IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

[AmoghaVarsha]

It isn't video game that's why. We seriously lack numbers and most of our upgrade and capacity building programme are behind schedule.

Though I agree we have a week political will and national will to teach them a final lesson which has resulted in this state .

The numerical scenario may not improve for decades. So we will keep taking hits?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Flying Dagger]

The numerical scenario may not improve for decades. So we will keep taking hits?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Nope we can certainly hit them but be prepared to take some hit ourselves too.

More than war I believe by destroying their agro sector we can achieve much more. Their economy is already down.

And this scenario will improve within next 5 years. 36+ Rafale Weapon package upgrade like Derby ER Meteor and new longer range Russian missile and SAM 's will change the fortune by 2022.

 

[Compersion]

It isn't video game that's why. We seriously lack numbers and most of our upgrade and capacity building programme are behind schedule.

Though I agree we have a week political will and national will to teach them a final lesson which has resulted in this state .

Agree it is not video game. But we must have war gamed and also used game theory on each dynamic at play.

Many have said that they returned Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman VrC and we provided them a temporary (?) reprieve after we threatened them with total demolitions of their military infrastructure and supply infrastructure. But why give the Pakis a chance to even talk after such things.

I believe the paki planes that survived that day are earmarked and set to be taken down (at a time and place of our choosing) for what they attempted to do and did (indirectly also to the helicopter).

Pakis given a chance to talk. Straight analysis’s of paki Air Force (they are depleted?).

Shimla agreement - we don’t want create a impression in Pakis hearts we are malafide. Fact is the people of paki (current) areas will admire strength and strong Bharat. Also this nonsense Bharat doesn’t invade first (see Pakis pricking and cutting 1001 times already - proper attempt of invasion).

Besides the point it’s like in 65 we stopped too early and in 71 we stopped too early. In Siachen we stopped too early (?) ... etc etc But wise noble people say many don't know cost of war yet they calling for a war. And there are many know the cost of not fighting a war in right time and will all be calling for peace. Pakis rejoice on surviving each day. It’s time to decimate them. Point in case the artillery, missiles (I.e Brahmos +) and heavy weapons we have inducted in massive numbers and continue induct that shows that we out number the Pakis and we can dominate the ground lines. But talking of airforce- those Pakis that survived on feb 28 ... I find it ironic they continue to talk like they talk. Zip them up.

Jai Hind

 

[Neptune]

The numerical scenario may not improve for decades. So we will keep taking hits?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

The Indian Air Force problem was not numerical in nature on the 27th per-say it was lack preparedness and underestimating Pakistan’s resolve and boldness after the Balakot strike. I don’t know what the Indians were thinking, they had very little aircraft and no AWACS airborne during the Pakistani counter operation the day after. The Indians had something like four aircraft flying CAP. Perhaps they thought Pakistan was going to deny any strike happened and do nothing, perhaps India thought Pakistan was going to strike on another day. Either way it seems the preparedness and Indian networking was dismal. There is talk that Pakistan had some success in jamming too. The Indians put too much fate in Israeli networking systems and jammers it seems or perhaps there was issues in how everything worked together or lack thereof. It seems more work is needed.


India did a superb job in the weeks leading up to Balakot strike by conducting large aerial exercises near Pakistan so not to attract Pakistani suspensions. By the time of the Balakat strikes the Pakistanis got used to the Indian Air Force activity on its borders. India then launched a large formation of Mirages (12) to hit targets. 4 SU-30MKIs were used as escorts while 2 AWACS and 2 aerial refuelers were airborne to provide crucial support. The Indians then launched 4 more SU-30s as decoys to draw attention away from the main force. In all a vary brilliantly executed plan that established air dominance. However, the day after the Indians were caught sleeping. They should have at least transferred additional SU-30s from other sectors and squadrons and stationed them on the forward airbases to provide more available aircraft to conduct 24 hours CAPs. The Pakistani would have been discouraged and reluctant to strike if India had more aircraft airborne and more SU-30 squadrons stationed on the border that were specifically sent to confront Pakistani aircraft. Pakistan did nothing when the Indian Air Force had numerical superiority over Balakat. They also attacked far from SU-30 squadrons and through their best aircraft, F-16s, at just a few SU-30s.

