Imported Single Engine Fighter Jet Contest

[Krusty]

What benefit you are expecting from this deal?

You are mixing three different things into one.
The deal is to manufacture F-16 in India. It never said IAF will buy them. Even LM website also says same.

What posters here going on about is worst case scenario. Why would we shelve Tejas if some american co runs some assembling unit in India? Don't we have enough confidence in IAF? IAF always buys best products. They are very patriotic.

The decision is with IAF. They can chose their option. No need to kill healthy competition. If HAL has enough confidence in its products, it shouldn't worry about this competition.

This deal is more to do with appeasing Trump and at the same time squeezing whatever benefits we can from it. Sometimes we may not get any benefit from this single deal.

Look at these three as separate ones. Most of our posters here have no business sense or have vetted interests.

IAF will fly the F16 mark my words.. I am willing to bet on it. If we manufacture the F16 in India, it would be beyond rediculous for us not to fly them. It makes no sense in any level.

We have a thread as to how Russia screwed us with TOT for the T90. We will have another thread ten years from now for the same reason with the F16. Is all I'm saying. The same logic of improving Indigenous Defence capability was thrown about when the deal for India to 'manufacture' the T90 went down. Then what happened? The T90 served to slow the Arjun project and we got screwed over when it came down to tech transfer and the resultant thread opened to cry on how Russia refused to share critical barrel (Among others) tech. Today how many T90s are in service and how many Arjuns? LCA will go the same way and history will repeat itself. This will have little or no contribution towards AMCA (Please explain how if you think otherwise). Anything use will not be shared. LCA will be flown in small numbers to show token support. Just like the Arjun with the Army. And just like the useless mango rounds used by the IA, our F16s will eventually have to fly against brand new J31s used both but China and Pakistan. The only consolation is the S400(God knows what it's status is) and our own multi layer AD is making good progress.

So what's the Long term plan? Can anyone please explain?

@Ancient Indian @Srinivas_K

 

[Tarun Kumar]

IAF will fly the F16 mark my words.. I am willing to bet on it. If we manufacture the F16 in India, it would be beyond rediculous for us not to fly them. It makes no sense in any level.

We have a thread as to how Russia screwed us with TOT for the T90. We will have another thread ten years from now for the same reason with the F16. Is all I'm saying. The same logic of improving Indigenous Defence capability was thrown about when the deal for India to 'manufacture' the T90 went down. Then what happened? The T90 served to slow the Arjun project and we got screwed over when it came down to tech transfer and the resultant thread opened to cry on how Russia refused to share critical barrel (Among others) tech. Today how many T90s are in service and how many Arjuns? LCA will go the same way and history will repeat itself. This will have little or no contribution towards AMCA (Please explain how if you think otherwise). Anything use will not be shared. LCA will be flown in small numbers to show token support. Just like the Arjun with the Army. And just like the useless mango rounds used by the IA, our F16s will eventually have to fly against brand new J31s used both but China and Pakistan. The only consolation is the S400(God knows that it's status is) and our own multi layer AD is making good progress.

So what's the Long term plan? Can anyone please explain?

No long term plan, its a giant gravy train for middlemen, bureaucrats, politicos and senior military officials. And only those officers will be promoted who support this gravy train.Meanwhile DRDO will continue to loose engineers who will become LM salesmen in India. This is how every foreign invader came to India and established himself and this is how it will be in future. Our own people screw their own country.

 

[square]

IAF will fly the F16 mark my words.. I am willing to bet on it. If we manufacture the F16 in India, it would be beyond rediculous for us not to fly them. It makes no sense in any level.

