IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

[Enquirer]

Still if this kind of "good" stories are intentionally leaked to favored reporters to give a particular weapon a good review, it does not necessarily mean that the "good" story is not true.

If you consider the reporter's seniority and reputation (or lack thereof), there's much to be desired before calling it a 'good' story.

 

[Enquirer]

Now every Paki worth his name is creating a new account on the forum to post story from an arms lobbyist defending F16s reputation!!!!!

 

[asianobserve]

Allow me to repost here my reply in another thread to @Enquirer post trying to cast doubt on Lara Seligman's credibility....

You just have to read her previous article on the dogfight to assess if she's a fair journalist.
She's more of a plant by the US weapons lobby.

I don't think she is planted by weapons lobby. This is probably the story that you read:

India’s Dogfight Loss Could Be a Win for U.S. Weapons-Makers
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/03/0...-u-s-weapons-makers-lockheed-boeing-pakistan/

This story just says that the loss of IAF's Mig-21 only highlights the need for India to update its weapons. And that as a result, US weapons manufacturers could make a windfall by supplying India with their weapons.

The article does not deny IAF's claim of shooting down PAF F-16.

Moreover, her other articles are critical of US weapons manufacturers:

Stealth Fighter Jet Grounded Globally After First-Ever Crash
https://www.google.com/amp/s/foreig...grounded-globally-after-first-ever-crash/amp/

Boeing’s Pentagon Takeover
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/23/boeing-pentagon-takeover-defense-department-mattis-shanahan/

Pentagon Could Kill F-35 JPO, But Not Until 2035
http://m.aviationweek.com/defense/pentagon-could-kill-f-35-jpo-not-until-2035

You cannot draw out any suspicion of bias in favor of US defense companies.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

will be more than happy to compare ourselves to Russia. Our quality is greater than their quantity.

Dude, then go and take russia by yourself.
SAY that to USA and her allies they will be very happy.

 

[Enquirer]

Now what will be the next claim of India? is JF17?

Why don't you wait till US officially confirms the story?

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/

SHARE:

EXCLUSIVE
Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.
New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.
BY LARA SELIGMAN | APRIL 4, 2019, 7:50 PM

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi waves at the public rally in Kolkata, India, on April 3. (Atul Loke/Getty Images)


India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told Foreign Policythat U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.

The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.

It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.

The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.

Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.

“As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”

The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.

He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.

One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.

Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.

But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.

Master of lies as pakis are certainly some things would had happened like loaning a plane from friendly countries IF THIS Counting is even true then.
HERE in our country we will go with IAF numbers.
Atleast now pakis are not saying f-16s were not used.

 

[Neptune]

Now what will be the next claim of India? is JF17?

What will be the next claim of Pakistan? An F-22 shootdown? They already claimed an SU-30mki even though they provided zero evidence even though they could easily provide HUD data, radar data, entercepted radio communications, etc. furthermore no outside sources such as civilians with camera phones, satelites, debris or anything of the sort have surfaced confirming any downed SU-30.

This is typical though, Pakistan claimed it has a pilot that magically downed 5 aircraft within seconds using his machine gun. They also lied about downing Mig-23s which later were photographed landing with the Mig-23 pilots saying they were about to ram an missile up the behind of a Pakistani F-16 but were ordered to not engage Pakistani aircraft. The Pakistani pilots despite having superior aircraft got humiliated but Pakistan spung a wild story nevertheless.


As for the US. People are delusional, they will do anything in their power to protect their reputation. They are firmly on Pakistan's side on this one.

During the Gulf War an F-18 flown by Scott Speicher was shot down. The US maintained it was a surface to air missile that brought him down even though his wingman stated it was a Mig-25. Later it was confirmed a Mig downed the F-18. Hence there is the problem, the US and its allies that fly American aircraft are not always truthful in fact they have been caught covering up losses. Of course India has not provided any proof whatsoever of a downed F-16 either.

 

[Bleh]

Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told Foreign Policy that U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing...

...It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit.

Names? Where is official statement from US? Were the Jordanian F-16s the Sherdils fly even counted?

If these are addressed then there could arise a possibility that;

1. ...the jet shot down was a Jf-17 (pretty similar silhoutte / radar signature) & IAF is mistaken.
2. ...the R-73 was evaded or jammed & WC Varthaman was mistaken.

