IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

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Punya Pratap

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Part of the Mirage upgrade is getting escort jammers, saving the arse of other aircraft is its job.
Armand2REP I understand you are still busy trying to hardsell french tech even after all these years but please don't dish the MKI's.... As far as I can see, we are going to buy more Rafales as IAF prioritised this over the SU 57 and post Balakot, American stocks have fallen down (F16 and the end user restrictions)

A little suggestion though, make sure that Hollande guy doesn't give anymore wild interviews that will mess up future orders... Also the Scorpene leaks did not go down well which have made MOD a little wary of French along with the non delivery of the help you were supposed to extend on Kaveri.... Don't say the core of M88 is the solution as it's what all the jet engine manufacturers have offered the same.... So sweeten the deal, give us help in sorting out the Kaveri wet thrust of 110 and we can order more Rafales as well as fund and co develop the neuRon... Savvy??
 

Armand2REP

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DOnt make up stuff,

IAF giving Actual battlefield config of EL 8222 capabilities of its 300 flanker fleet to french Rafales is information with no basis.
Even in other exercises with other airforces, IAF flankers used only training frequencies .

Plus rafales sniffing FLanker EL 8222 has nothing to do with Mirages stalling PAF f16s to save SU 30 MKI,
Do you think your Flanker is the only aircraft that uses that IAI product? It is one of the most common jammers in the world.

The French signals database has everything to do with how an upgraded Mirage will be able to see in a battle space full of ECM from a dozen different aircraft and its ability to jam the proper signals. That database has everything to do with Rafale popping up everywhere there is conflict sniffing the trons out of the air. It is on a constant signals collection mission everywhere it goes. You aren't just paying for hardware, you are paying for the most comprehensive signals database on Earth.
 

ersakthivel

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Do you think your Flanker is the only aircraft that uses that IAI product? It is one of the most common jammers in the world.

The French signals database has everything to do with how an upgraded Mirage will be able to see in a battle space full of ECM from a dozen different aircraft and its ability to jam the proper signals. That database has everything to do with Rafale popping up everywhere there is conflict sniffing the trons out of the air. It is on a constant signals collection mission everywhere it goes. You aren't just paying for hardware, you are paying for the most comprehensive signals database on Earth.

look at the post above & the picture


&

It is the skill of IAF pilots , which defeated overwhelming numbers superiority of PAF strike pacakge that day.

Lets not dump on one platform to give credit to another platform,
 

WARREN SS

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As per Sameer joshi's account @joe_sameer on twitter,

SU 30 MKIs & mirages were operating at a long distance apart & facing different enemy strike packages,

SO how come Mirage EW save SU 30 MKI?
Seriously Why IAF not Flown Phalcons I was surprised When there Is Such Large Continent of Interceptors PAF Formation
 

scatterStorm

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tried to post the location of area around the possible F16 crash site.
Metadata in the original video can tell us about the location ... But then we have to dig into metadata. Camera do hold geolocation into there metadata.
 

ersakthivel

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Seriously Why IAF not Flown Phalcons I was surprised When there Is Such Large Continent of Interceptors PAF Formation
MKI finally had it's baptism of fire and the only thing it accomplished was running away from a volley of missiles. It was the skills of the Mirage 2000 pilots and their advanced signals database to lock those Paki turds through their ECM into a full retreat. There is a reason IAF chooses French aircraft as the tip of the spear.

I always welcome IAF mirage 200's upgraded capability.

You hv the right to your own lower opinion of Su 30 MKI.

BUt when su 30 MKI & Mirage 2000s were operating at distances of 100s miles between them ,

The EW skills of MIrage 2000s must be Starship Enterprise quality,to ave far away su 30 MKIs, its like Arjuna of Mahabharatha who vowed that I wont let a single soldier of my side go undefended under the range of my Kandeepam bow,!!!!

Anyway I wont contest your opinion further,

Better EW ware of IAF mirages & rafales are force multi piers for IAF,

But no F16 pilot fancies his chance to go back home, if he wants to lock horns with the mighty IAF SU 30 MKIs,

And that was proved that day by IAF flankers & pilots,

Its a slap in the face for PAF, running away from IAF mirages, SU 30 MKIs & getting shot in the ass by IAF mig21s.

