DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Leonardo Alves]

Army should try an under water trials and space trails too we should do everything

You forgot to add pakistan army trials too, I mean must give to porks and ask them "how's the ATAGS?" with whiskey in one hand and Mithai in other hand.
I mean we need validation from them too.

This is systematically complete misuse of this government LOOOOOONG HAND method and it's patience that army is jumping here and there.

These army guys really, what can I say about them, we are all following ATAGS development since it's inception, it was said Army too was there in the loop when the guns were being made along with academia and private players.

Questions must be asked about if the weight issue was so important why army didn't put titanium use mandatory? Or don't they know the titanium use will increase the cost.

It's similar to sr-71 and mig-25 comparison, either you choose numbers or performance, then too weight is 18 tons and if I am not wrong weight means mobility problems for that I say ATAGS has proved itself in sikkim as per the print article.

Now regarding performance ELBIT CLAIMED firing capability and ATAGS firing capability, well to that question I will give example of f-18 and attach this old video
Regarding performances of f-18 at that time and today, we need not pressurize our minds to where and at what position f-18 is today.

Another example is of ofcourse merkava, Army guys know whatever merkava is today is because of Israelis sticking with their weapon.
So, testing and capability improvements will happen incrementally not hundred percent today.

You all guys know why we are asking and fighting over these things is because we don't know what was army primary requirement, do they wanted mountain gun or desert gun or self propelled gun.
If you want all then the best material for construction is ofcourse steel and not titanium alloy, if you want to keep the cost down.

Regarding cost, well in that government is famous we all know what happened with tejas,so army need not worry about that.
Let kalyani and Tata worry about that.

Army cannot run now and ofcourse not after CDS sir said this.

Will win war through indigenous weapons in future: CDS Gen Bipin Rawat

While addressing the event at Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) in the national capital on December 18, Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) General Bipin Rawat said, “This time, we are witnessing that our private industry is also motivated, they need your support.” “I feel that in...

m.economictimes.com

And when there army chief too said this.

Self-reliance in defence is 'strategic necessity', says Army chief Naravane

Our external dependence for weapons and ammunition creates vulnerabilities in times of crisis, M.M. Naravane said.Encouraging the private industry to take advantage of the government's reform measures to boost domestic defence production, he said the Army was strongly committed to support them

www.livemint.com

I will end with the BASIC OF CHOOSING INDIGENOUS WEAPON is SIMPLE THAT YOU CHOOSE IT DESPITE IT'S SHORT COMING and heck ATAGS is not even short comer here barring it's so called always weight issue by army.
Let's leave that to army and industry engineers, army should focus on how to win the war with indigenous weapons if it want INDIA to be a respectful power in future.

Otherwise, the same situation of KADI NINDA running TO RUSSIA AND ISRAEL WHEN CHONGS WERE AT OUR NECK DURING PREVIOUS YEAR will always arise, whether you do FULL TOT OR HALF TOT joke.

 

[tsunami]

That all because corruption. In foreign products cuts are high in the deal.
That's why army loves foreign product.
If army has problem with weight of atagas army must also test bharat 52 gun if weight is the concern.
That's why government has started import ban list for foreign products.
If weight is soo much of concern to indian army why indian army purchased k9 VAJRA 47 tonne artillery system that is heaviest of all. Even 2.5 times heavier than atagas

K9 Vajra is a self propelled artillery system. That 47 tons weight is because of an Artillery on a Tank.

 

[sorcerer]

MoD notifies ‘Second Positive Indigenisation List’ of 108 items to promote self-reliance & defence exports


Posted On: 31 MAY 2021 5:15PM by PIB Delhi



In pursuance of Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi’s endeavor of ‘Atmanirbhar Bharat’ and to boost indigenisation in the Defence sector, Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh has approved a proposal of the Department of Military Affairs, Ministry of Defence (MoD) to notify the ‘Second Positive Indigenisation List’ of 108 items. This will give further boost to indigenisation with active participation of public and private sector for fulfilling the twin objectives of achieving self-reliance and promoting defence exports. All the 108 items will now be procured from indigenous sources as per provisions given in Defence Acquisition Procedure (DAP) 2020.


The second list (enclosed) lays special focus on weapons/systems which are currently under development/trials and are likely to translate into firm orders in the future. Like the first list, import substitution of ammunition which is a recurring requirement has been given special focus. Not only does the list recognise the potential of local defence industry, it will also invigorate impetus to domestic Research &Development by attracting fresh investment into technology and manufacturing capabilities.


The ‘Second Positive Indigenisation List’ comprises complex systems, sensors, simulator, weapons and ammunitions like Helicopters, Next Generation Corvettes, Air Borne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) systems, Tank Engines, Medium Power Radar for Mountains, MRSAM Weapon Systems and many more such items to fulfil the requirements of Indian Armed Forces.This second list is planned to be implemented progressively with effect from December 2021 to December 2025.


Click here to see the Second Positive Indigenisation List


This second list has been prepared by MoD after several rounds of consultations with government and private manufacturing industry confederations to assess future capabilities of Indian Industry which will be able to meet requirements of the Armed Forces. This list provides continuous impetus towards self-reliance in Defence.


The Defence industry can gainfully utilise this golden opportunity to build robust Research and Development facilities, capacities and capabilities to meet the futuristic requirements of the Armed Forces. This list also provides an excellent opportunity for ‘start-ups’ as also MSMEs which will get tremendous boost from this initiative.


