IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

[Mikesingh]

I like the cherry picking. How does this report equate to Pakistan loosing an F-16? While the same USA did the F-16 count and found nothing amiss and India hasn't provided a proof of F-16. Just mere words? Is this how the world suppose to run now? On the basis of lies and deceptions. World knows how India Hijacked an Airplane in 1971 and then blamed Pakistan so that it can close the airspace and not allow jets from West Pakistan to reach East Pakistan. Same deception is being applied here to hide the loss of SU-30 jet

Either you accept both reports as true. About F-16 count and this Report. Or you deny both reports. There is no in between. Or Provide the proof F-16 Downing.

Second dead Pilot, Just couple pages ago, I shared the Indian witnesses reporting they saw an airplane crashing down the indian side, If you want to go down this alley of second dead pilot, we can do this all day. Your Indian Media claiming SU-30 crash, Indian witnesses in kashmir on ground claiming second airplane crashing in Indian Kashmir. Ask your Airforce why they are hiding the loss second Jet.

Pakis are known to talk shit and spread disinfo and lie through their teeth like they've been doing since 1947.
Your goofy Gafoora stressed on that day that one pilot has been caught and admitted to the CMH due to injuries. Where is he? Dead as a dodo and buried somewhere in the Land of the Pure. He was the F-16 pilot who bailed out and was lynched by the civ crowd thinking he was Indian. But how did he do the Houdini act and disappear from hospital?

And then that report stating that Pak's F-16s are all accounted for was written by some journalist who knows shit about the incident. There was and has been no official confirmation from the US state dept or the Pentagon or the US government. You clowns take anything for granted even if is from some idiot writing for a private magazine as long as it suits your agenda.

And how were the F-16s counted? Did that journalist go and count each plane at every air base? Or was a report asked from the base commanders if any plane was missing? Who would have admitted in public that one F-16 is missing from the base and get court martialed for telling the truth?? So obviously they will naturally have given an all correct report. Can you educate us how these planes were counted?

And you Pakis contention that you shot down a SU 30 is a joke of galactic proportions. Talking nonsense without a shred of evidence is par for the course for you Pakis. You fellows have become a joke!!

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Pakis are known to talk shit and spread disinfo and lie through their teeth like they've been doing since 1947.
Your goofy Gafoora stressed on that day that one pilot has been caught and admitted to the CMH due to injuries. Where is he? Dead as a dodo and buried somewhere in the Land of the Pure. He was the F-16 pilot who bailed out and was lynched by the civ crowd thinking he was Indian. But how did he do the Houdini act and disappear from hospital?

And then that report stating that Pak's F-16s are all accounted for was written by some journalist who knows shit about the incident. There was and has been no official confirmation from the US state dept or the Pentagon or the US government. You clowns take anything for granted even if is from some idiot writing for a private magazine as long as it suits your agenda.

And how were the F-16s counted? Did that journalist go and count each plane at every air base? Or was a report asked from the base commanders if any plane was missing? Who would have admitted in public that one F-16 is missing from the base and get court martialed for telling the truth?? So obviously they will naturally have given an all correct report. Can you educate us how these planes were counted?

And you Pakis contention that you shot down a SU 30 is a joke of galactic proportions. Talking nonsense without a shred of evidence is par for the course for you Pakis. You fellows have become a joke!!

The Pakis should thank their Allah that they did not come in visual range of the Su30, otherwise god only knows how many F-16 would have been shot down that day.

 

[Mikesingh]

They d

The Pakis should thank their Allah that they did not come in visual range of the Su30, otherwise god only knows how many F-16 would have been shot down that day.

These Paki pilots didn't have the guts. They just released their payloads from miles within Pork territory, and then turned and scooted back to safety! And these idiots say they shot down a Su 30! Lol! And some clown got an award for that too!! A far lesser award than that fellow who engaged with Abhinandan!! So for them a MiG 21 was more important than their so called 'downing' of a SU?

