India-China 2020 Border conflict

[Raaakisazih]

History will repeat itself.
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What is this

 

[fire starter]

What is this

Imperial Chinese flag bearing image of flying tiger/dragon named as Mantalai (Mansarovar)

 

[BlackViking]

Well the NE receives heavy rainfall and Pitch roads can't survive that for much time and most road get damaged due to landside.
There are natural, topographical reason as to why construction in NE is hard.

I know that but there were long stretches of road with no black road! You might have seen the video by AR CM Pema Khandu on his road trip to Vijaynagar in Arunachal. Such are the conditions now, imagine how it used to be 10-15 years earlier.

 

[ladder]

I know that but there were long stretches of road with no black road! You might have seen the video by AR CM Pema Khandu on his road trip to Vijaynagar in Arunachal. Such are the conditions now, imagine how it used to be 10-15 years earlier.

Road to Vijaynagar/ Vijoynagar is a special case. It highlights our idiocy of going about things.

1. As the poster mentioned about rain and erosion, the road to Vijaynagar is in the shadow region of mountain, so once it rains, it doesn't dry up and remains slushy.
2. Is there no means to tackle this? Yes technology is available. But use of such technology will breach the maximum ceiling of the per KM cost for PM gram sadak scheme, under which this road is included.
So, that technology cannot be used.
3. Even if you sort the above two, the portion of road which passes through Namdhapa tiger reserve cannot be black topped as the national park rule says so.

 

[HitmanBlood]

Inshallah we will soon hoist our flag in Lhasa.
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I dream of the day when home of supreme lord Shiva, Kailash mountain returns back to HinduSthan.

 

[Knowitall]

The fear on the chinki side is palpable when they have extended my comment on just the carriers to the entire PLA Navy is behind Indian Navy. I will take this as the truth as there is nothing like truth spilling out inadvertently. This goes to show that assets like two dozen P8I anti submarine planes, MH60Rs, Predator drones , A&N triservice Command right at the mouths of Malacca Straits, indigenous advanced carrier capabilities equipped with top of the line Indian/Russian/western armaments, indigenous SSBN capability with K4 deployment, the new 6 SSNs, the ultra modern destroyers of Kolkata class, the state-of-the art Indian Ocean surveillance setup at Gurgaon with liaison officers posted there from friendly countries, dedicated naval satellites etc - everything is giving the panda navy a nightmare as they know they are a decade or two behind what IN fields today.
The CCPs over the top propaganda that democracies are messy - they cannot deliver is also falling flat on their face, as people are learning that China’s tech advancements are mostly on paper for now and they are simply not able to match western tech yet and produce reliable products. Given that western tech is freely available to India (and these days with no strings attached when it comes to deployment against China) as a responsible democratic nation and a strong member of MTCR, which china is not and never will be, the slit-eyed CCP savages are feeling down just like how they felt when not a single nation paid attention to the 100 years of slavery theme by the CCP.
Good to know I am getting popular among the pangolin eaters. Thanks for your post.

Fear of what if I may ask?

Also could you explain how the entire PLAN is a decade behind IN.

 

[fire starter]

Brahma Speaks

We should let loose all the Tibetans against bat munchers they still have lot of anger left . Gand me petrol daal ke jalayege bc inki.

 

[Lost user]

Is war gonna happen

I will take sanyas if that happens.. forget that.. I will take Sanyas if India fires an artillery round at the Chinese..
It's all Jalwa.. Indian and Chinese tanks a hundred meters apart.. What's the f**king point in having tanks a few meters apart.. and Analysts go blah blah about how things were so close..

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Fear of what if I may ask?

Also could you explain how the entire PLAN is a decade behind IN.

Mostly because :

1. their platforms are based on 60s/70s tech. We started much later so our base designs are much more modern.
2. We have access to all sorts of advanced tech from the west and an aerospace industry that is actively part of the supply chain of western armaments makers. For example, chances are we may have access to EMALS technology much before PLAN.
3. Chinese have just caught up to the soviet tech in some areas. And as we know Soviet tech is inferior to the western tech in several areas - a major reason Soviet tech is cheaper. But we have already deployed advanced western tech like the P8i and that too in very good numbers. We are able to deploy GE engines in carriers, Tejas etc. Chinese engines are decades away from being able to produce GE quality engines.
4. Chinese have to do it all on their own with everything from their own budget, while doors are open for us in all countries in the west (except maybe Sweden because we gave Greta a hard time) and Israel. I strongly believe that only collaboration can deliver quality, innovative work in quick time.

