IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

[FGFAPilot1]

Guys , if someone will , I don't understand the concept of callsigns fully. I mean I know each plane has its own callsign, but what prevents someone from taking any callsign and slapping it onto any other plane of same model?i It's just curiosity, so that I could bash any porki , next time he tries to use this logic as a counter.

I have the same question, I don't understand how the call signs and names work.

 

[Lancer]

Does anyone know what the best/highest range missile is that we can put on the Navy's MiG-29K's? Will the Astra be integrated on to them?

I was recently thinking about how we would match up in a sudden conflict w/ Pak due to the numbers shortfall, then remembered that in wartime - those 50 odd MiG's from the Navy would also likely be involved. If we could give them some sort of BVR that outranges the AMRAAM, we likely have more than enough to really clobber the Pakis from the get-go.

 

[aarav]

Oh man it's fun watching them do it lol

Isn't it ?


Dude get me the link if you have.. I was watching a TV debate once on News 18 I guess With Devgn anchor. There tarek Fateh ( I know he is not be trusted ) said that during 65/71 porki radio were announcing that Allah has sent some farishtey who are catching the bombs thrown at them by kaafir Hindus and has made their forces invincible. :hippo:

I thought it's a joke but on the other end Some cheema guy started defending it saying Allah do send farishtey to help those who have Iman in Allah .

I know right lmao

Paki propaganda know no bounds ,you must also heard 5 sec 5 plane claim of paki in 65 war ,don't too much ponder about paki claims,they are mumblings of delirious person as credible as someone who has eaten a dhatura (devil's weed)

 

[aarav]

Does anyone know what the best/highest range missile is that we can put on the Navy's MiG-29K's? Will the Astra be integrated on to them?

I was recently thinking about how we would match up in a sudden conflict w/ Pak due to the numbers shortfall, then remembered that in wartime - those 50 odd MiG's from the Navy would also likely be involved. If we could give them some sort of BVR that outranges the AMRAAM, we likely have more than enough to really clobber the Pakis from the get-go.

We have R27 and ASTRa most probably will be integrated in near future

 

[Neptune]

Guys , if someone will , I don't understand the concept of callsigns fully. I mean I know each plane has its own callsign, but what prevents someone from taking any callsign and slapping it onto any other plane of same model?i It's just curiosity, so that I could bash any porki , next time he tries to use this logic as a counter.

There is no rules with callsign and every country and squadron generally has its own rules apart from your squadron mates assigning you a callsign based on totally random circumstances. I do at least know that in the US that for real missions/combat pilots get temporary callsigns.

Around where I live there were a pair of two F-15s launches to intercept a hijacked/stolen airliner a few years ago. The two pilots vectored to intercept the aircraft were ‘Rocky1’ and ‘Rocky2’. It makes it easier for ground controllers and everyone else.

In the same token the SU-30s India launched were apparently ‘Avenger1’ and ‘Avenger2’.

 

[Neptune]

Paki propaganda busted again Captain Luthra awarded on IAF dayView attachment 39203
Paki propaganda claims and it getting busted is a given first no F16 used only JF blunders ,busted,3 pilots ,busted,2 pilots busted,made a mazaar in memory of pilot who shall not be named,fake claim of su30 and then claims about capt luthra ,as said before paki propaganda warfare needs to be countered especially if paki starting claiming the moon that is Su30 ,I think like paki pilots they are to stunned that their silver bullet AMRAAMs is a dud in front of SU30 which has such a large RCS then what will happen against Rafael,tejas with 0.5 m RCS

So where did the rumors of Capt. Luthra being shot down originate from? Is it officially from Pakistan/Goofool? Or is it from the PDF conspiracy circus?

 

[shankyz]

So where did the rumors of Capt. Luthra being shot down originate from? Is it officially from Pakistan/Goofool? Or is it from the PDF conspiracy circus?

From the a$$ of porkchop Sayaaf on this forum.

PA, on the other hand, should be renamed as Propaganda Army.

 

[Neptune]

A member by the name of Black Archer on another forum posted this. I think he may be a member here:


“Wing Commander K.P. Singh and Squadron Leader Parshuram were the 2 Su-30MKI pilots who basically held off 8 F-16s of the PAF and dodged 5 AMRAAM missiles that were fired at them.”


