Gun control laws in India.

[Razor]

@Project Dharma @pmaitra @aditya10r @Krusty @captscooby81 @raja696 @Mikesingh @mayfair @mendosa @Bharat Ek Khoj @Ancient Indian @ezsasa and all

Please post your thoughts on the issue.

I'm undecided wrt to India tbh.

It would be great to have firearms at home and to make and sell firearms ($$ cha-ching )
But examples around the globe are not very encouraging.

Examples of countries with high firearms to population ratio: the USA, Yemen (war-torn ), Switzerland (OK), Israel (OK), Serbia, Bosnia and nearby areas (war-torn), paki highlands (tribal)

Also: Are firearms the only way of ensuring citizen safety?
I'd also include effective policing and potent armed security services to the list.

 

[captscooby81]

Thambi (brother) we cannot open up firearm license in this mad country ..Half the population has no regards for law when corruption is so deep in a society like ours giving firearms for citizen safety will lead to more law and order problems then what we have now ..Remember there is a huge illegal arms business in Up,Bihar and WB states and we seen the jungle raj ..Plus the US Gun shooting incidents don t give me any confidence to open up firearms here in india with this new generation of disillusioned youth who has no clue with life and getting arrogant day by day ..Gun s will be used for settling classroom fights to even corporate debates someone may bump his HR because he or she given him 5 % hike when he is expecting 30 % ..We are very emotional society we use emotion to do things than logical ...

The best way for safety of civilians is the drastic changes in the indian police act and bring some urgent need of funds and manpower into it with better checks and balances this can provide some sort of safety to citizens ..

Have you seen the latest incident where a newly married couple from chennai on road trip on bike was shot and the husband got killed on the spot and the wife injured in UP ...And also another incident where a famous biker girl had her bike stolen on gun point some where in Noida ...Just for bikes people use guns like this image the kind of scenario for other emotional things .

@Mangal your points are valid ..But even if we take 50 % as hindu population of the country thats nothing less than 650 million people and now guess the opposite site which already gets into rioting and murders without guns with legalisation of guns they will be able to use illegal firearms much more potent when we will be struggling to get license and use legal ones paying huge amount ..

Switzerland has amazing gun policy every citizen can own fire arms but there was never any US type gun shootings in that country ...

@Project Dharma @pmaitra @aditya10r @Krusty @captscooby81 @raja696 @Mikesingh @mayfair @mendosa @Bharat Ek Khoj @Ancient Indian @ezsasa and all

Please post your thoughts on the issue.

I'm undecided wrt to India tbh.

It would be great to have firearms at home and to make and sell firearms ($$ cha-ching )
But examples around the globe are not very encouraging.

Examples of countries with high firearms to population ratio: the USA, Yemen (war-torn ), Switzerland (OK), Israel (OK), Serbia, Bosnia and nearby areas (war-torn), paki highlands (tribal)

Also: Are firearms the only way of ensuring citizen safety?
I'd also include effective policing and potent armed security services to the list.

 

[Suryavanshi]

US has shit like this on sale

Spoiler

And what do we have

Spoiler

Not even one automatic rifle
BRUH come on

 

[Razor]

US has shit like this on sale

Spoiler

And what do we have

Spoiler

Not even one automatic rifle
BRUH come on

Well, OFB has a monopoly on selling over-priced firearms in India.

 

[Bharat Ek Khoj]

@captscooby81 covered most of the points.

I'm against gun culture. Holding gun won't give you expertise to shoot the intruder or whatever.
Making gun bearing legal means,
- Investment in gun
- Investment in how to shoot
- After shooting investment in Lawyer
- No guarantee one will get justice after killing or get killed ( India is a marvelous country when it comes to justice, isn't it ? )

Also, checkout this,
Gun enthusiast shot by her own 4 years old son. Irony !!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-handgun-d-left-truck-WON-T-prosecuted.html

 

[ezsasa]

@Project Dharma @pmaitra @aditya10r @Krusty @captscooby81 @raja696 @Mikesingh @mayfair @mendosa @Bharat Ek Khoj @Ancient Indian @ezsasa and all

Please post your thoughts on the issue.

I'm undecided wrt to India tbh.

It would be great to have firearms at home and to make and sell firearms ($$ cha-ching )
But examples around the globe are not very encouraging.

