Idiotic Musings From Firangistan

ezsasa

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Bhai, I have been observing this trend for over a decade now. I have been in C-Suite meetings where the Indian origin directors have been quickly dismissed while the American origin (both, whites and non-whites born and raised in the US) have carried on lengthy discussions of their project status in the same meetings.

I was also a bystander in a debate between an expert (LPIC-1 certified) Linux admin of Indian origin and a shit-for-brains American born & raised Latino Windows engineer, and just on the prowess of the language, the Indian was out argued by this numb nut who spent all his life clicking around the Windows GUI.

This is precisely also why the American sales/marketing person is leaps and bounds ahead of the non-native-English speaking counterpart.

The reason Indians and some other non-native English speaking people get noticed is because many bosses have seen and experienced the fact that no one can outwork Indians/Chinese/Vietnamese. The pakis in fact have it worse, they are largely unskilled, no work ethic and cant speak the language as much as Indians.

PS: I have seen similar comments about Poles and even in one small project that had three Russian devs - and the folks from both of these countries have far better quality than the regular American born employee.

Trust me, the ability to communicate in the language is more than 70% of the effort if you want to show yourself as smart in the US.
this must have happened to the first wave of Indian immigrants who went there as doctors in 70's and 80's as well.

do the individuals who are the receiving end of this, have an issue with this?

by the way this happens in India as well, real test happens in crux situations. it's the management's loss if they don't know how to evaluate talent.

in my case, i take vicarious pleasure in "punishing" these bluffers without them even realising it.
 

another_armchair

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Programmer bros, is there a skills gap with H1B Indians as these Americans keep whining about, or is it Just sour grapes? Does anyone know something about this issue?

Find this extremely hard to believe.

Clients who are entrusted with handling networks, especially those on site are very capable hands.

If they are at a managerial position and their sole responsibility is to liaise/co-ordinate with a team sitting in India then they are not 'supposed' to have 'top-notch' skills but good enough to answer in the affirmative like 'am on it and it shall be resolved asap' etc.

An onsite core team is doubly vetted unless one random asshole managed to suck up to the manager and made it onsite.

To think three less competent people made it onsite is unthinkable that too in networking.

Our chaps have been managing networks for decades. Agree, the certifications they hold may be questionable but the skills are as good/bad as a gora.

Cousin was providing remote network support(from India) for a major retailer in the US. There was a major escalation one day that their 'web app' was not accessible and there was a network outage. After doing the usual checks, cousin said the app server on port 80 was unavailable though the server could be reached(ping) so he asked the gora to check if the web server was up and running. Turns out the server was rebooted and the gora chut didn't check if the web server was running too. He sheepishly apologized and owned up to his fak up.

Most support contracts have seen better ticket resolution and backlog clearance after Indian support stepped in. Yes, we have our short comings but they are not as bad as often exaggerated by anonymous posters claiming to be white people. For all we know, could be a Paki or a Chinese or a Pinoy.

Cousin is currently in the NOC of India's biggest bank and the whiteboys cannot even fathom how much traffic flows in and out every day because of UPI. Except for the odd glitch that arises because of system overload(transaction volume related), things run relatively smooth.
 

GaudaNaresh

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Bhai, I have been observing this trend for over a decade now. I have been in C-Suite meetings where the Indian origin directors have been quickly dismissed while the American origin (both, whites and non-whites born and raised in the US) have carried on lengthy discussions of their project status in the same meetings.

I was also a bystander in a debate between an expert (LPIC-1 certified) Linux admin of Indian origin and a shit-for-brains American born & raised Latino Windows engineer, and just on the prowess of the language, the Indian was out argued by this numb nut who spent all his life clicking around the Windows GUI.

This is precisely also why the American sales/marketing person is leaps and bounds ahead of the non-native-English speaking counterpart.

The reason Indians and some other non-native English speaking people get noticed is because many bosses have seen and experienced the fact that no one can outwork Indians/Chinese/Vietnamese. The pakis in fact have it worse, they are largely unskilled, no work ethic and cant speak the language as much as Indians.

PS: I have seen similar comments about Poles and even in one small project that had three Russian devs - and the folks from both of these countries have far better quality than the regular American born employee.

