India-China 2020 Border conflict

[mokoman]

remember his tweets when all of this mess gets over.
Traitor h ye bc

From what i read on news , China already agreed to restore to May state , we want pre April status quo

If what he is saying is true , then recent Chinese provocations would not have happened.

landviewer sat images for depsang

left is last year sept , right is 2 days ago.

Hotan County, China Sep 22, 2019 on EOSDA LandViewer

Sentinel-2B satellite imagery. Natural Color(B04, B03, B02)

eos.com

location is right above the chinese base i think , they have expanded it significantly.

 

[etantra]

It's not that simple at all.

We are ready to return to the previous status quo too.

While we have occupied various heights you need to understand that china is in despang and gogra hot springs area too.

Also most of the heights we have taken are in our side of lac and inside our perception and previously not occupied as we did not want to look like aggressors.

We have no such compulsion now we can make camps once again after the status quo is achieved.

the post I replied to had Swamy stating that we have dropped April Status quo ante demand. If that is true, then my explanation holds for this area.

See the location on GMaps in 3D.. the incline above leads to Blacktop that is now in India's control
https://goo.gl/maps/KAMVzUvctPi2b6Q56

Is that within our side of LAC?

this video shows the levels PLA goes to make it easy for their soldiers
the PLA soldiers are gonna be stuffed if asked to fight

 

[DownWithCCP]

2 tactics... by occupying the key points, IA makes it costly for PLA to maintain forces in F4-F8.

PLA has to beef up numbers or pull back. If they beef up and things turn bad in SCS, then these forces become roadkill as comms & supply chains break down.

if they pull back, we occupy posts to F8 and push further if things heat up in SCS...

PLA's best move now is to make big concessions to IA and trust IA to keep its word, so it can focus in SCS.

SCS not going to happen anytime soon because of the kind of deployments by USA.

 

[Suhaldev]

Interesting appointment of Next chinese ambassdor to Pakistan

China's new man in Pakistan, tasked with steering CPEC: - Not a diplomat, unlike predecessors - Worked for Guangxi provincial govt all his life - Background in intl trade and religious/minority affairs - Degree in nuclear physics from Peking University

 

[etantra]

SCS not going to happen anytime soon because of the kind of deployments by USA.

India & China has to plan for SCS situation as if it would happen..

And US is not invading but basically bombing PLANavy & the new islands to bits and breaking down any taiwan invasion plans.

That would mean PLA has to prepare for being invaded, which means it needs soldiers at all possible positions.
see this

US intends to force China to 'fire first shot' over Taiwan - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

 

[ezsasa]

Let's be honest here everyone was braying for friendship with china the past few years.

The whole Wuhan spirit and xi visit to India along with the so called bonding.

Chinese investment in India heck there were some talks about a bullet train project from Kunming to kolkata.

I think at one point the GOI was under the certain belief that we could be friends with china.

Other way to look at it, is that current GoI was aware of the inevitable, so was buying time while doing preparations.

As we know in parallel tracks, so many other things were also happening:

-Loc & NE Infra
-Make in India
-Private industry in defence
-Defence procurement(foreign & domestic)
-Relationship with friendly countries. Ex: Quad

list goes on..

if people(Experts included) are not clever enough to pick up the hints, we are doomed.

Things can’t be viewed in isolation

 

[Synergy]

Which Report.. 1 billoon per month for 2 extra divisions is 16 lakh per soldier pwe month.. thats extravagant... and its not likely to be that costly..

though I'm not sure, but it seems extravagant.

cost of 2001-02 mobilization was $3B for 500k troops for 6 months.
so $1B for 30k soldiers for a month seems extravagant to me.

but if $1B then also it doesn't matter to us. negligible amount.

probably it's the cost of total mobilization around LAC and we don't know exactly how many troops.
nobody should reveal numbers like this at this point in time.

 

[Knowitall]

Other way to look at it, is that current GoI was aware of the inevitable, so was buying time while doing preparations.

As we know in parallel tracks, so many other things were also happening:

-Loc & NE Infra
-Make in India
-Private industry in defence
-Defence procurement(foreign & domestic)
-Relationship with friendly countries. Ex: Quad

list goes on..

if people(Experts included) are not clever enough to pick up the hints, we are doomed.