Bottomline: we simply have access to more advanced technology than the Chinese as of today and potentially into the next decade. The west is not sitting quietly either - they are developing even more advanced technology like rail guns, energy weapons, ABMs etc and who knows they may include our private companies in their supply chains to keep costs low. And that again boosts our tech immensely. The biggest advantage we have is that our private companies are trusted partners of the west - a position Chinese companies will never have. And our private companies are world class. They have the ability to produce advanced quality products. I very strongly believe that our private sector will comprehensively beat the Chinese state companies in defense tech as they continue to get more and more into western supply chains.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

We should let loose all the Tibetans against bat munchers they still have lot of anger left . Gand me petrol daal ke jalayege bc inki.

Humari bhi embassy aur consulates hai bhai China mei. Unke baare mei bhi socho thoda, unke saath bhi aisa karenge voh

 

[fire starter]

Mostly because :

1. their platforms are based on 60s/70s tech. We started much later so our base designs are much more modern.
2. We have access to all sorts of advanced tech from the west and an aerospace industry that is actively part of the supply chain of western armaments makers. For example, chances are we may have access to EMALS technology much before PLAN.
3. Chinese have just caught up to the soviet tech in some areas. And as we know Soviet tech is inferior to the western tech in several areas - a major reason Soviet tech is cheaper. But we have already deployed advanced western tech like the P8i and that too in very good numbers. We are able to deploy GE engines in carriers, Tejas etc. Chinese engines are decades away from being able to produce GE quality engines.
4. Chinese have to do it all on their own with everything from their own budget, while doors are open for us in all countries in the west (except maybe Sweden because we gave Greta a hard time) and Israel. I strongly believe that only collaboration can deliver quality, innovative work in quick time.

Bottomline: we simply have access to more advanced technology than the Chinese as of today and potentially into the next decade. The west is not sitting quietly either - they are developing even more advanced technology like rail guns, energy weapons, ABMs etc and who knows they may include our private companies in their supply chains to keep costs low. And that again boosts our tech immensely. The biggest advantage we have is that our private companies are trusted partners of the west - a position Chinese companies will never have. And our private companies are world class. They have the ability to produce advanced quality products. I very strongly believe that our private sector will comprehensively beat the Chinese state companies in defense tech as they continue to get more and more into western supply chains.

They still bought su 35(which is itself behind western platforms) to reverse engineer it even though they have developed the so called 5th gen aircraft.

Tell me why would any country buy 4th gen platform to reverse engineer it when they have developed 5th gen one? It shows the level of trust Chinese have on their capabilities.

 

[JBH22]

They still bought su 35(which is itself behind western platforms) to reverse engineer it even though they have developed the so called 5th gen aircraft.

Tell me why would any country buy 4th gen platform to reverse engineer it when they have developed 5th gen one? It shows the level of trust Chinese have on their capabilities.

Su 35 in its present configuration can easily match the latest variants of F 15 or F 16. I highly doubt it is inferior, with adequate training these planes would be lethal for any adversary.

 

[fire starter]

Su 35 in its present configuration can easily match the latest variants of F 15 or F 16. I highly doubt it is inferior, with adequate training these planes would be lethal for any adversary.

You don't seems to under stand my question that why Chinese bought it after developing more advanced j20 nor they were facing any shortage at that time.

 

[JBH22]

You don't seems to under stand my question that why Chinese bought it after developing more advanced j20 nor they were facing any shortage at that time.

No I understood the question but I just highlighted the part of su 35 wrt western equivalent.
The production of 5th gen planes is work in progress, chinese still on the learning curve. They surely have picked something to mate on their flanker series J 11 or J 15.

 

[fire starter]

No I understood the question but I just highlighted the part of su 35 wrt western equivalent.
The production of 5th gen planes is work in progress, chinese still on the learning curve. They surely have picked something to mate on their flanker series J 11 or J 15.

Even after so much reverse engineering if they are still on learning curve then something is surely wrong with them. Look at us our tejas experience was enough to design and develop AMCA on our own with out stealing any IP.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Su 35 in its present configuration can easily match the latest variants of F 15 or F 16. I highly doubt it is inferior, with adequate training these planes would be lethal for any adversary.

Doubt it…frankly availability of Sukhoi planes has been much lower than the western planes. Sukhois, especially the engines require heavy maintenance and so higher downtime. Unless the Chinese have figured out a way to reduce maintenance and downtime, Sukhois would be inferior to western platforms. If Sukhois were as good as western platform, their price would be as high as western platforms as well. Russia needs money and they will charge as much as they can. The reason IAF salivates over Rafales despite their high price tag is because they know western platforms are superior. Countries with a lot of money always prefer western platforms. And that says a lot.
Hopefully, we can make Tejas as good as modern French platforms for a much less price, and look to capture some export markets where the US allows it. Let’s see.
Tejas has never crashed thanks to it’s GE404 and soon GE414 engines. We cannot say the same about Russian engines.