 

[Foxbat]

Not related to the India and Pakistan conflict, but came across this article on F-16.net, a comprehensive website dedicated to F-16s. A perfect example of western propaganda never accepting a defeat and distorting the facts.

In any other circumstances a missile exploding near a plane and causing it to crash would be described as shot down but for a US aircraft its due to sudden engine failure :biggrin2:

NATO military spokesman Colonel Konrad Freytag said the U.S. F-16CG (#88-0550) suffered engine failure as it returned from a mission over Yugoslavia and the cause was being investigated.Serbian media said the aircraft had been shot down.

Source: http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article214.html

USAF #88550
F-16C Block 40
Lost over Serbia near Nakucani during operation Allied Force due to engine failure, which was caused by a nearby SA-3 explosion.

Source: http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/airframe-profile/2787

 

[Neptune]

Not related to the India and Pakistan conflict, but came across this article on F-16.net, a comprehensive website dedicated to F-16s. A perfect example of western propaganda never accepting a defeat and distorting the facts.

In any other circumstances a missile exploding near a plane and causing it to crash would be described as shot down but for a US aircraft its due to sudden engine failure :biggrin2:

NATO military spokesman Colonel Konrad Freytag said the U.S. F-16CG (#88-0550) suffered engine failure as it returned from a mission over Yugoslavia and the cause was being investigated.Serbian media said the aircraft had been shot down.

Source: http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article214.html

USAF #88550
F-16C Block 40
Lost over Serbia near Nakucani during operation Allied Force due to engine failure, which was caused by a nearby SA-3 explosion.

Source: http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/airframe-profile/2787

View attachment 40717

I have already spoke about this before but it’s still interesting. The Pentagon also purposely covered up the incident were an F-18 flown by Scott Speicher was shot down by a Mig-25. They blamed the loss on a SAM knowing full well that was not the case, even Speicher’s wingman said it was a missile from a Mig-25. The only reason the US was forced to admit it was shot down by a Mig was because the pilot was missing and the CIA was tasked in finding out what happened to the F-18 and the pilot. The CIA finally published what actually happened. If Speicher survived and was rescued the F-18 loss would still be officially classified as a loss to a SAM.



As for F-16.Net that website also still proudly talks about fake Pakistani kills, like the two Mig-23s that were never shot down. It amazing that Pakistani claims, which have zero evidence are excepted as facts in the west. However, the Soviet Union outright denied losing any aircraft on that day, then photos and interviews of the specific aircraft and pilots that that were involved in those clashes surfaced which debunked Pakistani, but people still believe what they want to.

In a separate encounter with Soviets in 1987 a Pakistani F-16 was shot down. The US and Pakistan covered the loss up initially. Then they admitted to the loss but claimed it was friendly fire. Apparently one of the best friend or foe IFF systems in the world which equipped F-16s failed. But it gets better.....

Pakistani F-16s which were within visual range of each other got a radar lock, supposedly of a Mig-23, the radar should have identified the aircraft as hostile, then the F-16 furthest from the Mig-23 got a missile tone and fired at the Mig, Pakistanis claim the missile hit the F-16 instead. So apparently those Pakistanis were the most incompetent pilots on earth coupled with faulty equipped.

What is interesting is why would a Pakistan F-16 put his wingmen in danger by firing a missile when his wingman was in front of him? Why did the lead F-16 not just fire the instead? How did the IFF also fail? This story has too many coincidence, cover-ups and blunders that make it difficult to believe.

 

[Foxbat]

In a separate encounter with Soviets in 1987 a Pakistani F-16 was shot down. The US and Pakistan covered the loss up initially. Then they admitted to the loss but claimed it was friendly fire. Apparently one of the best friend or foe IFF systems in the world which equipped F-16s failed. But it gets better.....