 

[WolfPack86]

India brought 657 MIG- 21 aircraft from Soviet union.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

India brought 657 MIG- 21 aircraft from Soviet union.

No, India produced 657 MiG-21 locally on license.

 

[WolfPack86]

India produced 657 MIG-21 locally under license from Soviet union.

 

[Neptune]

The odds are stacked against use, but I have an idea. Let’s start a campaign to see if we can persuade India to release the HUD footage of Avenger1 and Avenger2 during the F-16 engagement. Any information India feels may be sensitive may be blacked out. This would finally put Pakistani conspiracies to rest, because apparently the Air Force Day flyover meant nothing to them. I think if India released the HUD footage it would be a major embarrassment to Pakistan and ISPR, it might make them think twice before engaging in false conspiracies.

Moreover, it would be interesting for us fanboys. I for one am fascinated with the F-16 vs SU-30 engagement/Balakat. I don’t think it’s impossible, since the United States, France, Greece, Russia, Turkey and many other countries have shared real combat HUD footage. If anyone has contacts in the India Air Force let’s see if we can persuade someone to release something. Let’s start with the official Twitter account of the Indian Air Force.

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author



The following is from Cybersurg (YouTube ). Not sure I believe it’s an F-16, it could be anything including the Mig-21 wreckage but here it is:

 

[vampyrbladez]

The odds are stacked against use, but I have an idea. Let’s start a campaign to see if we can persuade India to release the HUD footage of Avenger1 and Avenger2 during the F-16 engagement. Any information India feels may be sensitive may be blacked out. This would finally put Pakistani conspiracies to rest, because apparently the Air Force Day flyover meant nothing to them. I think if India released the HUD footage it would be a major embarrassment to Pakistan and ISPR, it might make them think twice before engaging in false conspiracies.

Moreover, it would be interesting for us fanboys. I for one am fascinated with the F-16 vs SU-30 engagement/Balakat. I don’t think it’s impossible, since the United States, France, Greece, Russia, Turkey and many other countries have shared real combat HUD footage. If anyone has contacts in the India Air Force let’s see if we can persuade someone to release something. Let’s start with the official Twitter account of the Indian Air Force.

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author



The following is from Cybersurg (YouTube ). Not sure I believe it’s an F-16, it could be anything including the Mig-21 wreckage but here it is:

View attachment 39401

HUD has symbiology which is restricted. Countermeasures deployed during AMRAAM evasion may also need to be revealed. The flypast was enough of a an insult. Paki ******s have a wildly varying story. India's version has been consistent from Day 1.

 

[ezsasa]

The odds are stacked against use, but I have an idea. Let’s start a campaign to see if we can persuade India to release the HUD footage of Avenger1 and Avenger2 during the F-16 engagement. Any information India feels may be sensitive may be blacked out. This would finally put Pakistani conspiracies to rest, because apparently the Air Force Day flyover meant nothing to them. I think if India released the HUD footage it would be a major embarrassment to Pakistan and ISPR, it might make them think twice before engaging in false conspiracies.

Moreover, it would be interesting for us fanboys. I for one am fascinated with the F-16 vs SU-30 engagement/Balakat. I don’t think it’s impossible, since the United States, France, Greece, Russia, Turkey and many other countries have shared real combat HUD footage. If anyone has contacts in the India Air Force let’s see if we can persuade someone to release something. Let’s start with the official Twitter account of the Indian Air Force.

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author



The following is from Cybersurg (YouTube ). Not sure I believe it’s an F-16, it could be anything including the Mig-21 wreckage but here it is:

View attachment 39401

How will HUD image of SU-30 help, they were 20-30 km(or more) away from F-16?

this was my understanding, others can correct me if I am wrong..