Trust me, the ability to communicate in the language is more than 70% of the effort if you want to show yourself as smart in the US.
Bhai, i also work corporate IT and have been in it for nearly 20 years. In my experience, what you say is true, but its symptomatic and not causal. because as i said, the same 'speaks poorly' is applicable, even more so, to Koreans and Japanese and Taiwanese but in their case, the whites give them all the graces to 'find the words'and make an effort to understand them.
So this tells me, that the dismissiveness of Indians (and poles & russians) isnt due to language competency, its due to the 'image narrative' constructed in western world around those cultures.

You see, Russians and Poles are the 'schedule cast whites' to the westoids, while we are 'inferior humans due to having inferior societal skills' in their eyes. Their whole idea of india and Indian history revolves around the notion that we've all been ruled by a series of Amrish Puris from Temple of Doom as our Rajas and Maharajas and basically a 'good indian raja' is one who doesnt set his wife on fire or drink from the skulls of his enemies but thats about it- they do not see our culture, our 'great ones' as particularly enlightened or forward thinking as the Euro 'great monarchs'. But the Japanese/Korean/Taiwanese- well these were the Asians 'just civilised enough' to know that while their system was inferior to the white mans, they were still good enough to copy the best to become the best and they basically look on the Koreans/Japs/Taiwanese the way a bishop or a cleric looks on, 30 years later, to the ones they converted and stayed zealously converted, carrying forward 'gods work'.

This is the white mentality.

And the only ones who can deal with this mentality to the full extent, are the Chinese - who basically play the ' if you wanna go racist on the people of the middle kingdom ruled by the Sons of heaven, well two can play this game and i will show you what racism, china style looks like'. This is the main reason ( and not hurr durr human rights/communism/totalitarianism stick they use on China) why the whites fear and hate China & Chinese people : they are the best the world has in doing the whole 'two can play at this game' motto to whites.

This i know, from living in Vancouver, a city that is basically 40-20-20-10-10 split between whites,Indians,Chinese,Filipino and the rest category.
 

GaudaNaresh

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this must have happened to the first wave of Indian immigrants who went there as doctors in 70's and 80's as well.

do the individuals who are the receiving end of this, have an issue with this?

by the way this happens in India as well, real test happens in crux situations. it's the management's loss if they don't know how to evaluate talent.

in my case, i take vicarious pleasure in "punishing" these bluffers without them even realising it.
Indians in workplace deal with these situations far more diplomatically - we rarely go off in a huff of make it an ego tussle with the foreigners, we tend to take either a docile 'whipping boy' pose or ruthless self-advancement as penalty for being treated poorly, when the penny drops.

For eg, my father, who is desi and has never held foreign citizenship ( and is now retired in Desh) but worked 90% of his career in foreign lands took a very ruthless ' i will stop speaking and shut up and go away the moment someone disrespects me or dismisses me from the other team and if you- my direct boss- doesnt interject and put the fucker in his place, but when 2 weeks later you get shit on by your direct boss for why is oil production still not meeting full capacity and you come running to me, you better get me all the perks possible by cranking the hazard pay, trip bonus etc buttons to the max for me to lift a finger and fix the problem you could've avoided if you listented to me' mode.

I tend to follow the same routine and it works well, because its an efficient way to project power as the underdog without spending a shit ton of brain power dealing with the bruised egos from being forthright in the moment, ala westoids.
 

ezsasa

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Indians in workplace deal with these situations far more diplomatically - we rarely go off in a huff of make it an ego tussle with the foreigners, we tend to take either a docile 'whipping boy' pose or ruthless self-advancement as penalty for being treated poorly, when the penny drops.

For eg, my father, who is desi and has never held foreign citizenship ( and is now retired in Desh) but worked 90% of his career in foreign lands took a very ruthless ' i will stop speaking and shut up and go away the moment someone disrespects me or dismisses me from the other team and if you- my direct boss- doesnt interject and put the fucker in his place, but when 2 weeks later you get shit on by your direct boss for why is oil production still not meeting full capacity and you come running to me, you better get me all the perks possible by cranking the hazard pay, trip bonus etc buttons to the max for me to lift a finger and fix the problem you could've avoided if you listented to me' mode.