Things can’t be viewed in isolation

But sirji if GOI was this aware why did they allow such huge chinese investments in various sectors and our lackluster recon capabilities at the border.

The Chinese had over time made deep inroads in India and indian companies.

I feel that we were not buying time rather we were preparing for both outcomes.

If the Chinese turned out to be good and willing to move forward with India great we will continue to deepen ties.

If the Chinese were not willing we were preparing for that too (the points you mentioned above).

 

[etantra]

Other way to look at it, is that current GoI was aware of the inevitable, so was buying time while doing preparations.

As we know in parallel tracks, so many other things were also happening:

-Loc & NE Infra
-Make in India
-Private industry in defence
-Defence procurement(foreign & domestic)
-Relationship with friendly countries. Ex: Quad

list goes on..

if people(Experts included) are not clever enough to pick up the hints, we are doomed.

Things can’t be viewed in isolation

I would concur.. all these economic hits on China requires public buy in. India always knew the day will come and I think the govt had rough plans in mind..

they grabbed the chance PLA giften with their Galwan fiasco. IMO the PLA's moves over August was to threaten war on India as cost for economic hits, they just didn't plan for reversal.

this is a result of PLA being stuck in echo chambers( and bad advisors in Pak) and believing their own propaganda.

 

[etantra]

But sirji if GOI was this aware why did they allow such huge chinese investments in various sectors and our lackluster recon capabilities at the border.

The Chinese had over time made deep inroads in India and indian companies.

I feel that we were not buying time rather we were preparing for both outcomes.

If the Chinese turned out to be good and willing to move forward with India great we will continue to deepen ties.

If the Chinese were not willing we were preparing for that too (the points you mentioned above).

cause they had no reason to block any of it and have India public accept it. Not to mention WTO rules and wider economic confidence issues. See my previous reply too

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Daily cost of maintaing a bridage in Siachen is 5cr, Eastern ladhak should be less, isn't?

Siachen: All you should know about the world’s costliest battlefield | Siachen Battlefield India, China & Pakistan

Life is tough at the Siachen glacier, spread over a 76 km area, due to sub-zero temperatures that dip below -60 degrees, constant threat of avalanches, crevasses on the glacier, high-speed winds and a range of potentially fatal altitude-related ailments.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

5 cr for a brigade per day in siachen comes upto around 5 lakh per month per soldier. In ladakh only a few thousand of the soldiers will be deployed in siachen like heights. Most soldiers will be deployed in depth areas with elevation around 4000 meters and better connectivity..

 

[Mikel]

Images allegedly taken by #China's Gaofen-2 satellite begin circulating chinese social media, showing #India's new camps sitting above the #SpanggurGap & #China's camps below it the image reaffirms action by the #IndianArmy Image two shows the line of sight India enjoys

 

[tarunraju]

remember his tweets when all of this mess gets over.
Traitor h ye bc

August 29 was Modi preempting the Indian deep-state, not PLA. Now he's put himself in a position where neither side can walk away accepting any ground-situation as status quo. He's put the PLA in a position where turning back without a fight (to establish ground-sit as status quo) will be perceived as a PLA defeat; likewise, Modi and BJP are politically finished if they accept ground-sit (so Indian deep state can no longer officially present that option to the Indian state). So the August 29 move is designed to ensure India has at least a 50-50 chance at restoring 01/01/2020 status quo through warfare, because there is exactly 0% chance of restoring the 01/01/2020 status quo through any non-violent means.

 

[ezsasa]

But sirji if GOI was this aware why did they allow such huge chinese investments in various sectors and our lackluster recon capabilities at the border.

The Chinese had over time made deep inroads in India and indian companies.

I feel that we were not buying time rather we were preparing for both outcomes.

If the Chinese turned out to be good and willing to move forward with India great we will continue to deepen ties.

If the Chinese were not willing we were preparing for that too (the points you mentioned above).

Yes, preparing for all outcomes sounds better.

you cannot see India’s stance of accepting FDI from China in isolation in a globalised economy. I think modi had made up his mind about CCP in 2015 itself,when Xi brought troops along with him during his first visit.

As I always keep saying, it’s a mistake to assume diplomacy is only black and white.

and let’s not forget CCP is a information black hole, it took a few Americans 30 years to wake up and most of them still support China even after seeing the massive military buildup PLA is doing internally & externally.