I know who Singh is but who is Parshuram? Did he get awarded as well during the ceremony? Is there a picture of him? I’m trying to compile some information but it’s scares. It would be nice to know the tail number of the SU-30mkis, it was too hard to tell from the fly over though. The Indian Air Force doesn’t whore out it’s pilots like Pakistan so very little is known about the details and obviously Pakistanis are pathological liars so their claims are good as raw sewage.


I read many of the Pakistani comments on RT and now they are raging against Russia some still believe they shot down Israeli pilots in an SU-30 and Lockheed did an F-16 inventory. Some people can’t be helped. They also believe because there is AMRAAM wreckage it must indicate an SU-30 was shot down. We are dealing with some very stupid people.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I would say this...

The region where this dogfight happened is a belt of region where i am from.

My relatives live there.If a Sukhoi was shot down and 2 pilot came out in parachute i would have definitely known.

In these not so advanced regions these things spread like fire.

I still remember how my grand father told me a tale of indian jet being shot down in 65 war and crashing in the same region. They helped the pilot.

So for me i only laugh like the woman controller officer of the iaf when told the pakis think a sukhoi has been shot.

So where did the sukhoi go..it didnt crash in pok..it didnt crash in the region right next to it.

Maybe it went to rescue Iron Man and Black Widow in some Avenger dimension world.

Pakis are such pathlogical liars..I really have no faith in their integrity.

 

[Neptune]

I would say this...

The region where this dogfight happened is a belt of region where i am from.

My relatives live there.If a Sukhoi was shot down and 2 pilot came out in parachute i would have definitely known.

In these not so advanced regions these things spread like fire.

I still remember how my grand father told me a tale of indian jet being shot down in 65 war and crashing in the same region. They helped the pilot.

So for me i only laugh like the woman controller officer of the iaf when told the pakis think a sukhoi has been shot.

So where did the sukhoi go..it didnt crash in pok..it didnt crash in the region right next to it.

Maybe it went to rescue Iron Man and Black Widow in some Avenger dimension world.

Pakis are such pathlogical liars..I really have no faith in their integrity.

This is the awkward dilemma Pakistan and it’s shills face. An SU-30 can not just crash without anyone witnessing it or recording it in an age of smart phones and even civilian drones. The Pakistanis themselves could have come out with concrete proof in radar, HUD, voice recording or satellite images but as usual none of their miraculous shoot downs can be verified with proof.


What is interesting is Pakistanis fervently denying that the Avenger1 and Avenger2 SU-30MKIs doing the fly-over during Air Force Day were the actually ones used in combat. They have, however have zero proof that Pakistan ever shot Avenger1 down but then contend that Avenger1 seen during the ceremony was not the real one even though the Pakistanis probably don’t even know the tail number. Same applies for Pakistanis online, they simply can’t refute or disprove the fact that the SU-30MKIs and pilots seen during Air Force Day were not the real ones in combat during February aerial engagements.



Another thought, India has kept mostly quiet about the engagement, here and there someone would do an interview but India never went out of its way to disprove every Pakistani lie. The pilots and aircraft of Avenger1 and Avenger2 were at Air Force Day being awarded, I don’t think it was directly related to disproving Pakistan since India has a habit of ignoring Pakistani propaganda anyways. In other words Pakistani propaganda seems to have been busted by coincidence without even India trying, the Indians were doing what they do every year. This adds to the credibility of India’s claim.

It’s also interesting to note that India has not made any crazy claims and unlike Pakistani claims Indian claims have been consistent, and while it’s impressive two SU-30mkis took on at least 8 F-16s aided by AWACS, it also is not too extraordinary. The Pakistanis were just not very disciplined pilots and the Indian pilots simply out-skilled the Pakistanis and repelled their incursion. The Indian pilots were awarded during Air For Day for holding off a numerically superior force. Why can Pakistan not accept this? Indians could have also easily made ridiculous claims but chose not to. The fact is if Pakistan downed Avenger1 then what stoped then from taking out Avenger2? Think about it, after Avenger1 the second SU-30MKI would be a sitting duck. The F-16s could have attacked from multiple directions and altitudes and fired a volley of missiles but somehow they could not take down a second SU-30MKI. Their stories are just stupid especially since they claim they have better pilots and aircraft, if so it’s amazing they could not shoot down Avenger2 and by amazing I mean they were incompetent.


Everything point to Pakistan trying to avoid the SU-30MKI, they purposely chose to attack as far away from the 15th and 221st SU-30 squadron as possible. Forgot about them shooting down one SU-30 since they fled once Indian aircraft launched, even more strange is as I previously mentioned, why did Pakistan not attack and shoot down the second SU-30 as well?