I tend to follow the same routine and it works well, because its an efficient way to project power as the underdog without spending a shit ton of brain power dealing with the bruised egos from being forthright in the moment, ala westoids.
it's called kshatra spirit, mostly it's genetic, sometimes a few people even manage to cultivate it from their own life experiences. not to be confused with bad behaviour.
if bulk of the people landing outside are docile, maybe some filtering in candidate selection is happening either by design or by chance.

ofcourse not having kshatra spirit is not a bad thing, every thing has it's own pros and cons.
 

sydsnyper

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I don't have much knowledge of the 5-10yr experience level, but right out of college, most Indian developers suck ass. You have people pushing secret passwords out into public github repositories, being utterly clueless as to what is being done where and in general being pretty reluctant to learn. That is about the 70-80% of almost all CS devs I see in college. The rest of them are good and hardworking
I would chalk it up to inexperience, but give them time... and even yourself, and you'll see the difference between you and your colleagues born & raised in the US. I have seen the same laziness and entitlement in a surprisingly large number of 2nd generation Indians too. The ethics of hardwork do not come from citizenship, we who were educated in India know how competitive it was and we had to be the best to survive. Those who have not gone through the grind will never develop that ability to stay on top.
 

here2where

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Programmer bros, is there a skills gap with H1B Indians as these Americans keep whining about, or is it Just sour grapes? Does anyone know something about this issue?

Very true. We had a similar experience recently and had to call up an ex-employee who had quit for higher wages and replaced with peanut monkeys, to come and fix the mess created by the peanut monkeys.
 

GaudaNaresh

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it's called kshatra spirit, mostly it's genetic, sometimes a few people even manage to cultivate it from their own life experiences. not to be confused with bad behaviour.
if bulk of the people landing outside are docile, maybe some filtering in candidate selection is happening either by design or by chance.

ofcourse not having kshatra spirit is not a bad thing, every thing has it's own pros and cons.
I find my approach to be pretty good and efficient version of kshatra spirit, as its still a battle, but on my terms, for my profit and painful lesson for the ones who lose the most by disregarding me. Ultimately, i work to live, not live to work, so i always choose the most efficient ( in terms of effort-which in my field is mostly mental) way of getting my way.
I find flexing when i am needed and getting my boss to eat crow or get out of his comfort zone the next time and making it up to me via $$ to be the most efficient way to go about it. But then again, a lot of it boils down to personality- mine is not to hog the limelight, mine is to move behind the curtains/be the puppetmaster. So that may be a factor too.
 

MrPresident

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Programmer bros, is there a skills gap with H1B Indians as these Americans keep whining about, or is it Just sour grapes? Does anyone know something about this issue?

It is always mixed, you can find rotten apples everwhere. Just that Indians will be judged by their worst and the Whites will be judged by their best.

Imagine what if Indians will be judged by Sundar Pichai or Satya Nadella and countless other bloody good professionals. But still we will always be judged by those bad apples who cannot have a conversation and would land abroad by licking managers ass.

I have seen people sitting in the west having no clue on things they have worked on for 10 to 15 years and give a damn about it. Ofcourse nobody cares for them as they are judged by few exceptional ones.
 
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MrPresident

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Bhai, I have been observing this trend for over a decade now. I have been in C-Suite meetings where the Indian origin directors have been quickly dismissed while the American origin (both, whites and non-whites born and raised in the US) have carried on lengthy discussions of their project status in the same meetings.

I was also a bystander in a debate between an expert (LPIC-1 certified) Linux admin of Indian origin and a shit-for-brains American born & raised Latino Windows engineer, and just on the prowess of the language, the Indian was out argued by this numb nut who spent all his life clicking around the Windows GUI.

This is precisely also why the American sales/marketing person is leaps and bounds ahead of the non-native-English speaking counterpart.

The reason Indians and some other non-native English speaking people get noticed is because many bosses have seen and experienced the fact that no one can outwork Indians/Chinese/Vietnamese. The pakis in fact have it worse, they are largely unskilled, no work ethic and cant speak the language as much as Indians.

PS: I have seen similar comments about Poles and even in one small project that had three Russian devs - and the folks from both of these countries have far better quality than the regular American born employee.

Trust me, the ability to communicate in the language is more than 70% of the effort if you want to show yourself as smart in the US.
Agree to the language part. One who understand this will make a genuine effort to improve, but the bad apples are happy to sit back and say "yes sir and Ok sir".

I would gladly put Germans and Russians in IT above than your average American and other western countries. This is entirely my personal experience.
 

hurrians

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I always wondered like what stops them from closing the borders they have world class defence.why they don't do it if it is a problem to them ?
Do Jews really control them ?
I mean I just don't get it it's very easy to close borders for them they have world class technology. They can do it all by themselves still what's stoping them. That even RW is not doing anything.
How poland & Hungary managed then
1. Genetics
2. Whites prefer fellow abrahamics vs heathens.

Maybe.
 

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