Examples of countries with high firearms to population ratio: the USA, Yemen (war-torn ), Switzerland (OK), Israel (OK), Serbia, Bosnia and nearby areas (war-torn), paki highlands (tribal)

Also: Are firearms the only way of ensuring citizen safety?
I'd also include effective policing and potent armed security services to the list.

At this point in time law and order is not up to the mark in the country.

Even if law and order improves in the future, because of the population density it is not advisable to have guns freely available in the country.

Majority of internal conflicts we are seeing in the country are because of the population density(political, caste communal) , imagine introducing a dangerous variable like guns into the mix.

Having said this, if guns were freely available in India my collection would be

One AK variant
One SCAR
One tavor
One 50 cal
One glock variant
Two beretta pistol
Some nice scopes

To begin with...

 

[Razor]

Switzerland has amazing gun policy every citizen can own fire arms but there was never any US type gun shootings in that country ...

I wonder why that is so?
How did Switzerland manage that?

 

[sbm]

India has the second highest number of private weapons in the world (40m+). Most illegal of course. Swiss gun laws make a lot of sense - especially not licensing single-shot firearms and sporting firearms.

 

[Suryavanshi]

I wonder why that is so?
How did Switzerland manage that?

Sab kale dhan ka kamal he LOLWA

 

[Mangal]

Well the members here have expressed valid arguments. Even I was undecided about wether gun control is good or bad especially after what we see in US and the fate Pakistan is suffering. But we need to understand that gun control is relaxed in several other nations as well which are doing fairly well like France, Canada, Italy and Israel. Why ignore them? Why only take the bad examples? Democracy has not worked in many countries this does not mean democracy is bad. May be there is something wrong in the implementation of the laws in these countries.
Another point was raised about risk of guns being used in crimes. Well in most of the gun related crimes a Desi katta is used. In many cases AK is too used for firing and eleminating rivals. My point is criminals all ready have the tools they need. It's only office goers like you and me who are bound by laws.
Now one More thing I would like to tell the members here. It's my personal point of view. The Kashmir militancy and naxalite movement we're both at there peak in late 80's. In Kashmir Hindus were thrown out coz the local Muslims and milltants had automatic weapons. While the Hindus were timid (which is obvious when you don't even know how to use a knife). While in Bihar the citizens had firearms and they stopped sleeping in bedrooms at night. They slept at roof top. Piled up bricks and stones coz they knew naxalites can attack anytime and then they had GUNS (both legal and illegal). They unlike Kashmiri Hindus were not timid. Mind you they were scared but having a gun by their side they knew they stand a chance. The naxalite never managed to force the people into mass exodus. We need to learn from history. The future which I see I firmly believe we need our gun laws relaxed.

 

[Razor]

Sab kale dhan ka kamal he LOLWA

I wasn't wondering about how they acquired the weapons but how the Swiss prevent USA like situation in their country.

 

[Razor]

Well the members here have expressed valid arguments. Even I was undecided about wether gun control is good or bad especially after what we see in US and the fate Pakistan is suffering. But we need to understand that gun control is relaxed in several other nations as well which are doing fairly well like France, Canada, Italy and Israel. Why ignore them? Why only take the bad examples? Democracy has not worked in many countries this does not mean democracy is bad. May be there is something wrong in the implementation of the laws in these countries.
Another point was raised about risk of guns being used in crimes. Well in most of the gun related crimes a Desi katta is used. In many cases AK is too used for firing and eleminating rivals. My point is criminals all ready have the tools they need. It's only office goers like you and me who are bound by laws.
Now one More thing I would like to tell the members here. It's my personal point of view. The Kashmir militancy and naxalite movement we're both at there peak in late 80's. In Kashmir Hindus were thrown out coz the local Muslims and milltants had automatic weapons. While the Hindus were timid (which is obvious when you don't even know how to use a knife). While in Bihar the citizens had firearms and they stopped sleeping in bedrooms at night. They slept at roof top. Piled up bricks and stones coz they knew naxalites can attack anytime and then they had GUNS (both legal and illegal). They unlike Kashmiri Hindus were not timid. Mind you they were scared but having a gun by their side they knew they stand a chance. The naxalite never managed to force the people into mass exodus. We need to learn from history. The future which I see I firmly believe we need our gun laws relaxed.

In both situations the state apparatus for preventive policing failed its job.

Though I do agree, gun laws are quite strict (for law-abiding citizens) in India.