 

[Knowitall]

Mostly because :

1. their platforms are based on 60s/70s tech. We started much later so our base designs are much more modern.
2. We have access to all sorts of advanced tech from the west and an aerospace industry that is actively part of the supply chain of western armaments makers. For example, chances are we may have access to EMALS technology much before PLAN.
3. Chinese have just caught up to the soviet tech in some areas. And as we know Soviet tech is inferior to the western tech in several areas - a major reason Soviet tech is cheaper. But we have already deployed advanced western tech like the P8i and that too in very good numbers. We are able to deploy GE engines in carriers, Tejas etc. Chinese engines are decades away from being able to produce GE quality engines.
4. Chinese have to do it all on their own with everything from their own budget, while doors are open for us in all countries in the west (except maybe Sweden because we gave Greta a hard time) and Israel. I strongly believe that only collaboration can deliver quality, innovative work in quick time.

Bottomline: we simply have access to more advanced technology than the Chinese as of today and potentially into the next decade. The west is not sitting quietly either - they are developing even more advanced technology like rail guns, energy weapons, ABMs etc and who knows they may include our private companies in their supply chains to keep costs low. And that again boosts our tech immensely. The biggest advantage we have is that our private companies are trusted partners of the west - a position Chinese companies will never have. And our private companies are world class. They have the ability to produce advanced quality products. I very strongly believe that our private sector will comprehensively beat the Chinese state companies in defense tech as they continue to get more and more into western supply chains.

1) Which platforms are you talking about here?

2 No we don't have access to all sorts of advanced western tech at all. Barring a few exceptions all we ever get is old or normal equipment being phased out of service. Ex:- F-16, F-18.

3) On what basis are you comparing Chinese tech with the soviet's what is the equipment that you are talking about?

The chinese y-8q is comparable to p-8i in various aspects and is modern ASW platform overall.
Engine tech like GE while better comes with its own issues like strings and foreign influence. Tomorrow if US decided to defend the pakistanis we might find ourselves in a compromised position.

critical technology like this makes us dependent and denies us strategic autonomy.

4) Chinese regularly get tech from Israel europe and Russia most of these are under the table low optics deal like Lavi ec175 helicopter french and german turbines.

5) The west does not give us it's latest equipment barring a few exceptions. It also leads to a situation where we find ourselves running around for spares and ammunition during critical moments ex: balakot and galwan.

It also allows the west and russia to exert disproportional influence on us allowing them to broker peace negotiations and disengagements ex: balakot parliament attacks galwan.

While our private companies are good they are neither competitive enough nor have the global reach when compared to their chinese counterparts. This is one of the reasons why we stayed away from RCEP and take so much time to sign a FTA. Somewhere in the future yes but as of now no.

 

[Knowitall]

Even after so much reverse engineering if they are still on learning curve then something is surely wrong with them. Look at us our tejas experience was enough to design and develop AMCA on our own with out stealing any IP.

Every aerospace industry is in a constant learning curve. At no point can one reach the pinnacle of development their is always new tech and improvements to be made.

The reason they brought the su-35 to gain information on the 117S engine and experience with a super maneuverable thrust vectoring aircraft which they eventually wish to apply in j-16 and j-20.

You cannot compare tejas and AMCA to their chinese counterparts because both j-11 and j-20 are already inducted in good numbers with ongoing serial production while tejas in our case has only recently begun proper production.

 

[Knowitall]

Doubt it…frankly availability of Sukhoi planes has been much lower than the western planes. Sukhois, especially the engines require heavy maintenance and so higher downtime. Unless the Chinese have figured out a way to reduce maintenance and downtime, Sukhois would be inferior to western platforms. If Sukhois were as good as western platform, their price would be as high as western platforms as well. Russia needs money and they will charge as much as they can. The reason IAF salivates over Rafales despite their high price tag is because they know western platforms are superior. Countries with a lot of money always prefer western platforms. And that says a lot.
Hopefully, we can make Tejas as good as modern French platforms for a much less price, and look to capture some export markets where the US allows it. Let’s see.
Tejas has never crashed thanks to it’s GE404 and soon GE414 engines. We cannot say the same about Russian engines.

SU-35 outclasses f-16 in most parameters and is comparable to F-15.

 

[scatterStorm]

Wow! again my prediction/worst fear coming true

CPC funded western media now twisting the facts and setting up the narrative.

Now Ladakh is a Buddhist enclave outside India?

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India-China 2020 Border conflict

how deep penetration is of our intel agency in chyna or we are hoping to rely on penetration of us ?? Also, the meeting of Naga rebels with MSS in Chinese city, which came out some time ago.. I think Indian intelligence has sources...

defenceforumindia.com

This happens when you are a weak reactive force. When you are a bit offensive, global orders start taking shit for seriousness.