attempting to utilise the meandering passage of time to achieve.
A growing view is that the rhythmic equilibrium of a 'tense calm' has merely favoured China in achieving its designs in creating more facts on the ground.

The dynamics of the standoff have undoubtedly changed since the Indian Army's actions starting August 29, though Monday's talks have provided no clear view that China is willing to engage in a 'quid pro quo' discussion that will send each side's troops back their peacetime barracks.
Instead, there is a perception that this is precisely what China had wanted all along in a time-tested strategy. To mount hostile actions, and then tie down the adversary with talks and the belief that military-to-military negotiations hold the key to a disengagement.
This may have been an early miscalculation by the Indian side and explains why the Indian Army finally took matters into its own hands only late in August and began preempting Chinese movements instead of merely reacting to them. China's open fury at the time confirms this, and India has taken close note.

It's also one of the reasons why the Indian Army expanded the campaign to access heights, codenamed Operation Snow Leopard, and impose reactions from the Chinese side. The multiple rounds of firing between August 29 and September 8 were a result of China's disbelief that the Indian military had left its historic defensive posture behind and adopted a far more aggressive bent. There is reason to believe that this preemptive posture will continue in scale and regularity going forward.
The sense that the situation is a pressure cooker that needs a release has also found mention in internal assessments of the situation.
With no breakthrough in talks, and none expected from the agree-upon future rounds next week, there remain three broad scenarios ahead: One, a meandering status quo that continues to harden with each passing day, with the permanence of the change in lines getting darker by the day until they pass into fact.
Two, a high-level intervention between Prime Minister Modi and President Xi Jinping, invoking whatever substance there was to their personal summits, to draw the two countries back from the disturbing equilibrium that has settled between two sides on the brink of war.
The final and third option needs no mention.
This is why India should not honor any agreements with China, including the last one which stops Indian military from adding more soldiers to the LAC. More soldiers are necessary to change facts on the ground.
 

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