 

[Neptune]

Posted by BlackArcherRedux:

Pakistanis still worshipping fake monuments with miniature plastic wings. Pakistani claim SU-30 during Air Force Day was fake.....but well they got this pill of crap:

 

[ashdoc]

https://www.deccanherald.com/nation...-changer-for-the-indian-air-force-767007.html

According to this article IAF has to deploy at least 2 sukhois to counter each f 16 . That means the f 16 is superior to the sukhoi . We better get more rafales pronto.

Of course , that does not mean that I disagree with the narrative that one f 16 got shot down , but we definitely need more rafales .

 

[vampyrbladez]

https://www.deccanherald.com/nation...-changer-for-the-indian-air-force-767007.html

According to this article IAF has to deploy at least 2 sukhois to counter each f 16 . That means the f 16 is superior to the sukhoi . We better get more rafales pronto.

Of course , that does not mean that I disagree with the narrative that one f 16 got shot down , but we definitely need more rafales .

1.

2. Another 36 may be ordered early next year!

 

[Knowitall]

https://www.deccanherald.com/nation...-changer-for-the-indian-air-force-767007.html

According to this article IAF has to deploy at least 2 sukhois to counter each f 16 . That means the f 16 is superior to the sukhoi . We better get more rafales pronto.

Of course , that does not mean that I disagree with the narrative that one f 16 got shot down , but we definitely need more rafales .

If you are now going to believe in what Deccan herald has to say no one can help you. 2 sukhoi for an f-16 bhaiya kaunsa mal lete hai ye log. If the air battle had shown anything more than 5 f-16 could not take down one of our sukhoi aircraft. An absolute piece of crap article.

 

[Knowitall]

An excellent analysis written by devine heretic in the sf forum. A must read for everyone he has both inside information and good knowledge in this subject. His posts are worth reading



The entire discussion over the past few pages has centred on the IAF's actions and its implication for India. Few have tried to analyse from PA+PAF's perspective on the implications of this skirmish on their overall military doctrines and even ORBAT. I'm writing from PA's perspective because PAF is expected to act in a supporting role to PA during major combat operations, and PA's ability to conduct ground operations will be heavily dependent upon PAF's performance. Also Rawalpindi GHQ rules above PAF HQ. Note that the following requirements are in addition to PAF's own duties of defending PAF bases

PA's ground operations doctrine in major combat is based on asymetric combat. To explain in simple terms, Nepoleon's stratagem: Use weak numerically inferior forces for defensive operations against stronger fighting forces while concentrating strong forces against enemy weak forces. PA intends to use small light Anti tank infantry battalions to take on own Armored brigades and light anti tank focused brigdes against armored divisons, with the intention of holding the enemy for 48-72 hours till own forces momentum is broken. The heavy forces, armor and mech forces are to be kept in concentrated reserve with the intention of striking weak own forces in any sector or counter attack on own forces in the event of IA's breakthrough.Textbook examples include FieldMarshal Walther Model's mobile battlegroups for counter attack while maintaining light forces along the front as a screen to hold and ground down Soviet offensives, if possible. PA envisons operations of similar nature against IA.

Now that doctrine requires that PAF be able to keep reasonable control of the air over PA strong forces' assembly/launch areas and key logistics lines. Without it massed PA armor forces will be slaughtered wholesale by IAF strikes. In fact without securing adequate air superiority PA will never be able to even concentrate adequate strong forces to make any effective challenge to any reasonble tier 1 IA formation. And PA knows this. PA's desperate situation in Longewala is an apt example of what happens when enemy has unchallenged air superiority over you.

Even for the defensive operations, PAF is required to contest the airspace effectively so that IA doesn't utilize IAF's CAS aircraft to render smaller challenging forces combat ineffective through relentless and uncontested CAS strikes. Example would be the utter destruction of PA defensive forces at several key points in then East Pakistan by air ops. the positions of defending PA troops were hammered hard enough that PA forces holding them simply shattered and were rendered combat ineffective before IA began a serious challenge in the area. As such on several occasions met forces that were already degraded by air strikes in the days before.

