India-China 2020 Border conflict

[N4tsula67]

 

[Blue Water Navy]

Kuch log na !!! mane keya bole !!! Kuch bhi !!!

 

[etantra]

This link was posted earlier and thanks for that

What an amazing video with details of road connectivity, pass details, past flash points. Puts all the moronic media to shame on how to explain the importance of the recent IA's moves.

The fingers ( F1-F8) are not the key.. Good to have and should push to F8..
The key is Spangur Tso lake & the entrance to Chusul..Losing the fingers can affect Chusul later but losing Spangur Tso will affect it now.

I have a Google Earth KML project of this whole area with all spots marked. If there is interest I will share the link, so you can zoom, tilt, pan and marvel at the challenge IA has taken on.

 

[ThE BrOkEn HeArT]

You mean taking over Coco islands to send a message followed by bombing the shit out of their infra projects in POK ?

Two front is not in favour of us. Take one by one.

 

[Dessert Storm]

We wont get F-35 as we have S-400 .. and the logic behind US denial of F-35 to Turkey .. that S-400 radar might record F-35 signatures and russian maintenance personnel might get the data still holds w.r.t India..
Since China will have hundreds of J-20s by the time we have AMCA taking its first flight... all we can have is SU-57 Raptorski.. to fill in the gap

Sir,
(1) What's not offered cannot be considered.
(2) USA has officially never said that they will even consider offering it, if India let's go of S400. There were only 'reports'.
(3) J20 with the design it has, can at best be 4.5 gen 'after' all the engine n censor thing is worked out by them.
(4) Agree on SU 57.
(5) We all know what we did to SU 30. With all the tech being readied for AM(edium)CA, I won't be surprised if we have a 'revelation' (after a limited buy) about what we intend to do to the heavy SU 57.
(6) If at all for some reason, F35s are offered to us, they would be F35B.

 

[shade]

And it might as well happen again.. I just hope it never does happen again..

Currently things are too hot for such an event to take place again, but in another 1-2 years it may happen.
Going to talks with Chinese without leverage is taken by them as submission and weakness.

We wont get F-35 as we have S-400 .. and the logic behind US denial of F-35 to Turkey .. that S-400 radar might record F-35 signatures and russian maintenance personnel might get the data still holds w.r.t India..
Since China will have hundreds of J-20s by the time we have AMCA taking its first flight... all we can have is SU-57 Raptorski.. to fill in the gap

S400 would come later.
The main issue is India wouldn't accept the "terms" that US would offer us the F-35 on.
The same issue concerning any US made offensive platform.

Btw AMCA will only remain on paper, or maybe a few prototypes, by that time Su-57 will be ready and mass produced, and that is what we will end up buying.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars There's Calm and the Highest Level Alert. PLA desperately needs a face-saving position post Galwan and 29/30th Aug readjustments. Though the exact date of next Corps Cdr level talks in Ladakh is awaited, i think PLA will do some misadventure for negotiation.

 

[prasadr14]

Ya'll Nibbiars There's Calm and the Highest Level Alert. PLA desperately needs a face-saving position post Galwan and 29/30th Aug readjustments. Though the exact date of next Corps Cdr level talks in Ladakh is awaited, i think PLA will do some misadventure for negotiation.

What makes you think we are not the ones on misadventure spree now a days?
the bat munching nibbas are being squeezed in the nuts..

 

[shade]

Ya'll Nibbiars There's Calm and the Highest Level Alert. PLA desperately needs a face-saving position post Galwan and 29/30th Aug readjustments. Though the exact date of next Corps Cdr level talks in Ladakh is awaited, i think PLA will do some misadventure for negotiation.

Nibber what misadventure.
No surprises now, IA is on alert everywhere, LAC, UK, HP, nepal border, Sikkim, AP.
All their plausible deniability tricks are all tried, killing our troops with spiked maces, saying they will disengage but not really, abducting civilians, what else do they have now apart from an actual war situation with small arms fire, artillery strikes, bombings etc?
They try something now it is an act of war.

 

[Haldilal]

What makes you think we are not the ones on misadventure spree now a days?
the bat munching nibbas are being squeezed in the nuts..

Ya'll Nibbiars We are that's why they are next to do some thing that will doom themselves. It will be their first test on the high altitude. And we are sure to test them to maximum extent.

 

[mokoman]

was looking at landviewer and found this.

zoomed in time lapse of red spot (from sept 2 - sept 11) which is down ridge from helmet top
red dots are chinese camp .

near blue dot , which is indian camp according to d-tris

its just very low res but looks like our camps are right on the lac and close/on helmet top

 

[utubekhiladi]

Deescalation Hogaya Kya

 

[sachincba]

Why dont USA just cut the crap and just offer F-35.
After all we are not pakistan and we will be paying for it, and USA keeps harping about how important india is for its indo pacific theater. Then how about back your words with action.

We can't afford it

 

[Hellfire]

To your 2nd point, in my opinion one of the main aim of IAF if it comes to it is to blunt the advantage of PLAAF over IAF in numbers,

How? A very theoretical and fantastical question, but let us entertain it. So, how?

do we have the capability to take out their airfields?