 

[Aaj ka hero]

How will HUD image of SU-30 help, they were 20-30 km(or more) away from F-16?

this was my understanding, others can correct me if I am wrong..

They tried to hit SU-30 from d-max according to previous chief how it can say su-30 mki was drowned.
The biggest thing is their doosra banda thing.
I tell you all.... they are playing in our hands and that's really interesting for us not for them.
The jokers themselves will release something in near future or in 20 years, that's in their nature.

 

[Neptune]

How will HUD image of SU-30 help, they were 20-30 km(or more) away from F-16?

this was my understanding, others can correct me if I am wrong..

You don’t understand. Clearly no HUD will physically show an F-16 from such distances. The HUD will, however, show F-16s being detected/locked onto. It will then show that no SU-30 was shot down. Hard to claim an SU-30 kill when HUD is released where the SU-30 engaged F-16s and then landed safely.

HUD has symbiology which is restricted.

Nothing secret about it, many countries have released real combat HUD footage. If India did not want to reveal, for example, what distance the SU-30 locks on to F-16 and such then they can always black out and censor that information.

Countermeasures deployed during AMRAAM evasion may also need to be revealed.

A HUD won’t show countermeasures, let alone reveal anything about how SU-30 counter measures/jammers work. In terms of evasive maneuvers, there is nothing special to hide. Once an aircraft turns away from a missile threat that missile will have a lower hit probability due to range and AMRAAMS arnt effective at engaging maneuverable targets.

The flypast was enough of a an insult. Paki ******s have a wildly varying story. India's version has been consistent from Day 1.

Although I believe 100% the SU-30 during the flyover was indeed Avenger1, the Pakistanis don’t. There is no hard proof it was the actual aircraft during the combat. Once HUD footage is released of the SU-30 showing F-16 being tracked, showing radar warning receivers blaring and showing the SU-30 landing safely the Pakistanis would be humiliated. Part of this is for my own curiosity.

It’s a long shot but interesting.

 

[vampyrbladez]

You don’t understand. Clearly no HUD will physically show an F-16 from such distances. The HUD will, however, show F-16s being detected/locked onto. It will then show that no SU-30 was shot down. Hard to claim an SU-30 kill when HUD is released where the SU-30 engaged F-16s and then landed safely.









Nothing secret about it, many countries have released real combat HUD footage. If India did not want to reveal, for example, what distance the SU-30 locks on to F-16 and such then they can always black out and censor that information.








A HUD won’t show countermeasures, let alone reveal anything about how SU-30 counter measures/jammers work. In terms of evasive maneuvers, there is nothing special to hide. Once an aircraft turns away from a missile threat that missile will have a lower hit probability due to range and AMRAAMS arnt effective at engaging maneuverable targets.







Although I believe 100% the SU-30 during the flyover was indeed Avenger1, the Pakistanis don’t. There is no hard proof it was the actual aircraft during the combat. Once HUD footage is released of the SU-30 showing F-16 being tracked, showing radar warning receivers blaring and showing the SU-30 landing safely the Pakistanis would be humiliated. Part of this is for my own curiosity.

It’s a long shot but interesting.

1. HUD symbology for MKI model is indigenous due to localization and thus is possibly classified. It's probably in English and will reveal countermeasures taken with regard to the Israeli jammer pods used.

2. The Paki ******s engaged from 45 km within PoK and used the maximum range of 105 km for the AIM 120 C5. R 77E has 80 km range. Thus missile lock is improbable. What you would get is essentially HUD TV video of pilots maneuvering and deploying countermeasures to evade AMRAAMs.

3. India couldn't hide a helicopter being taken down by friendly fire in fog of war and you expect an MKI to be hidden! That was during peak election season! Opposition deep state would have leaked it like they did during the French deal and Govt. would have been finished!

Our version has been consistent since Day 1. Burden of proof is on Paki ******s. That flypast with the particular call sign was the best fuck you to the Paki's inferiority complex!

 

[Neptune]

1. HUD symbology for MKI model is indigenous due to localization and thus is possibly classified. It's probably in English and will reveal countermeasures taken with regard to the Israeli jammer pods used.

