DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Lonewarrior]

A - the vast majority was done under Soviet Russia where each and every aircraft designer was made to compete against the other - heck even manufacturing plants had compete against each other.

The same was true for every organisation. Be it small arms, tanks, ships you name it,

look at post Soviet Russia, they unionized everything - all manufacturers came under one umbrella organization - the result: theirs not a single new fighter design that is anywhere close to the rate of progress during soviet times.

Yup I know, and the best part was after a certain "factory" used to win a trial they added the best features of the loosing "factories" in that too. Mikhail Kalashnikov was given an year of time in 1946 to improve his rifle based on the losing engineer's recommendations.

But what's stopping us from doing so?
If I'm not wrong then the first time something similar happened was in 2002 when OFB and ARDE competed with each other for the 5.56x30mm MINSAS carbine.
ARDE was established in 1958 and OFBs were established in late Cretaceous period, yet it took us almost 5 decades to realise we can make them compete to get better product. So is it those lab's fault or governments?

China- the fuckers just reverse engineer shit.

Oh C'mon atleast we shouldn't point fingers on someone for reverse engineering

 

[Lonewarrior]

Yet 90% of the things DRDO claims credit for is done by private industry.

DRDO throws around goddamn stupid requirements that makes me wanna punch them in the face.

Everything from CNC demands, to comm. protocols to fucking wire connectors they specify in their RFPs.

Only problem: the fuckers are living in the 70s.

They havent heard of 3D printing, of layering composites, of modern USB based comm. protocols that work 10 times faster and are secure unlike their fuckall RS 232 serial comms.

Hadd chutiye hai.

Arre Maalik, pata hai...see

We still use old CAD softwares, FEA softwares are even older, you won't find a single gaming PC/laptop, we are yet to use 3D printing on a large scale, the tools & equipment are old, there is an utter lack of 5-axis CNC machining...

But the solution is to implement a strict management style like those in private companies not simply just sell it off.

 

[johnj]

‘Dream on that you keep your government job of no work, no responsibility and no accountability. To me only DRDO person will argue what you are saying.

Job security is not the issue here but lack of gov will and funds.
Privatization is good if a private entity can spend 10s to 50s billion $ into R & D, but there is none, even US private giants asking for US gov money
Unlike civilian R&D establishment, Military R&D offer silent job security, means not easy to fire employees
Currently Indian gov have zero issue with Private Military R&D establishment & allow sharing certain Gov military tech to private sector, also GoI supportive of Private DRDO
Two major issue are funds and order, plus lack of export support.
In my onion, if the biggest customers of a private company/org are governments and majority of its income comes from government sector, then its like a gov company/org and majority of Military R&D establishment in the world are gov org.
No private entity in India interested in buying DRDO, DRDO in private hands is like flowers in monkey hands

 

[Gyyan]

 

[johnj]

the US wants India first to buy the F-16, F-18, or F-15 class of aircraft for its fighter aircraft ecosystem. Also, there is the issue of India having purchased the S-400 air defense system from Russia.

India’s own AMCA induction with stealth features is at least 15 years away

A decade ago Indian fan boys stated India become second nation in Asia to acquire 5th gen jet after Israel
Now India only get AMCA after 2040 and US, UK, EU, China & Japan introduce 6th gen fighter in 2035

 

[Lonewarrior]

A decade ago Indian fan boys stated India become second nation in Asia to acquire 5th gen jet after Israel
Now India only get AMCA after 2040 and US, UK, EU, China & Japan introduce 6th gen fighter in 2035

...and...and...in the meantime out of nowhere Turkey and South Korea are looking at as giggling with their almost 5th generation fighters

 

[Corvus Splendens]

 

[Lonewarrior]

View attachment 213333

So this is now something to boast about
Cool

 

[Hari Sud]

Job security is not the issue here but lack of gov will and funds.
Privatization is good if a private entity can spend 10s to 50s billion $ into R & D, but there is none, even US private giants asking for US gov money
Unlike civilian R&D establishment, Military R&D offer silent job security, means not easy to fire employees
Currently Indian gov have zero issue with Private Military R&D establishment & allow sharing certain Gov military tech to private sector, also GoI supportive of Private DRDO
Two major issue are funds and order, plus lack of export support.
In my onion, if the biggest customers of a private company/org are governments and majority of its income comes from government sector, then its like a gov company/org and majority of Military R&D establishment in the world are gov org.
No private entity in India interested in buying DRDO, DRDO in private hands is like flowers in monkey hands

‘Too much defence of the argument without talking about bad DRDO failures or longest time taken to even develop small technologies like UAVs.