 

[etantra]

Some of these OSINT posting Sat pics are being dumb... pics don't provide enough idea with a google maps link

here is the link for the area, I have put a marker on the spur where IA is said to sitting now.. these sat pics say IA is sitting on the next spur towards chisul

US intends to force China to 'fire first shot' over Taiwan - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

 

[prasadr14]

August 29 was Modi preempting the deep-state, not PLA. Now he's put himself in a position where neither side can walk away accepting any ground-situation as status quo. He's put the PLA in a situation where turning back without a fight (to establish ground-sit as status quo) will be perceived as a PLA defeat; likewise, Modi and BJP are politically finished if they accept ground-sit. So the August 29 move is designed to ensure India has a real chance at restoring 01/01/2020 status quo through warfare, because there is no non-violent means of accomplishing it.

Spot on.

Understand why SuSu has been deeply hurt and has been rambling after Aug 29th move.

GOI has pissed on what ever peace plans babus & eco system.
I doubt this is the end though, wouldn't surprise me if GOI keeps escalating costs of Chinese unwelcome stay.
Contrary to opinions, I doubt GOI is in a hurry for a withdrawal.

The more this drags on, the more exposed Chinkies and Xi become.
The more this drags on, the more hatred for Chinkies in India. It would be very hard for any future govt to really be friendly with the chinkies, just like Pakis.

Modi & Co, just pissed, shat on & lit fire to what ever plans everyone else had.
Little wonder SuSu is mightily pissed and is coming across as unhinged. Lest we forget SuSu was always a great friend of the Chinkies.

 

[Abhay Rajput 02]

It's not that simple at all.

We are ready to return to the previous status quo too.

While we have occupied various heights you need to understand that china is in despang and gogra hot springs area too.

Also most of the heights we have taken are in our side of lac and inside our perception and previously not occupied as we did not want to look like aggressors.

We have no such compulsion now we can make camps once again after the status quo is achieved.

No china is not in gogra, hotsprings or galwan pp15.They are at 2 places. Finger areas and despang. And in despang they are not actually there. They are on there side of the LAC , its just our infrastructure is poor so that we cant reach fast and Chinese came and block our parts. Thats despang story. Dont fall for rumors. We have adequate 15000+ troops there along with tanks. Chinese are still on there side of lac. Finger areas is problem because they are making infrastructure there , that meand they will not allow army patrol there , essentially occupying that area. They already had stong presence in f6 but patrol was allowed. Balck top is tricoloured . From helmet top to rechin la - 30km as the crow flies was action dones on 29-30 August. Most of it on ours side of lac, but very close to LAC. Some of the peaks on there side.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

August 29 was Modi preempting the Indian deep-state, not PLA. Now he's put himself in a position where neither side can walk away accepting any ground-situation as status quo. He's put the PLA in a position where turning back without a fight (to establish ground-sit as status quo) will be perceived as a PLA defeat; likewise, Modi and BJP are politically finished if they accept ground-sit (so Indian deep state can no longer officially present that option to the Indian state). So the August 29 move is designed to ensure India has at least a 50-50 chance at restoring 01/01/2020 status quo through warfare, because there is exactly 0% chance of restoring the 01/01/2020 status quo through any non-violent means.

Deep state of which country is he talking about ? US , CHINA or India..?

 

[tarunraju]

Deep state of which country is he talking about ? US , CHINA or India..?

IAS Association, or India's own Pakistan Army.

 

[shade]

Yes, preparing for all outcomes sounds better.

you cannot see India’s stance of accepting FDI from China in isolation in a globalised economy. I think modi had made up his mind about CCP in 2015 itself,when Xi brought troops along with him during his first visit.

As I always keep saying, it’s a mistake to assume diplomacy is only black and white.

and let’s not forget CCP is a information black hole, it took a few Americans 30 years to wake up and most of them still support China even after seeing the massive military buildup PLA is doing internally & externally.

Not because CCP is an information blackhole.
It is because most Americans in the political and business world do not give a damn what PLA/CCP does unless their business interests are hurt.
The last 40 years have basically been the globalist promoted rise of China, before actual chink lobbies were shilling for China as a magical place of cheap labour and large markets, the globalists were lobbying.
Even today you don't see western MSM criticism of China say as much as Russia, even though in reality Russia is a very minor threat to the west.