All HUD is practically the same, there is nothing classified about how a HUD functions and if there was that could be censored. There is open sources explaining how certain HUDs function. A HUD can not show how counter measures work. Let me say that again. A HUD can not reveal in any way shape or form how a jammer functions.


Even footage of Rafale HUD dueling with F-22 exists and both Pakistani and Indian pilots have flown in variants on their enemies aircraft.



Many more like this as well:

2. The Paki ******s engaged from 45 km within PoK and used the maximum range of 105 km for the AIM 120 C5. R 77E has 80 km range. Thus missile lock is improbable. What you would get is essentially HUD TV video of pilots maneuvering and deploying countermeasures to evade AMRAAMs.

No such thing as missile lock in the sense that you think. There is however, a weapons lock. It does not matter what range or type of missiles the SU-30MKI carries, the weapons lock will remain the same. The SU-30 has a maximum tracking range of 400km, weapons lock probably around 120-200km depending on RCS.

In other words the SU-30 locked on to those F-16 well beyond 80kms, but yes, the last part you said is accurate. The SU-30 would basically be maneuvering but it would nevertheless, be more proof no SU-30 got shot down.

3. India couldn't hide a helicopter being taken down by friendly fire in fog of war and you expect an MKI to be hidden! That was during peak election season! Opposition deep state would have leaked it like they did during the French deal and Govt. would have been finished!

Our version has been consistent since Day 1. Burden of proof is on Paki ******s. That flypast with the particular call sign was the best fuck you to the Paki's inferiority complex!

I am well aware that no SU-30 was shot down. I was one of the first people that pointed out it’s impossible to hid something like that. Many times I cited the MI-17 wreckage as proof it would be impossible to hid an aircraft going down and I cited lack of Pakistan evidence and their lying and inconsistent stories.

That is not the topic right now. It would be interesting to get HUD footage nevertheless.

 

[Narasimh]

All HUD is practically the same, there is nothing classified about how a HUD functions and if there was that could be censored. There is open sources explaining how certain HUDs function. A HUD can not show how counter measures work. Let me say that again. A HUD can not reveal in any way shape or form how a jammer functions.


Even footage of Rafale HUD dueling with F-22 exists and both Pakistani and Indian pilots have flown in variants on their enemies aircraft.



Many more like this as well:










No such thing as missile lock in the sense that you think. There is however, a weapons lock. It does not matter what range or type of missiles the SU-30MKI carries, the weapons lock will remain the same. The SU-30 has a maximum tracking range of 400km, weapons lock probably around 120-200km depending on RCS.

In other words the SU-30 locked on to those F-16 well beyond 80kms, but yes, the last part you said is accurate. The SU-30 would basically be maneuvering but it would nevertheless, be more proof no SU-30 got shot down.










I am well aware that no SU-30 was shot down. I was one of the first people that pointed out it’s impossible to hid something like that. Many times I cited the MI-17 wreckage as proof it would be impossible to hid an aircraft going down and I cited lack of Pakistan evidence and their lying and inconsistent stories.

That is not the topic right now. It would be interesting to get HUD footage nevertheless.

Do whatever, even if there was a Photo/video evidence of F-16 wreck, Porks would still not believe or spin some story around it. Instead of banging our heads into making them see, it's better to increase our strategic capability giving no heed to their drumbeat on tactical nitty gritty and lies. That's all they can manage to hold on to have some national pride.

IAF will continue to pursue the strategic capabilities.

 

[Compersion]

strong believe it is time to implement a no-fly zone over PoK.