We have a thread as to how Russia screwed us with TOT for the T90. We will have another thread ten years from now for the same reason with the F16. Is all I'm saying. The same logic of improving Indigenous Defence capability was thrown about when the deal for India to 'manufacture' the T90 went down. Then what happened? The T90 served to slow the Arjun project and we got screwed over when it came down to tech transfer and the resultant thread opened to cry on how Russia refused to share critical barrel (Among others) tech. Today how many T90s are in service and how many Arjuns? LCA will go the same way and history will repeat itself. This will have little or no contribution towards AMCA (Please explain how if you think otherwise). Anything use will not be shared. LCA will be flown in small numbers to show token support. Just like the Arjun with the Army. And just like the useless mango rounds used by the IA, our F16s will eventually have to fly against brand new J31s used both but China and Pakistan. The only consolation is the S400(God knows what it's status is) and our own multi layer AD is making good progress.

So what's the Long term plan? Can anyone please explain?

@Ancient Indian @Srinivas_K

the long term plan could be to get induce private players in higher end defence menufecturing......

 

[mayfair]

the long term plan could be to get induce private players in higher end defence menufecturing......

That could be done by involving the "private players" in manufacturing Tejas. Why not HAL do the design and leave the manufacture to a "private partner"?

Too many vested interests.

 

[Indibomber]

It makes sense to buy F16 if it costs USD100mn at max per aircraft with spares and support. Looking at fine print of this contract that seems unlikely. More likely the cost will be close to USD200mn per aircraft if not more.

Can you share the link for contract?

 

[su35]

I don't know whether IAF will purchase F16 or F18, but one must not forget that American jet cannot perfectly work with the Russian or Chinese jets. PAF maintains tow AWACS one for it F16 and the Chinese radar one for J17

If India get F16 then it will also come with all American weapons as F16 radar cannot fire R 27 or R 77. IF IAF brings F 16 then it will have following armaments

Russia:
R 27 family
R 77 family
R 73 family
Kh 29
Kh 35
Kh 31
Kh 25
Kh 38(will come with PAK FA)
KAB series guided and unguided bombs

India:
Astra
Sudrashan
Anti radiation missile
ALCM

Isreal
Derby
Python
Spice

France
MICA
Metors
Hammers
SCALPS
Sea exocets

UK
ASRAAM

USA:
Paveway series bombs
AIM 120
sidewinder
AGM maverick
joint standoff missile
HARM
Harpoon....

Soon IAF going to have almost each every missile of the world(excluding china and japan one)
I don't about Plane maintenance but maintaining such vast no weapon during the war is itself a nightmare

 

[Krusty]

the long term plan could be to get induce private players in higher end defence menufecturing......

Why not do it now? TATA builds components for USA (C130 components among others l) but can't build for us? It's our own fault

 

[Ancient Indian]

Exactly, these guys are forgetting that it is business as well as setting up aero space eco system in India.
It is up to us Indians to grab what ever tech we get and develop our own.

They want jobs and huge gdp figures but won't let any one to set up industry in iur country.
It's duty of IAF to buy what is beneficial to our forces and our country.
Posters seem to forget about the role of IAF.

 

[Krusty]

They want jobs and huge gdp figures but won't let any one to set up industry in iur country.
It's duty of IAF to buy what is beneficial to our forces and our country.
Posters seem to forget about the role of IAF.

Saaar no one is against job creation. It's just that we should learn from history and carve out the best deal for ourselves as we possibly can. Keeping in mind not only jobbcreations but also being careful not to make the mistakes of the past again.

 

[Krusty]

the long term plan could be to get induce private players in higher end defence menufecturing......

I mean future plan wrt inventory of IAF and the potential adversaries they have to face and how to deal with it using our current plan..

 

[Ancient Indian]

IAF will fly the F16 mark my words.. I am willing to bet on it. If we manufacture the F16 in India, it would be beyond rediculous for us not to fly them. It makes no sense in any level.

