India-China 2020 Border conflict

DownWithCCP

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After watching these videos, do you think we can fight China? What would I think of Indians as a North East man?
Boss you've gotten support from all over India as you rightly deserve for what has happened, and the dude has been arrested as well so it is the same mainland Indians that got him arrested.
The MLA was very insightful and his concerns also were very genuine and is a thorough gentleman.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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Thats true, but all countries hedge....so India has some levers on Iran too being consumer of oil. I think we most likely will keep it, we did develop ports but you are correct not the same scale as Chinese. We have too many dependencies to independently partner with anyone without US or Euro pressure unlike Chinese or Russians. But its not all bad, I think we will play a spoiler to chinese plans....one way or other and we have no other options to that to survive
That oil card is not working as we have been kicked out of gas projects even ones in which we invested. Iranians will watch out for their interests. The $400 billion investment from China could have come with several ore-conditions - one of which is to reduce India’s influence in Iran. Right now the only connection we have to Iran is the small berth with 2 or 3 cranes at Chaahbaahar. Most of our investments are in Afghanistan. We have not been able to get even the quad countries to use this port to give it more legitimacy. I am not sure what our EAM is doing. I am coming to think that Jaishankar is getting ineffective. Even during the vaccine blockage of raw materials, it was Ajit Doval that persuaded countries to open up. Jaishankar was not seen. He maybe too well educated, too nice, and too polite to be able to do rough deals with semi-rogue, fully-rogue nations and belligerent parties like the China and the US.
At the end of the day, Iran is a rogue regime that finances the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah and Yemen rebels and openly uses terror as a state policy, much like Pakistan does. Chinese have traditionally partnered with dictatorial rogue/semi-rogue nations - NK, Pakistan, Iran, Venezuela, Myanmar etc. - to advance their goals.
We do have a massive dependency on the west due to a large portion of high value exports going there. plus we are just too conservative to make deals with the devil. Iran knows this that we won’t play the aggressive, rough games. And even if we do, we will respect global rules unlike the Chinese or Russians who don’t care about s such rules, Our position on a “rules-based order” means we will never be fully aligned with countries like Russia, Iran, China, Myanmar, Pakistan who have their own interpretation of these orders. So, we need o other out what kind of foreign policy we want - a more aggressive, might is right or softpower, vasudeiva kutumbakam type slogan shouting, or somewhere in the middle. It is this lack of clarity in foreign policy that has made me think about Jaishankar’s ineffectiveness as he has not been able to pursue a laid down path.Japan has a similar dilemma - do we play nice, increase their defense spending to more than 1% of gdp, take on or not of a semi-rogue China?
The only country that seems to have made its intentions and foreign policy clear is Taiwan, and they have said they will “fight to their last”. In fact NK has a clearer FP than we do. That is sad.
 

omaebakabaka

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View attachment 91728
sumsung ownership, most in the hand of wall street, wall street is the real BOSS of sumsung
Foreign investors means all American? Generally stakes are restricted by national laws based on single party or group owning certain percentage especially foreign ones.....korean laws may be different but still foreign does not mean american only....it could be hedge funds, mutual funds and so on and they could from US, Europe or Middle East or China and Japan?
 

omaebakabaka

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That oil card is not working as we have been kicked out of gas projects even ones in which we invested. Iranians will watch out for their interests. The $400 billion investment from China could have come with several ore-conditions - one of which is to reduce India’s influence in Iran. Right now the only connection we have to Iran is the small berth with 2 or 3 cranes at Chaahbaahar. Most of our investments are in Afghanistan. We have not been able to get even the quad countries to use this port to give it more legitimacy. I am not sure what our EAM is doing. I am coming to think that Jaishankar is getting ineffective. Even during the vaccine blockage of raw materials, it was Ajit Doval that persuaded countries to open up. Jaishankar was not seen. He maybe too well educated, too nice, and too polite to be able to do rough deals with semi-rogue, fully-rogue nations and belligerent parties like the China and the US.
At the end of the day, Iran is a rogue regime that finances the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah and Yemen rebels and openly uses terror as a state policy, much like Pakistan does. Chinese have traditionally partnered with dictatorial rogue/semi-rogue nations - NK, Pakistan, Iran, Venezuela, Myanmar etc. - to advance their goals.
We do have a massive dependency on the west due to a large portion of high value exports going there. plus we are just too conservative to make deals with the devil. Iran knows this that we won’t play the aggressive, rough games. And even if we do, we will respect global rules unlike the Chinese or Russians who don’t care about s such rules, Our position on a “rules-based order” means we will never be fully aligned with countries like Russia, Iran, China, Myanmar, Pakistan who have their own interpretation of these orders. So, we need o other out what kind of foreign policy we want - a more aggressive, might is right or softpower, vasudeiva kutumbakam type slogan shouting, or somewhere in the middle. It is this lack of clarity in foreign policy that has made me think about Jaishankar’s ineffectiveness as he has not been able to pursue a laid down path.Japan has a similar dilemma - do we play nice, increase their defense spending to more than 1% of gdp, take on or not of a semi-rogue China?
The only country that seems to have made its intentions and foreign policy clear is Taiwan, and they have said they will “fight to their last”. In fact NK has a clearer FP than we do. That is sad.
Point is we just don't carry enough weight or punching power to play major league power politics. We don't really have anything that we produce that Iran needs desperately other than our oil market and its not important enough to fuck with US for these mullahs at this time....our leaders and mentality is non-aggressive and honestly impotent as we don't even punch proportionate to our weight. At this point all we need in that port is presence to get into Afghanisthan and keep an eye on Baloch and so on......it may be good thing to not invest in Iran too....no guarantee with those nuts
 