Pakistani F-16s which were within visual range of each other got a radar lock, supposedly of a Mig-23, the radar should have identified the aircraft as hostile, then the F-16 furthest from the Mig-23 got a missile tone and fired at the Mig, Pakistanis claim the missile hit the F-16 instead. So apparently those Pakistanis were the most incompetent pilots on earth coupled with faulty equipped.

What is interesting is why would a Pakistan F-16 put his wingmen in danger by firing a missile when his wingman was in front of him? Why did the lead F-16 not just fire the instead? How did the IFF also fail? This story has too many coincidence, cover-ups and blunders that make it difficult to believe.

I had posted on this before, reposting:

AFGHANS DOWN A PAKISTANI F-16, SAYING FIGHTER JET CROSSED BORDER
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/1987/05/02/...i-f-16-saying-fighter-jet-crossed-border.html

Exclusive Friendly fire downs Pakistani F-16; U.S. in a coverup
Source: https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/0...Pakistani-F-16-US-in-a-coverup/8251553579200/

"However, Pakistan first concocted the story primarily to 'save face' and prevent any embarrassment of its Air Force, which has created an F-16 craze among the Pakistani people, they said."

"A Pentagon official, who stuck to the original contention that the Soviets downed the plane, acknowledged receiving reports of the accident but said they were regarded as 'less credible' than Pakistan's official version."

"Pakistani military officials said one of the Afghan planes then downed the F-16 with an air-to-air missile, according to U.S. analysts."

The Mig-23 shot it down and even many American Sources admit it. Both articles are from 1987, funny how Pakistani's will quote the NYTimes when it supports their claims and rubbish it when it does not.

 

[Absolut_Vodka]

I had posted on this before, reposting:

AFGHANS DOWN A PAKISTANI F-16, SAYING FIGHTER JET CROSSED BORDER
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/1987/05/02/...i-f-16-saying-fighter-jet-crossed-border.html

Exclusive Friendly fire downs Pakistani F-16; U.S. in a coverup
Source: https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/0...Pakistani-F-16-US-in-a-coverup/8251553579200/

"However, Pakistan first concocted the story primarily to 'save face' and prevent any embarrassment of its Air Force, which has created an F-16 craze among the Pakistani people, they said."

"A Pentagon official, who stuck to the original contention that the Soviets downed the plane, acknowledged receiving reports of the accident but said they were regarded as 'less credible' than Pakistan's official version."

"Pakistani military officials said one of the Afghan planes then downed the F-16 with an air-to-air missile, according to U.S. analysts."

The Mig-23 shot it down and even many American Sources admit it. Both articles are from 1987, funny how Pakistani's will quote the NYTimes when it supports their claims and rubbish it when it does not.

I think these incidents prompted paki air force how to hide such losses in future. They may have done a speedrun how to hide an aircraft shot down learning from experiences of the past.

There is one more F16 crash where it was struck by wild boar. Classic case of collision of two pigs.

 

[tsunami]

So basically there are almost 4-5 air to air kill of F-16 when USofA call it undefeated. LOL.

 

[Bhurki]

https://thewire.in/security/christine-fair-iaf-balakot-pakistan-f16/amp/
IAF Did Not Shoot Down Pak F-16 in Balakot Aftermath, Says US Scholar Christine Fair
Fair, whose work on Pakistan is frequently cited by the Indian side, took on former air chief BS Dhanoa, saying the IAF narrative is not based on an empirical body of facts but dictated more by “things deployed by politicians to win elections".
(Usually she banks towards India on most sides, so don't know whats up here)

 

[Atcjurvin]

https://thewire.in/security/christine-fair-iaf-balakot-pakistan-f16/amp/
IAF Did Not Shoot Down Pak F-16 in Balakot Aftermath, Says US Scholar Christine Fair
Fair, whose work on Pakistan is frequently cited by the Indian side, took on former air chief BS Dhanoa, saying the IAF narrative is not based on an empirical body of facts but dictated more by “things deployed by politicians to win elections".
(Usually she banks towards India on most sides, so don't know whats up here)

Lmao how can a person sitting in America tell this just by reading some reports one doesn't become expert. IAF is having radar signatures, awacs signatures and communications intercept does have those? NO. I have seen plenty of these so called experts who say anything just for reputation or for few dollars.