We have a thread as to how Russia screwed us with TOT for the T90. We will have another thread ten years from now for the same reason with the F16. Is all I'm saying. The same logic of improving Indigenous Defence capability was thrown about when the deal for India to 'manufacture' the T90 went down. Then what happened? The T90 served to slow the Arjun project and we got screwed over when it came down to tech transfer and the resultant thread opened to cry on how Russia refused to share critical barrel (Among others) tech. Today how many T90s are in service and how many Arjuns? LCA will go the same way and history will repeat itself. This will have little or no contribution towards AMCA (Please explain how if you think otherwise). Anything use will not be shared. LCA will be flown in small numbers to show token support. Just like the Arjun with the Army. And just like the useless mango rounds used by the IA, our F16s will eventually have to fly against brand new J31s used both but China and Pakistan. The only consolation is the S400(God knows what it's status is) and our own multi layer AD is making good progress.

So what's the Long term plan? Can anyone please explain?

@Ancient Indian @Srinivas_K

No one will do ToT with anyone.
It is plain lie Russians sold us all these years. The sooner we realize it the better the deals gonna be.
Arjun MBT is disaster saga. Our OFB cheated us. They would have involved some private co in t90 production like the current deal.

See how different this deal is from that OFB deal.
Here no compulsion on IAF to stick with F16. They can ditch it any time. It is private business.No loss to government. They just buy or not buy.

But the benefits are huge. We get new industry. We get jobs. Our private players will get experience and we can use it in future ventures.

You have to see three seperate players here. Your concerns can be answered by IAF.

 

[Ancient Indian]

Saaar no one is against job creation. It's just that we should learn from history and carve out the best deal for ourselves as we possibly can. Keeping in mind not only jobbcreations but also being careful not to make the mistakes of the past again.

We learnt from history. That's why TATA +LM. Not HAL + LM.

 

[square]

That could be done by involving the "private players" in manufacturing Tejas. Why not HAL do the design and leave the manufacture to a "private partner"?

Too many vested interests.

a private company have jv with another private company has more scope for improvment compare to just working under govt ...

 

[mayfair]

a private company have jv with another private company has more scope for improvment compare to just working under govt ...

Pinaka, Akash, Arihant/Aridaman and ATGAS in the future, there are numerous examples. LCA could have been the same, but instead there are interests trying their best to see that it goes the Arjun way.

 

[square]

Pinaka, Akash, Arihant/Aridaman and ATGAS in the future, there are numerous examples. LCA could have been the same, but instead there are interests trying their best to see that it goes the Arjun way.

in phased manner defence menufecturing would going to private sector......which is good for quick improvments and get latest tech....

 

[mayfair]

in phased manner defence menufecturing would going to private sector......which is good for quick improvments and get latest tech....

It's unclear what tech will go into our private sector via this "partnership". As @Krusty pointed out, no one will transfer critical tech and screwdrivergiri does not lead to tech advancement.

All we will get is an assembly plant.

 

[IndiaRising]

more to it than meets the eye. trump is a businessman..modi is a baniya.... if he's buying useless junk, he won't do it for free.... it will come with conditions attached.

 

[square]

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/www....r-to-relocating-f-16-production-to-india/amp/

according to forbes , this deal was almost done last year ........

 

[WolfPack86]

Lockheed Martin Signs Pact With Tata to Make F-16 Fighter Jets in India

 

[SanjeevM]

The best solution to this controversy as I view it:-
1. TATA is a private business, IAF need not commit to buy a single F-16. TATA work with LM without expectations from IAF buying anything. It may be purely for export market and servicing to existing repair market.
2. Most urgent, HAL/ADA transfer production lines to private players who give and undertaking of setting modern production lines. Private companies should give an undertaking to produce minimum 20-24 Tejas a year. HAL/ADA take care of quality checks.
3. If need be, IAF can buy 20 more Rafael any time to bridge any shortfall. Government to press on getting the Kaveri engine working ASAP that could be the preconditions for any further Rafael deal.
4. Indian agencies HAL/ADA work on research on AMCA or Fgfa or futuristic technology. China is working on ramjet engine. Work in that area.