Edinburgh

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Foreign investors means all American? Generally stakes are restricted by national laws based on single party or group owning certain percentage especially foreign ones.....korean laws may be different but still foreign does not mean american only....it could be hedge funds, mutual funds and so on and they could from US, Europe or Middle East or China and Japan?
this is open thing in east asia,in 1997 asia economic crisis, US forced south Korea, America financial abtained
Screenshot_20210526_200130.jpg
 

omaebakabaka

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this is open thing in east asia,in 1997 asia economic crisis, US forced south Korea, America financial abtained
View attachment 91826
Ok, here is info from 2020....it really depends on voting rights as that drives the decision making....

"Samsung Electronics is not owned by hedge funds. National Pension Service is currently the largest shareholder, with 9.9% of shares outstanding. The second and third largest shareholders are Samsung Life Insurance Co., Ltd. and BlackRock, Inc., holding 8.1% and 4.8%, respectively.

On studying our ownership data, we found that 25 of the top shareholders collectively own less than 50% of the share register, implying that no single individual has a majority interest."

Anyway OT, I wont be surprized even if they are owned by foreigners.....a country that has been almost evangelized and hosts foreign bases defer their rights to others....logically its possible
 

hit&run

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Looks like another skirmish coming. It is now a hindsight and am ready to be called bluffing. Many years ago on a different forum I read about Chinese mutilated USSR soldiers during one of their stand off on Siberian borders. Before Galwan I wanted to mention the same here at DFI, moreover wanted Indian soilders to repeat the same on them. After Galwan one of the members probably @LETHALFORCE metioned about that incident here.

Chinese subhumans are not predictable breed when it comes to their tactical response. One day they be seen jumping the fences, another day attacking in large numbers and then running back with tails between legs to come back again after few days.

Either we should start replicating the same tactic in the backdrop of preempting them by marking multiples AOIs which go beyond perceived LAC. Or force their tactile response into limited strategic outcomes of capturing large areas with permanent ingress.

Before all this it will be important to know if Indian army is comfortable with erratic Chinese tactical responses and do not want to dicisipline them by forcing strategic losses imposed at them?
 

mist_consecutive

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👀 We are getting 4 Advanced Heron Drones from Israel on emergency procurement. Amid increased Chinese activities in the Ladakh sector and other areas along the Line of Actual Control.

This article is full of surprises

The drones arriving shortly are more advanced than the Herons in the existing inventory and their anti-jamming capability is much better than their previous versions, the sources said.
So probably previous Herons were being jammed by Chinese.

According to sources, the other small or mini drones are being acquired from the US that will be provided at the Battalion level to the troops on the ground and the hand-operated drones would be used to attain awareness about a specific location or area in their respective areas of responsibility.
What ? Which US mini-drones ?

Air Force had exercised the same powers to acquire a large number of anti-tank guided missiles, long-range precision-guided artillery shells along with the Hammer air to ground standoff missiles with a strike range of around 70 kilometres.
Interesting !
 

mokoman

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This article is full of surprises



So probably previous Herons were being jammed by Chinese.



What ? Which US mini-drones ?



Interesting !
So probably previous Herons were being jammed by Chinese.

we lost one to the chinese.

:hmm: maybe they jammed and spoofed GPS like the iranians did with US UAV.
 

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