But just your media by itself is as false as your Quran. The day after 91000 Paki soldiers surrendered in East-Pak to 13000 Indians, Paki papers headlined "victory is near" or some shit like that.

Plus ISPR just swallowed the initial claim of down 2 jets & capturing a 2nd pilot, pretending they never said it!!!
Why not show us that Sikh looking guy Shah(something) Ali alive?? (can someone plz chip in with the full name & photo)

 

[uoftotaku]

Now what will be the next claim of India? is JF17?

Your people even officially claimed to have captured an Israeli pilot! cmon dude..get real...there is a lot of BS being thrown about

 

[Neptune]

Your people even officially claimed to have captured an Israeli pilot! cmon dude..get real...there is a lot of BS being thrown about

And this is the problem with Pakistan. It's difficult to take them seriously. Every time they face India or anybody including the Soviets they make absurd statements and start claiming they shot down aircraft.

Like I said India should not expect anything from the US, they are equally complicit and stand by Pakistan due to the reputation of US arms. Remember the US lied before about their aircraft being shot down by Migs over Desert Storm and they openly use extortion and economic warfare to sell weapons and discourage other countries such as Turkey and India from buying foreign weapons. India is facing a brick wall.

You don't see much about US made aircraft being shot down over Yemen. There is a good reason for it, the US and its allies try to cover up losses. Fortunately the rebels take photos of the wreckage.

 

[Wisemarko]

Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/

SHARE:

EXCLUSIVE
Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.
New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.
BY LARA SELIGMAN | APRIL 4, 2019, 7:50 PM

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi waves at the public rally in Kolkata, India, on April 3. (Atul Loke/Getty Images)


India’s claim that one of its fighter pilots shot down a Pakistani F-16 fighter jet in an aerial battle between the two nuclear powers in February appears to be wrong. Two senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the situation told Foreign Policythat U.S. personnel recently counted Islamabad’s F-16s and found none missing.

The findings directly contradict the account of Indian Air Force officials, who said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16 before his own plane was downed by a Pakistani missile.

It is possible that in the heat of combat, Varthaman, flying a vintage MiG-21 Bison, got a lock on the Pakistani F-16, fired, and genuinely believed he scored a hit. But the count, conducted by U.S. authorities on the ground in Pakistan, sheds doubt on New Delhi’s version of events, suggesting that Indian authorities may have misled the international community about what happened that day.

The news comes just days before the start of India’s general elections, in which Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking another term in office. In the weeks leading up to the election, tensions between India and Pakistan escalated to levels not seen in decades after a Pakistan-based militant group killed more than 40 Indian security officers in a Feb. 14 suicide bombing in India-controlled Kashmir. Both sides have been accused of spreading disinformation and fanning nationalistic flames.

Although the news likely won’t sway Indian voters, Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT, said the way the events have unfolded may affect India’s efforts to deter Pakistan in the future.

“As details come out, it looks worse and worse for the Indians,” Narang said. “It looks increasingly like India failed to impose significant costs on Pakistan, but lost a plane and a helicopter of its own in the process.”

The dogfight between the two nations occurred on Feb. 27, when India says a group of Pakistani jets entered its airspace in response to the first Indian air raid on Pakistani territory since a 1971 war. India scrambled its own jets and gave chase. During the aerial battle that ensued, Varthaman took a missile hit and ejected safely into Pakistani territory.

He was captured by the Pakistani army and released days later in an effort to de-escalate the crisis.

One of the senior U.S. defense officials with direct knowledge of the count said that Pakistan invited the United States to physically count its F-16 planes after the incident as part of an end-user agreement signed when the foreign military sale was finalized. Generally in such agreements, the United States requires the receiving country to allow U.S. officials to inspect the equipment regularly to ensure it is accounted for and protected.

Some of the aircraft were not immediately available for inspection due to the conflict, so it took U.S. personnel several weeks to account for all of the jets, the official said.

But now the count has been completed, and “all aircraft were present and accounted for,” the official said.

Did US officials count PAF F-16 sold through FMS? Yes.
Did they count all the F-16 PAF has? Nope. The ones bought used from Jordan do not fall under FMS category and US is not empowered to count them.
Saying this because I know about this issue. Not to start another 100 page arguments.
Cheers.

 

[Neptune]

When and who claim officially?????