Yes. But do we need to expand the scope of air campaign to that much? Or can it be limited? That is where there 'calibration' comes into place.

Also operating from lower altitude, do IAF have more flex in strategy vs PLAAF? I would imagine AD to be a threat but a bit lower of a threat in scale due to terrain compared to fighting at sea level. Any insights?

This was a googly ... sorry, did not understand what was/were the question(s) aimed at? Talking in broad terms and with more of fantastical theory than realism is difficult to answer on ...

 

[shade]

We can't afford it

*We don't want the T&C it comes with.
Even Rafale was on the expensive side.
But Frenchies like Ruskis don't require us to agree to convoluted T&C about how to use materiel we have purchased from them.

 

[Cheran]

"Where I stand belongs to China" - Yep that summaries it.

 

[Hellfire]

IA is accountable to the Indian populace.

A very short answer: Nope, sorry. It is NOT.

It is answerable to the Council of Ministers headed by PM through President of India. Alone. No one else. Not even Parliament. Let me know when the Council of Ministers is directly reporting to Parliament.

So, go peddle your concepts to those who have no idea about the system.

It is the Indian populace that pays taxes that keeps the IA running.

Again - non-sense.

What is the percentage of Defence Allocation directly appropriated from the IT Returns of individual citizens? May I know? And in that case, one can argue, in Defence forces, everyone, without exception, pays IT - so, self financing as a warped logic can be pushed too.

Au contraire, armed forces get allocation from budgetary considerations of the GoI which is a sum total of taxes on goods, services, IT, exports. That is income of Govt. The Govt appropriates it, then allocates it to Defence Head from its overall estimates for expenditure.



Try again.

 

[Bhadra]

Written by Shyam Saran, thanks in advance.

View attachment 59157

The suspicion that our MEA has a lot of Pakistani and China wellwisher who can compromise even the national interest to be in their good books is not without bases especially when it comes to a man like Mr Shyam Saran - the architect of Siachin Surrender, These kinds of people remain in top echelons of National Security architecture speaks volumes about the political dispensation of the ruling party that allow such people to occupy or selectively appoint such people to the high position and cause irreparable damages to national security.

Mr Shyam Saran appears to belong to the school that tries to shift the blame of 1962 from JL Nehru and his coterie of politicians and bureaucrats to USA/ CIA and Tibet. Tibet had come under Chinese occupation in Oct 1950. It was good about 12 years later that they attacked India. For those 12 years Nehru , Menon, Desai and BN Malik were the only one dealing with friendly communist China in hush hush manner and in fact sold Tibet to China by recognizing their suzerainty over Tibet. Even than China brazenly attacked India.

China never valued Indian accommodation on Tibet and was solely responsible for the prolonged insurgency in North East India. China does not honour any India Tibet treaty, sutomary and traditional relations between Indai and China and here is one ex Foreign Secretary of Communist mould advising the country to cater for the requirements of Slavery of Tibet. That under no circumstances is in India's National interests.

China has not held back any full stops in harming India be in UNSC, nuclers issue, nuclearising Pakistan, arming and equipping a proxy rogue state or sided with anti-India terrorists. Since China cares two hoots about India's sensibilities, how is appropriate for the former chairman of Nation Security advisory board to threten India about Chinese sensibilities and core issues. Diplomacy is give and take and I wonder what a foreign Service Officer of Mr Shyam Shgaran generation have taken from china except for humiliation and maltreatment and constant harm to Indian national interests,

I think Mr Shyam Sharan belongs to that category of MEA Babus who wanted to govern a large chunk of India by generating fear of China - and they did it by governing NEFA for so many years - Is not one surprised - diplomates governing internal part of India in the name of China.

It can only happen in India... where people like him rule the roost. Now the things are slipping out of hands he is again trying to create a scare. An Indian diplomat supporting slavery of neighbouring Tibet under the despotic communist rule of China..

 

[Hellfire]

Sir,
(1) What's not offered cannot be considered.
(2) USA has officially never said that they will even consider offering it, if India let's go of S400. There were only 'reports'.
(3) J20 with the design it has, can at best be 4.5 gen 'after' all the engine n censor thing is worked out by them.
(4) Agree on SU 57.
(5) We all know what we did to SU 30. With all the tech being readied for AM(edium)CA, I won't be surprised if we have a 'revelation' (after a limited buy) about what we intend to do to the heavy SU 57.
(6) If at all for some reason, F35s are offered to us, they would be F35B.

Reply:

1. Offered. Once F-16s come in.
2. Publicly. Not "not officially".
3. For #6. Why F-35B? What advantage does that offer over F-35A? (Mind you, we have to have Aircraft Carriers proposed and underway, in our mind; Had an opportunity to get a proper, guided tour of a F-35A of RAF on my visit there in 2018, from an operational squadron with due 'cloaking' of tech)


The only reason we are not going for US equipment is the limitations in usage with respect to Pakistan which come into play. For China, there is no restriction by US on use of its equipment.

 

[Haldilal]

"Where I stand belongs to China" - Yep that summaries it.

Ya'll Nibbiars This looks easywalk compared to Siachen but still they fall over a dozen times.