It is absurd to see (i) commercial flights of airlines that do huge business in Bharat going above the (disputed) physical territory of PoK under the temporary occupation of pakis and (perhaps) such airlines making payment to pakis (ii) denying Afghanistan income by transporting such flights over their territory and instead coming through Pok into and out of Pakis areas (iii) (MOST IMPORTANTLY) the non-commercial flights and aircraft be it of paki air force and armed forces and otherwise to be disturbed and non operational over PoK - who has given them the unfettered right to be doing such?

no-fly zone ought to target and (ideally) shoot down within the PoK area of such Paki non-commercial flights (Paki armed forces be it drones to aircraft and helicopters) and dominate that airspace of PoK. I would start with those pigs that shot down Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman VrC and target and mark each one. Every time an aircraft of Pakis enters PoK we ought to lock them and signal each time such an event from now onwards. The airspace over and above PoK must not have any paki and any sign of pakis. the use and support of the paki armed forces (which its air assets play a role) are also in abetment and full commitment to carry out terrorism and terrorist attack into Bharat. Jai Hind

 

[Neptune]

strong believe it is time to implement a no-fly zone over PoK.

It is absurd to see (i) commercial flights of airlines that do huge business in Bharat going above the (disputed) physical territory of PoK under the temporary occupation of pakis and (perhaps) such airlines making payment to pakis (ii) denying Afghanistan income by transporting such flights over their territory and instead coming through Pok into and out of Pakis areas (iii) (MOST IMPORTANTLY) the non-commercial flights and aircraft be it of paki air force and armed forces and otherwise to be disturbed and non operational over PoK - who has given them the unfettered right to be doing such?

no-fly zone ought to target and (ideally) shoot down within the PoK area of such Paki non-commercial flights (Paki armed forces be it drones to aircraft and helicopters) and dominate that airspace of PoK. I would start with those pigs that shot down Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman VrC and target and mark each one. Every time an aircraft of Pakis enters PoK we ought to lock them and signal each time such an event from now onwards. The airspace over and above PoK must not have any paki and any sign of pakis. the use and support of the paki armed forces (which its air assets play a role) are also in abetment and full commitment to carry out terrorism and terrorist attack into Bharat. Jai Hind

And you think Pakistan would not retaliate? This would never work unless India planned a full scale war again Pakistan where they bombed every airfield and neutralized Pakistan’s ability to retaliate. In any case even if India launched such attack at least some Indian aircraft likely would get shot-down unless the Pakistanis turned out to be like the Arabs versus Israelis.

The other scenario is to ambush Pakistani aircraft, similar to what Pakistan did on February 27th. India has the ability to easily shoot down Pakistani aircraft if it so chose to, even multiple aircraft if it planned out the mission well and used all its assets to the fullest. The problem lies afterwards. Unless India planned on flying 24 hour combat air patrols (CAPs) in large numbers the Pakistanis would retaliate. There is no way India can sustain 24 hour CAPs in large enough numbers to keep Pakistan from retaliating. Even if somehow India transferred additional squadrons to bolster forward air bases the Pakistanis are crazy enough to still attack. They have shown how audaciously bold they can be on the 27th. They have also demonstrated they can put a plan together very quickly and execute it; moreover they are not afraid of using propaganda in order to humiliate India and hide their own losses.

In other words yes India can get revenge but then it turns into a slug fest.

 

[vampyrbladez]

All HUD is practically the same, there is nothing classified about how a HUD functions and if there was that could be censored. There is open sources explaining how certain HUDs function. A HUD can not show how counter measures work. Let me say that again. A HUD can not reveal in any way shape or form how a jammer functions.


Even footage of Rafale HUD dueling with F-22 exists and both Pakistani and Indian pilots have flown in variants on their enemies aircraft.



Many more like this as well:










No such thing as missile lock in the sense that you think. There is however, a weapons lock. It does not matter what range or type of missiles the SU-30MKI carries, the weapons lock will remain the same. The SU-30 has a maximum tracking range of 400km, weapons lock probably around 120-200km depending on RCS.

In other words the SU-30 locked on to those F-16 well beyond 80kms, but yes, the last part you said is accurate. The SU-30 would basically be maneuvering but it would nevertheless, be more proof no SU-30 got shot down.










I am well aware that no SU-30 was shot down. I was one of the first people that pointed out it’s impossible to hid something like that. Many times I cited the MI-17 wreckage as proof it would be impossible to hid an aircraft going down and I cited lack of Pakistan evidence and their lying and inconsistent stories.