Did Pakistani not make patches with pictures of an SU-30MKI and then had pilots pose wearing those patches for propaganda. Again show us that downed SU-30 because it seems to have never existed or got sucked into another dimension. Funny how we always have photos of Indian aircraft that crash even the Indian helicopter that came down that day but strangely no one has any photos of the downed SU-30 Pakistan claims to have downed. Not even a smoke plume was videotaped.

 

[asianobserve]

Did US officials count PAF F-16 sold through FMS? Yes.
Did they count all the F-16 PAF has? Nope. The ones bought used from Jordan do not fall under FMS category and US is not empowered to count them.
Saying this because I know about this issue. Not to start another 100 page arguments.
Cheers.

Even if it's true that Jordan donated an F-16 to PAF, still this donated F-16 will fall under US monitoring since the donation in the first place must be approved first by the US. F-16s donated to Pakistan is most particularly a sensitive issue to the US since it does not want Pakistan to get more than what the US thinks it only deserves under minimum deterrence rule to maintain strategic balance with India and neighbors. (The US has not choice but to continue to engage Pakistan due to the latter's strategic location).

 

[Srinivas_K]

@PAKSHAHEEN you are doing your part for your country thinking DGISPR will some how bring victory in this info. warfare, knowing fully well that your guy just somersaulted after the incident of feb 26 and 27 and gave contradictory statements there by ensuring your defeat.

After that what ever things you come up will only contradict your previous claims.

This news will die down in a day or two. May be you should go to Arabs forum and try there to gain some lost prestige.

What is the point of spreading a narrative time and again when it will be shot down after a couple of days?

 

[Bleh]

Because we win on the battlefield but you win on the table..

Yes! 91000 Pakis surrendering to 13000 Indians was a great victory... even greater victory was getting kicked out of Kashmir & failing to take back in 70 years!!!

You're child... but
These are not children's playcraft..

What a strong, valid counter-argument with confirmations & sources... not.
Go bring those, or bomb someone or shoot some people, you'll feel better.

Pakis have replaced almost a dozen debunked lies with news one till now, no reason to the the 13th would be truthful. That'd be unislamic!!!

 

[Wisemarko]

Even if it's true that Jordan donated an F-16 to PAF, still this donated F-16 will fall under US monitoring since the donation in the first place must be approved first by the US. F-16s donated to Pakistan is most particularly a sensitive issue to the US since it does not want Pakistan to get more than what the US thinks it only deserves under minimum deterrence rule to maintain strategic balance with India and neighbors. (The US has not choice but to continue to engage Pakistan due to the latter's strategic location).

It needs US approval but not counting that falls under FMS sale only. That’s why Pakistan will not quote this article. Because it will force US to disclose that they did not count all PAF F-16.

 

[patriots]

020202020202020202002020202

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Now what will be the next claim of India? is JF17?

Not at all, we know the electronic signature of F-16 during military exercises. And we detected same signature during dogfight.

 

[Neptune]

It also came to know how India experienced the experience of transforming its defeat into victory۔۔
But this time, Pakistan will compete on every front and on every forum..not only on battle field...
Because we win on the battlefield but you win on the table..

I'm not even Indian but it's actually Pakistani that transforms defeats into victory. After all Pakistan surrendered and has a long history of exaggerating air engagements.

The Pakistani mission in which they coincidentally downed Mig-21 was actually a big flop (not that India performed well either). Pakistan had 24 fighter aircraft as well as AWACS. They entered Indian airspace in a show of force and with the intent of hitting targets, all their missiles missed after Indian aircraft challenged the Pakistani force. The Indian side reportedly had no AWACS which makes all the difference. They also only had 8 aircraft, 2 SU-30MKIs, 2 Mirages and 4 Mig-21s. Pakistani clearly had a mission to try to ambush and shoot down a SU-30MKI based on the fact that they wildly launched a volley of missiles towards the Sukhois, all missed. Pakistan send its most senior pilots as well, despite this and numerical superiority and AWACS Pakistan failed.

They only managed to down a Mig-21 and that too was after it entered Pakistan airspace which is alarming considering they had so much aircraft and they only managed to down the Mig after it intruded into Pakistani airspace and had an F-16 visually in sight.


There were no winners that day. Both sides were unprepared and made embarrassing mistakes.

 

[Joker]

When and who claim officially?????

The hilale Imtiaz awardee Ghafoora said they have two pilots then paki inbreds killed one and then Ghafoora said they one pilots, idiots killed the wrong pilot.....zhail chuiyas paakis are.....btw...start dumping paki rupee, it's gonna crash and burn