Thats the end of the debate on Mirage 2000 EW capability from my side,

Hv a nice day
 

Armand2REP

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IAF scrambled Mirage, Sukhoi jets last night to fight off Pakistani F-16s near Punjab border
The contingent of Pakistani fighter jets had a surveillance drone with it. The drone might have been used to detect deployment of Indian troops near the Punjab border, as per reports.
BusinessToday.In Last Updated: April 1, 2019 | 20:07 IST



Mirage 2000s and Su-30s were deploayed by IAF after Indian radars picked up activity near Punjab border


Indian Air Force scrambled its Mirage 2000 and Sukhoi Su-30 jets last night to tackle a package of Pakistan Air Force's four F-16 jets close to the international border near Punjab. It is unclear whether the Pakistani fighter jets were trying to invade the Indian airspace. The planes from Indian side were scrambled as soon as aerial activity was detected on radars.

According to sources, the contingent of Pakistani fighter jets had a surveillance drone with it. The drone might have been used to detect deployment of Indian troops near the Punjab border, India Today TV reported.

This recent movement of Pakistan air force jets came at a time when defence foces of both India and Pakistan are on high alert following the Pulwama terror attack on February 14 and the Balakot air strike on February 26.

Pakistan had scrambled fighter jets to violate Indian air space a day after Indian Air Force had sent its top fighter jets to conduct aerial raids on terror camps in Balakot, Pakistan. Both air forces had engaged in dogfights which saw one Indian and one Pakistani fighter jets shot down. The Pakistani army had captured Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, who was flying the downed IAF jet. He was released two days after his capture.

Meanwhile, all three wings of the Indian defence forces, the army, the navy and the air force, have been on operational alert ever since.

https://www.businesstoday.in/curren...pakistani-f-16s-near-punjab/story/333040.html
 

scatterStorm

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So we thwarted an attack again, this means Chief Dhanoa Sir rightly said, "who says the operation is over, it's still going on". He was dead serious about it.

Meanwhile for folks who wanna know that "lock on can be broken and missiles can be outmaneuvered by bleeding there energy".


Another video for folks about missile energy bleed.

 
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Spindrift

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Metadata in the original video can tell us about the location ... But then we have to dig into metadata. Camera do hold geolocation into there metadata.
Generally, when you upload a video to Youtube, twitter, facebook, etc. They strip the metadata. You'll need to get hold of the original video.

Videos made using cellphones may contain geo location data and the data in question is Exif data

ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exif
 

Enquirer

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DRDO should work on making all Mig21s in autonomous UCAVs!!!

If it can fly humans now....it means it's 10 times more reliable in unmanned config.

Simple solution would involve:
- Fix a panel (in front of analog gauges) with tiny cameras & LEDs.
- Computer image processing can be employed to convert analog gauge data into digital readings.
- The mechanical stick/levers can be automated/robotized.
- Datalinks already proven in Rustom/Tapas could be put in Autonomous Mig21 for flight control.
- Mostly Mig21 UCAV could fly in pre-programmed flight pattern. Manual control might have some lag, but it won't matter too much as Mig21 UCAVs don't need to perform sharp acrobatics....but mostly fly in level-flight.

This way IAF can put 100s of Mig21s, 1000s of R77s and 1000s of R73s into use for another 10-15 years.

Current pilots need to keep training on Mig21s to hone their skills.....thus rapidly reducing the life of aircraft. Autonomous Mig21s don't need to be put into that much use, as drone pilots will 'mostly' train on simulators.
The system could be developed in about 1-2 years timeframe!

Mig21 UCAVs could be used in ground attack, deep surgical airstrike or CAP roles!
 

ezsasa

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Incase not yet posted
=========
The Indian Air Force fought one of its most significant post-independence aerial clash with the Pakistan Air Force on 27 February 2019. This graphic is the most authentic sit rep on the attack axis, force packages and geographical locations of the engagement.
The PAF's North & South Axes were decoys, the Central axis was the main strike thrust - with F-16s using 1000 lbs LGBs, JF-17 the REKs and the Mir III/V the H2/ H4 SOW on 16 Corps targets. The PAF did not cross the LC anywhere.

The JF-17 vs Mirage 2000 engagement took place North of J&K as the JF-17s tried to 'push' the M2000s in a 'Red on Red'. The JF-17's NRIET KLJ-7 PD radar did not do well against the M2000s. The JF-17s main job was to keep the M2000s tied up and not move south.

A pair of M21 Bison was scrambled towards the north edge of the Central axis. Another pair was scrambled south west. Abhinandan was part of the SW vector.

The IAF did not have any AWACS on station, the PAF had a Saab 2000 ERIEYE 100 km at 30,000 feet, which controlled the battle space out to 150 Km+ inside India, guiding the HiTech F-16s positioning for Ambushing IAF jets in a designated kill zone in south J&K.