That is not the topic right now. It would be interesting to get HUD footage nevertheless.

1. HUD for certain aircraft is classified like the F 35. If you localize the aircraft you are under secrecy clause of OEMs and thus have to bide by them. The symbology and icons are also designed by India based on our specifications. Thus it makes no sense to reveal them.

2. During international exercises, N011 BARS frequencies are not used to their full capability. How can it be revealed to the media under combat conditions?

3. Like I said before, the Paki ******s have an inconsistent story. The best that could be released is right here in this article. I suggest you go through it!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepri...nandan-shot-down-a-pakistani-f-16/278752/amp/

 

[Craigs]

All HUD is practically the same, there is nothing classified about how a HUD functions and if there was that could be censored. There is open sources explaining how certain HUDs function. A HUD can not show how counter measures work. Let me say that again. A HUD can not reveal in any way shape or form how a jammer functions.


Even footage of Rafale HUD dueling with F-22 exists and both Pakistani and Indian pilots have flown in variants on their enemies aircraft.



Many more like this as well:










No such thing as missile lock in the sense that you think. There is however, a weapons lock. It does not matter what range or type of missiles the SU-30MKI carries, the weapons lock will remain the same. The SU-30 has a maximum tracking range of 400km, weapons lock probably around 120-200km depending on RCS.

In other words the SU-30 locked on to those F-16 well beyond 80kms, but yes, the last part you said is accurate. The SU-30 would basically be maneuvering but it would nevertheless, be more proof no SU-30 got shot down.










I am well aware that no SU-30 was shot down. I was one of the first people that pointed out it’s impossible to hid something like that. Many times I cited the MI-17 wreckage as proof it would be impossible to hid an aircraft going down and I cited lack of Pakistan evidence and their lying and inconsistent stories.

That is not the topic right now. It would be interesting to get HUD footage nevertheless.

Let Pakistan release HUD footage of them taking down a Su30 first.

 

[Neptune]

Let Pakistan release HUD footage of them taking down a Su30 first.

They have nothing to release because nothing got shot down.

1. HUD for certain aircraft is classified like the F 35. If you localize the aircraft you are under secrecy clause of OEMs and thus have to bide by them. The symbology and icons are also designed by India based on our specifications. Thus it makes no sense to reveal them.

2. During international exercises, N011 BARS frequencies are not used to their full capability. How can it be revealed to the media under combat conditions?

3. Like I said before, the Paki ******s have an inconsistent story. The best that could be released is right here in this article. I suggest you go through it!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepri...nandan-shot-down-a-pakistani-f-16/278752/amp/

1. F-35 HUD is not classified, there is video from F-35 HUD. Like I stated before India could always blackout what it did not want the public to see if it ever released HUD.


2. Pakistan has lied about everything, contradicted itself on almost every statement and provided zero proof for any of its claims and no one has been able to corroborate any of Pakistan’s wild claims. I know all about it. Their entire existence is a lie. Every war and conflict Pakistan has been involved in has shown Pakistan to lie, denied and hid casualties.


3. This is not about disproving the supposed SU-30 kill per se because everyone knows it didn’t happen—everyone besides brainwashed Pakistanis. It’s about embarrassing Pakistan. I know India usually ignores most of Pakistan’s propaganda but revealing such content would be a sort of psychological warfare. Most countries conduct some form of psychological warfare, in this case if India were to reveal such evidence and very publicly it would do the following:


1. It would Embarrass Pakistan, the ISI and the ISP.

2. It would cause people to lose faith in the government.

3. it would cause people to question other Pakistani lies.

4. It would lower morale among the Pakistani armed forces. Low moral forces do not want to fight.

5. It would cause people to question the Pakistani F-16 shoot down narrative.

6. It may cause Pakistan to think twice before making another lie.

7. It would once and for all disprove the SU-30 kill conspiracy to some gullible people.

8. It would be satisfying to us.