 

[Narasimh]

https://thewire.in/security/christine-fair-iaf-balakot-pakistan-f16/amp/
IAF Did Not Shoot Down Pak F-16 in Balakot Aftermath, Says US Scholar Christine Fair
Fair, whose work on Pakistan is frequently cited by the Indian side, took on former air chief BS Dhanoa, saying the IAF narrative is not based on an empirical body of facts but dictated more by “things deployed by politicians to win elections".
(Usually she banks towards India on most sides, so don't know whats up here)

American military industrial complex at work.. they will never let their product which is on sale in the most lucrative contest be shown in bad light.

 

[Foxbat]

https://thewire.in/security/christine-fair-iaf-balakot-pakistan-f16/amp/
IAF Did Not Shoot Down Pak F-16 in Balakot Aftermath, Says US Scholar Christine Fair
Fair, whose work on Pakistan is frequently cited by the Indian side, took on former air chief BS Dhanoa, saying the IAF narrative is not based on an empirical body of facts but dictated more by “things deployed by politicians to win elections".
(Usually she banks towards India on most sides, so don't know whats up here)

Interesting article, just that it completely contradict her article from March 2019:bounce:

Hard Lessons from Pulwama to Balakot and Beyond


Pakistani hubris and American cupidity



C Christine Fair | 07 Mar, 2019

Source: https://openthemagazine.com/essay/hard-lessons-from-pulwama-to-balakot-and-beyond/

"India, in turn, shot down a Pakistani jet which crashed on Pakistan’s side of the LoC. The fate of that pilot is unclear: Indian sources claim he was lynched by Pakistanis who mistook him for an Indian pilot while Pakistani sources deny this claim without offering alternative explanations."

Why do we bother calling these "Western Experts" when we already know the truth ?

 

[darshan978]

American military industrial complex at work.. they will never let their product which is on sale in the most lucrative contest be shown in bad light.

Look at this.........................

 

[Absolut_Vodka]

https://thewire.in/security/christine-fair-iaf-balakot-pakistan-f16/amp/
IAF Did Not Shoot Down Pak F-16 in Balakot Aftermath, Says US Scholar Christine Fair
Fair, whose work on Pakistan is frequently cited by the Indian side, took on former air chief BS Dhanoa, saying the IAF narrative is not based on an empirical body of facts but dictated more by “things deployed by politicians to win elections".
(Usually she banks towards India on most sides, so don't know whats up here)

She didn't just said India did not shot down F-16 but she went hyper and ballistic. A person usually looses his cool when he/she has no facts to counter.

 

[Deathstar]

She didn't just said India did not shot down F-16 but she went hyper and ballistic. A person usually looses his cool when he/she has no facts to counter.

Kuch thoda wreckage ka proof mil jaye bas...............circumstantial proofs bahot hai

 

[Anikastha]

Kuch thoda wreckage ka proof mil jaye bas...............circumstantial proofs bahot hai

i think pak cleared any chance of fi ding wreckage.... they must have destroyed it....may f16 crashed far away from human settlement....so they were able to hide it.....

 

[Bhurki]

i think pak cleared any chance of fi ding wreckage.... they must have destroyed it....may f16 crashed far away from human settlement....so they were able to hide it.....

The total number of f 16 procured by PAF were 85.
9 were lost to accidents prior to the skirmish which leaves 76 in operation. Considering these 76 are split into 3 groups of Block 16, ADF, Block 52 with known number of each in service.
I don't see how difficult it'll be for IAF to collect opint to understand what tail number is missing. It should be rather easy.