 

[Hari Sud]

I've asked you why each and every big military power has its own government owned R&D wing despite being way more privatised economy than us, heck in US each arm has multiple R&D centres...USAF has AFRL, Navy has NAWS, NRL...but you chose to ignore that question altogether. Same for the question about Russia and China.

So this is the last time I'm asking you a question, hope this will put an end to this stupid argument.
> DRDO managed to engage a small satellite travelling at a speed of approximately 7km/s at an altitude of 250km; all while on a shoestring budget
> Tata, Adani, Reliance, Kalyani are all huge firms with millions of dollars at their disposal and perhaps most importantly, multiply cash-flow (Tata can use the profits from Tata commercial vehicles to do R&D in military vehicles)

But still we rarely see any private firm coming up with good R&D. Why?
or
Just name a single private sector R&D example that comes close to Shakti so that I can get assured that private sector will successfully manage DRDO.

‘Elsewhere in Democracy and western style business techniques; the government own a very limited defence R&D. Only the one which cannot be done outside like building an Atom Bomb from 1941 to 1945. Even then, private scientists were hired for a limited time until the job was done. On the other hand in DRDO, you are permanent with practically no way to enforce discipline, accountability and responsibility.

 

[Lonewarrior]

What's wrong with you Pal...first you skip answering quite straightforward questions of mine and then out of nowhere you slide in new arguments of yours

‘Elsewhere in Democracy and western style business techniques; the government own a very limited defence R&D. Only the one which cannot be done outside like building an Atom Bomb from 1941 to 1954. Even then, private scientists were hired for a limited time until the job was done. On the other hand in DRDO, you are permanent with practically no way to enforce discipline, accountability and responsibility.

Really Mate! This is your argument!?
DARPA, perhaps the epitome of military research on this planet, the same agency that gave us this very internet and GPS is currently working on a pest control solution for crops on DoD's money

https://www.darpa.mil/program/insect-allies

 

[shade]

There is this new phenomenon in the post-Modi world of unsolicited love and religious devotion to suit-boots, capitalism, market phorses, and privatization

It's another matter than the top suit-boots here are all baniya tier and will only do what gets them profit max rather than take risk and invest in matters of national defense.

All the paki-puccy loving, lazy and incompetent DRDO walas deserve is the stick from GoI, not privatization which won't magically make them performant .

 

[johnj]

‘Too much defence of the argument without talking about bad DRDO failures or longest time taken to even develop small technologies like UAVs.

failures or longest time taken also common & normal to all, including private sector
UAVs, Cruise missiles and other flying craft are the areas we lack behind, but we are learning, and the learning curve depends on funding
Now the biggest worry is lose of required human resources to high paid jobs & foreign countries
Privatizing DRDO is not going to help. but creating new Private DRDO maybe, but it depends on Indian armed forces order and gov funds. If gov want, they can fund a private org to develop UAV, ALCM and light ac and RTA
What we need is a great Defense minister, not DRDO privatization

 

[johnj]

‘Elsewhere in Democracy and western style business techniques; the government own a very limited defence R&D. Only the one which cannot be done outside like building an Atom Bomb from 1941 to 1945. Even then, private scientists were hired for a limited time until the job was done. On the other hand in DRDO, you are permanent with practically no way to enforce discipline, accountability and responsibility.

That is the point, why privatization of drdo not happing - Atom Bomb

 

[cyclops]

Could someone tell me if the Swathi Mk2 is going to be an AESA WLR or no?

 

[Lonewarrior]

Could someone tell me if the Swathi Mk2 is going to be an AESA WLR or no?

I guess it's a PESA

@porky_kicker might know

 

[Fatalis]

From Porky_Kicker sir ji

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Could someone tell me if the Swathi Mk2 is going to be an AESA WLR or no?

Whats the advantage of AESA vs PESA for a WLR? I dont think any artillery shells come with jamming :v

 

[binayak95]

Whats the advantage of AESA vs PESA for a WLR? I dont think any artillery shells come with jamming :v

TRMs my man.

Tiny pencil beams to track multiple incoming shells.

 

[Lonewarrior]

From Porky_Kicker sir ji

> No prior experience in any kind of auto-cannon R&D let alone Gatling
> No prior experience in gun fired proximity fuze let alone miniaturizing it enough for 20-30mm
> No prior experience in programming while firing rounds let alone doing it when the RPM is extremely high; coz Gatling
> No prior experience in combustible cartridge for small arms let alone making one for such a high rate of fire weapon where chamber temperature will cause cook-offs
> God knows what they mean by camouflage, concealment, firing signature management on a 20-30mm Gatling gun
> Just like everyone is now throwing around AI because of ChatGPT so...AI based autonomous target engagement
> What kind of unique capability is this post firing target damage assessment capability?

In short

Spoiler