In central Axis, the the F-16s climbed to 40,000 feet and went supersonic. The JF-17s and Mir III/Vs released their payloads out of range due the threat of the M2000s north east of them, whom the JF-17s had not checked effectively

The PAF carried out Comm jamming, which was effective in places. With no AWACS the the IACCS's vectored 2 Su-30MKIs towards Poonch Rajouri. The PAF communication intercepted on the ERIEYE showed that the PAF was vary of the upgraded M2000s moving south.

There were 2x PAF 4 aircraft F-16 formations, one at 40,000 feet and the other undetected at 10-15,000 feet, approaching Nowshera. The plan was to fire the the first volley of AMRAAMS by the 4 F-16s at 40,000 feet, targeting the approaching Su-30MKIs

As the Su-30MKIs would engage in defensive manoeuvring, the second formation of 4 x F-16s at 15,000 feet (which had just finished a LGB run), would target the Su-30MKIs with a second volley of AMRAAMs

The Su-30MKIs picked up the higher pair of F-16s at 35-40,000 feet and anticipated the launch in a 'Red on Red', also cautioned by the GC The Su-30s cranked to reduce their forward travel and being in a position to outrun the AMRAAM's kinematics.

The Su-30MKI's did not get a launch command on their own R27 and RVV-AE AAMs due the differential in the snap up launch, with the F-16s going cold after launching their AMRAAMs

The timely cranking and the chaff helped the Su-30MKIs outmaneuver the AMRAAMs. 5 AIM-120C-5 s were fired on the Sukhois with no hit....

Meanwhile Abhinandan and his No 2 closed into the lower pair of F-16s abeam Nowshera, who were climbing to 25,000 feet to target the Sukhois in a flanking move

It was a 'red on red' for Abhinandan as he was picked up, but pressed on his attack after manually locking his R-73 on a F-16. He fired and turned back. One F-16 was hit and went down. Abhi was hit by an AMRAAM fired by a F-16, ejecting successfuly

Three chutes were reported in the area, with widespread reporting by ISPR and Pal handles that they had three pilots in custody. A parachute with Indian colours was seen coming down. For info the C-9 chute on the F-16 seat has white, orange and green colours

The PAF surprised the IAF by launching AAMs from inside POK. The AMRAAM effectively outranged the IAF AAMs, which did not get launch commands. Keeping the M2000s away from the F-16s was a priority for the PAF.
Abhinandan's act of engaging the lower pair of F-16s disrupted their plan to shoot down an IAF Sukhoi. Abhi scored the first F-16 kill by a Mig-21.

The PAF achieved its aim in creating numerical superiority on the LC at a time when no IAF AWACS was in air, with only 8 IAF aircraft to oppose its daring attack. The small number of IAF pilots did well to fill the gaps in a timely manner.

The IAF urgently needs a host of upgrades from next generation aircraft, more AWACS for a two-front war, better EW, encrypted comm and long range air to air missiles of the Meteor class. The PAF has done well to upgrade its F-16 fleet in last 10 years.

Just for the record, the Sukhois took on best that the PAF had to use against them, their superior training and tactics helping them avoid the infamous AMRAAM 'Pitball Bucket' in good order. By the time they turned hot, the F16s went cold.

The engagement lasted approx. 1000-1030h. By the time IAF's AWACS reached on station, vectoring 2 MiG-29UPGs and more Su-30MKIs towards the Rajouri area, the PAF had turned turtle, leaving in a jiffy after the F16 loss.

 

Armand2REP

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The Indian Air Force fought one of its most significant post-independence aerial clash with the Pakistan Air Force on 27 February 2019. This graphic is the most authentic sit rep on the attack axis, force packages and geographical locations of the engagement.
The Mirages scrambled from Gwalior so why would they be coming from such a Northerly direction? They should be approaching the battle space from where the MKIs are labelled.
 

shankyz

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The Mirages scrambled from Gwalior so why would they be coming from such a Northerly direction? They should be approaching the battle space from where the MKIs are labelled.
Mirages were launched from Gwalior on Feb 26 for the Balakot strike.

On Feb 27, they were either on CAP or scrambled from J&K itself.


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Armand2REP

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Mirages were launched from Gwalior on Feb 26 for the Balakot strike.

On Feb 27, they were either on CAP or scrambled from J&K itself.


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Gwalior is their base. They would not be stationed anywhere else as they do not have the facilities to maintain them unless it was pre-positioned.

The accounts says they were scrambled, ie not in the middle of a CAP. Unless IAF published that Orbat it means nothing. It is really frustrating following this being used to French press conferences publishing details hours after an action.
 
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