After the skrimish/engagement of PAF with IAF, PA's ability to conduct both defensive war while maintaining adequate strong forces for offensive/counteroffensive is severely suspect. The going theory within PA HQ was that PAF frontline aircrafts with BVRs can engage a numerically superior in a roughly equal battle, thereby tying down IAF from executing large scale CAS operations. The fact that PAF's premium fighter could not hold its own will no doubt have caused concern among ground war theorists in PA. Even with Mobile SAM support, which is in any case limited in number, PA formations are now under heightened state of threat given PAF will have to maintain most of its frontline fleet in contesting/defending against IAF assets while IAF can spare premium multirole Aircraft to Ground attack aircraft for terrestial force destruction. Under such circumstances asymetric combat doctrines cannot be safely applied without risking forces to utter destruction.

This is one of the reason PA was unwilling to engage in a major skirmish after India abrogated statehood of J&K on Aug 5. PA generals know in any such conflict even PAF's tier 1 aircrafts can and will be tied up defending against IAF's tier 2 assets, leaving precious little to support PA formations engaged in skirmish.

To those who believe su-30mki is worse than the f-16. I will repeat again su-30mki are still way ahead of anything pakistan can throw at it.

 

[Neptune]

https://www.deccanherald.com/nation...-changer-for-the-indian-air-force-767007.html

According to this article IAF has to deploy at least 2 sukhois to counter each f 16 . That means the f 16 is superior to the sukhoi . We better get more rafales pronto.

Of course , that does not mean that I disagree with the narrative that one f 16 got shot down , but we definitely need more rafales .

This is just standard practice of achieving air dominance. No sane strategist wants to have a 1:1 ratio but 2:1 or 3:1 advantage. The US and NATO swarmed the Iraqi Air Force too. The Pakistanis achieved numerical superiority over India hence they kept the SU-30MKIs and a few other aircraft at bay. The F-16 does have better radar. The MKI is showing its age but the numerical disparity India faced during the 27th was not something a few Rafales would remedy. Replace the SU-30 with Rafale and India would have faced the same problems. Not enough aircraft in the area to properly counter Pakistan.

 

[vampyrbladez]

This is just standard practice of achieving air dominance. No sane strategist wants to have a 1:1 ratio but 2:1 or 3:1 advantage. The US and NATO swarmed the Iraqi Air Force too. The Pakistanis achieved numerical superiority over India hence they kept the SU-30MKIs and a few other aircraft at bay. The F-16 does have better radar. The MKI is showing its age but the numerical disparity India faced during the 27th was not something a few Rafales would remedy. Replace the SU-30 with Rafale and India would have faced the same problems. Not enough aircraft in the area to properly counter Pakistan.

Have you seen the N011 BARS's search range of 400 KM and TWS of 120~200 KM? It's TWS range is equal to the Rafale's maximum radar range of 124 mi ~ 200 KM!

 

[mayfair]

According to this article IAF has to deploy at least 2 sukhois to counter each f 16 . That means the f 16 is superior to the sukhoi . We better get more rafales pronto.

Looks like Avengers missed that memo on Feb 27th, when they held off 4x their number.

Perhaps author should work on his mathematics.

 

[Compersion]

dont want take it away from the discourse but why give the pakis chance to even talk such things.

its like pakis having PoK right now. why given them a chance. i read somewhere it is our status and ability at this momenet (i.e. we dont have the x y z hence it was good the LoC was there in 1948)

but we have had and done a lot after that. why are we giving the pakis a chance to be pakis. we should have blown those planes of pakis out of the sky on Feb 28 and because (most) of them survied they are boasting. i am certain that each one has been earmarked and also the way they take pride that the israel system didn't hit them at all but in fact took down one of our helicopters (after it becoming spice(y) the day before) at all has been noted.

 

[Flying Dagger]

dont want take it away from the discourse but why give the pakis chance to even talk such things.

its like pakis having PoK right now. why given them a chance. i read somewhere it is our status and ability at this momenet (i.e. we dont have the x y z hence it was good the LoC was there in 1948)

but we have had and done a lot after that. why are we giving the pakis a chance to be pakis. we should have blown those planes of pakis out of the sky on Feb 28 and because (most) of them survied they are boasting. i am certain that each one has been earmarked and also the way they take pride that the israel system didn't hit them at all but in fact took down one of our helicopters (after it becoming spice(y) the day before) at all has been noted.

It isn't video game that's why. We seriously lack numbers and most of our upgrade and capacity building programme are behind schedule.

Though I agree we have a week political will and national will to teach them a final lesson which has resulted in this state .