 

[Bharat Ek Khoj]

I wonder why that is so?
How did Switzerland manage that?

It seems bearing gun is total different thing ins Switzerland. Go thru answers.
https://www.quora.com/Law-What-does...its-pro-gunner-How-can-the-US-learn-from-that

 

[Suryavanshi]

I wasn't wondering about how they acquired the weapons but how the Swiss prevent USA like situation in their country.

The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works

http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/

 

[Bharat Ek Khoj]

several other nations as well which are doing fairly well like France, Canada, Italy and Israel.

They have one law for entire country. We have huge diversity where at few places khap works, at few places sharia works. And justice system is still a joke even in so called 'development' model Gujarat.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I don`t know about the rest, But government has to allow private players in mass ..

The quality has to be better and choice in design should get introduce, Let it be the same bore we are using ..

 

[Mangal]

I don`t know about the rest, But government has to allow private players in mass ..

The quality has to be better and choice in design should get introduce, Let it be the same bore we are using ..

The point is that it's easier on paper to get a gun than in reality. The laws should be relaxed concerning obtaining of license of at least semi automatic weapons. Though I don't see a reason for a law to work in one country and not in other. The laws prevailing today are taking away our freedom and rights. The thing is our thinking has been shaped in such a way that today we consider it normal to not to have weapons (automatic or semi-automatic) but that was not the case in our earlier generation. I came across this article related to 26/11 attacks. If citizens would have had guns may be a lot of lives could have been saved. Please read it here :
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/strict-indian-gun-law-aided-mumbai-terrorists-attack

 

[ezsasa]

The point is that it's easier on paper to get a gun than in reality. The laws should be relaxed concerning obtaining of license of at least semi automatic weapons. Though I don't see a reason for a law to work in one country and not in other. The laws prevailing today are taking away our freedom and rights. The thing is our thinking has been shaped in such a way that today we consider it normal to not to have weapons (automatic or semi-automatic) but that was not the case in our earlier generation. I came across this article related to 26/11 attacks. If citizens would have had guns may be a lot of lives could have been saved. Please read it here :
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/strict-indian-gun-law-aided-mumbai-terrorists-attack

This is a classic NRA (national rifle association of America) argument.

You have to consider that even in America, the concentration of guns would more in states with lesser population density. Their coasts where most of their population is denser have more stricter gun control laws.

In case of mumbai, after going thru violent gang wars of 80's and 90's, there is no way guns would be allowed into civilian hands.

 

[Mangal]

In case of mumbai, after going thru violent gang wars of 80's and 90's, there is no way guns would be allowed into civilian hands.

On the contrary I think that this argument only validates my point. The criminals had all the weapons be it guns, assault rifles or grenades at their disposal. It's only ordinary citizens like me and you who are not able to have a weapon of our choice because of (a) legally the procedure involved is too time taking, bureaucratic, corrupt and the weapon we are allowed to have is well " piece of costly trash" and (b) illegally we are too scared of the arms act. I came across this line which is a gist of what I am trying to say "Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.”

 

[ezsasa]

On the contrary I think that this argument only validates my point. The criminals had all the weapons be it guns, assault rifles or grenades at their disposal. It's only ordinary citizens like me and you who are not able to have a weapon of our choice because of (a) legally the procedure involved is too time taking, bureaucratic, corrupt and the weapon we are allowed to have is well " piece of costly trash" and (b) illegally we are too scared of the arms act. I came across this line which is a gist of what I am trying to say "Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.”

Let's break it down a bit, into urban India and rural india.

If someone is a farmer with large agricultural land, that person already has access to purchase of guns. I think they can buy 5 guns on one license, mostly land owners buy 2-3 at best. This license is usually given if there are vermin like wild boar in the area. As decades go by both both vermin and large Agri land holders are decreasing, so there is less reason for govt to give license hence the bureaucracy and red tape.

Coming to urban landscape, licence can be provided only for self defence that too when a threat can be proved. All businessmen who have a threat mostly already own a pistol or revolver in big cities.

Allowing people to carry 12 bore guns has a disadvantage in urban setting, because you never know who it is going to hit after 40-50 yards of pellet dispersion.

Don't get me started on rules you have to follow once you own a gun, atleast in andhra.

Basically what I am getting at is that, Govt is intentionally curtailing guns in civilian hands. From their point of view, they have good reasons.