 

[Absolut_Vodka]

Joe Sameer said in event that couple of AMRAAMs were fired from only 30 Km far from Su30MKI. There's misconception that all AMRAAMs were fired from D1max. He further states that this validated Indian tactics and EW capabilities in real world. No wonder Paki closed their airspace for 5 months and ran to China for PL15 in panic.

He further stated that only 1 AIM120 hit out of 6 launch has skewed its kill probability which is why USA may be covering up facts of shortcoming of its weapon systems.

 

[Foxbat]

The total number of f 16 procured by PAF were 85.
9 were lost to accidents prior to the skirmish which leaves 76 in operation. Considering these 76 are split into 3 groups of Block 16, ADF, Block 52 with known number of each in service.
I don't see how difficult it'll be for IAF to collect opint to understand what tail number is missing. It should be rather easy.

This assumption is based on the fact that the PAF is truthful with losses which is probably not the case, copying from my earlier post:

The PAF and their F-16 fleet size is a black box which they only know of. How many planes are currently operational how many are lost in accidents is a mystery.

Between the 8 year period between 1986 to 1994 the PAF lost 8 F-16s in "accidents". This includes one which might have been shot down by a Russian Mig-23 but is counted as a own goal by another F-16.

For 15 years between 1994 to 2009 the PAF lost only 1 F-16 in an accident.

For the next 10 years between 2009 and 2019 not a single one was lost.

Interesting point to note during the 1980s-90s the PAF only had 34-45 F-16s and the maximum attrition rate along with a full supply of spares and support from the US.

When the numbers went by to 70+ the attrition rate became nearly zero and during this period it was under sanctions and spare part supplies were stopped. So 1 lost in 25 years with 70+ operational and 8 lost in 8 years with average of 40 operational.

Source:http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/mishaps-and-accidents/airforce/PAF/

The average annual attrition for the worldwide F-16 fleet is 0.33% for the PAF its claimed to be less than 0.05% :biggrin2:. Despite having extended periods of no access to spare parts and heavy usage their attrition rate is 1/7th of F-16s users like the USAF, Israel, Norway ! The earlier Block 10/15 models which make up more than 50% of the PAFs fleet have even higher average annual attrition numbers in western nations!
Source: http://www.f-16.net/fleet-reports_article5.html

 

[Bhurki]

This assumption is based on the fact that the PAF is truthful with losses which is probably not the case, copying from my earlier post:

The PAF and their F-16 fleet size is a black box which they only know of. How many planes are currently operational how many are lost in accidents is a mystery.

Between the 8 year period between 1986 to 1994 the PAF lost 8 F-16s in "accidents". This includes one which might have been shot down by a Russian Mig-23 but is counted as a own goal by another F-16.

For 15 years between 1994 to 2009 the PAF lost only 1 F-16 in an accident.

For the next 10 years between 2009 and 2019 not a single one was lost.

Interesting point to note during the 1980s-90s the PAF only had 34-45 F-16s and the maximum attrition rate along with a full supply of spares and support from the US.

When the numbers went by to 70+ the attrition rate became nearly zero and during this period it was under sanctions and spare part supplies were stopped. So 1 lost in 25 years with 70+ operational and 8 lost in 8 years with average of 40 operational.

Source:http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/mishaps-and-accidents/airforce/PAF/

The average annual attrition for the worldwide F-16 fleet is 0.33% for the PAF its claimed to be less than 0.05% :biggrin2:. Despite having extended periods of no access to spare parts and heavy usage their attrition rate is 1/7th of F-16s users like the USAF, Israel, Norway ! The earlier Block 10/15 models which make up more than 50% of the PAFs fleet have even higher average annual attrition numbers in western nations!
Source: http://www.f-16.net/fleet-reports_article5.html

The crash claims aren't false.
They are backed up by a lot of publicly available information.

Here's PAF F16 fleet by versions with tail numbers.

Here's each aircraft that has crashed with their tail number and version

And these are the air bases and units that one needs to look out for to get a proof that a specific tail number is missing.