Towards this, Ministry of Defence, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Service Head Quarters (SHQs) will take all necessary steps, including hand holding of the Industry, to ensure that the timelines mentioned in the ‘Second Positive Indigenisation List’ are met, thereby facilitating an environment for Indian Defence Manufacturers to create world class infrastructure, assist in Government’s ‘Make in India’ vision to make India self-reliant in defence and develop the capabilities for defence export in the near future.The Second Positive Indigenisation List will be hosted in the MoD website.


In August 2020, the ‘First Positive Indigenisation’ List comprising 101 items was notified, in pursuance of Government’s endeavor of ‘AtmaNirbhar Bharat Abhiyan’ and to boost indigenisation in the defence sector. At that time, it was also highlighted that more such equipment would be identified progressively to facilitate and encourage defence manufacturing in the country.

https://static.pib.gov.in/WriteReadData/specificdocs/documents/2021/may/doc202153101.pdf

 

[Marliii]

Bye bye ATAGS.we will always remember you.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Bye bye ATAGS.we will always remember you.

Nai re , nirash mat ho.
Aayeneg atags bhi aayenge

 

[IndianHawk]

I don't see artillery or light tank listed

As someone replied before artillery is already covered in previous list.

Now this new list doesn't directly call for ban for MBTs perhaps because few more T90 are yet to be aquired and light tank might be imported and manufactured in india with foreign collaboration due to limited numbers.

But if we read carefully there is provision for 1000 hp engine indiginiously for t72 . And there are many tank subsystems are listed . We already know drdo is developing 1500-2000 hp engine for heavy tank also.

So if we will have indigenous engine from 1000hp to 2000 hp and indegenious subsystems than what will be buy from foreign countries empty shell??

No the list is deliberately leaving out scope to import some subsystems ( perhaps smoothbore gun of certain calibar and some ammunition and some other new technologies). So that our next tank can incorporate cutting edge of technology.

Also note ifv import is now totally banned. That's a huge huge contract that will now remain in india.

Atgm are banned within range of 7km so that's also very positive.

SDR are going to be all indian .

 

[IndianHawk]

The name of list is no longer negative list but positive indiginization list. Which means govt attitude is changed.

Govt has realised we are loosing far more money in many many foreign components in existing systems. And hence wants to indiginise sub components faster.

This is good. With faster indigination of sub components we will have whole ecosystem for complete indigenous platforms in the future.

If we can replace t72 /T90 engine , auxiliary pack , track assembly etc. We have almost all materials ready for development of future tanks of 50 tons to 60 tons class. Plus all technology development from arjun program.

 

[IndianHawk]

Also whap orders are now secured.

 

[FalconSlayers]

1180 Israeli ATHOS were to be procured, when it’s foreign made, huge orders will be given, but Indigenous Bharat 52, Dhanush and ATAGS will get a few hundred pieces order, same for our tanks. People call me idiot and stupid. Our Army itself doesn’t want indigenous stuff, all this make in India has been election Jumla.

Can they tell us what indigenisation they’re talking about? We have own holographic sight with own IP, Army doesn’t care and make it standard, but ever ready to import EOTech 512s and then all other units importing tonnes of different optics making a clusterfuck. Army can easily direct SSS Defence to design and manufacture a AR-15 based rifle on their own specs, will Army do that? No!!!, they’ll import.

And we all saw how stupid Indian Army is that they didn’t even care than CAR-816 deal was cancelled for Modi’s Make in India jumla politics during high Sino-Indian tensions and later a “global tender for CQB Carbines was released”. Because Make in India jumla failed.

How many TATA Kestrel have been ordered? How many Mahindra ASLV ordered, a few orders by MoD for domestic Make in India jumla consumption while you need to standardise it replacing almost all Gyspies except a few for non combat use in civilian areas.

And its frustrating that they even create shit like GSQRs, like we discussed their CQB BS. They want a 5.56x45mm Carbine which has a foldable stock, throwing out CAR-816 and any other AR-15 based Rifle and singling out SiG MCX which is expensive af.

Indian Army uses Holographic sights on SiG-716i Battle Rifles, lol, rest use iron sights, when a soldier can’t engage beyond a focal length due to eyesight restrictions at long ranges, what’s the point of battle rifles?
Army wants AK-103M as standard issue infantry rifle, this same rifle chambered in 5.45x39 has been Russian Army standard issue since 1974. And if production starts in 2025 all rifles will be delivered by 2035 means till 2035 we will be receiving AKs while the whole world would be using advanced rifles.

Indian Army SF modernisation is trash, and it is a sign of boomers who select rifles based on looks as a boomer will obviously get impressed by FN SCAR-L in front of HK-416s because it is expensive, imagine you had a chance of buying HK-416 but you didn’t, 1 year on we were supposed to buy 1040 Battle Rifles (SCAR-H was selected, good choice here no doubt when you have thousands of SiG-716i lol), 1400 Assault Rifles (SCAR-L selected over HK-416, ), 400 Night Vision devices (US Made despite Tonbo makes it here), .50 Cal machine gun (Supposed to be imported from USA despite OFB making them here), .50 Cal snipers (no one makes it here, can’t comment). This is our state where Indian Army issues High Cut helmets but themselves don’t know what they’re used for .

There are tonnes of different vest, different helmet, different AK-47 rifle, different optic, different camo used by each soldier, no standardisation. Imagine you still use 1970 helmets even when you make high quality stuff here only.

And most of the rifles our infantry will be operating won’t have optics or anything yet Indian Army wants rails on it, lol. Our most of the soldiers have 1970s helmet, no bulletproof jacket, rifle with no optics just a few frontline dudes have.


Instead of reducing logistics issue by commonalising some ammunition, IA wants a clusterfuck of ammo as well.


Saare jahaan se achha.....

 

[SavageKing456]

1180 Israeli ATHOS were to be procured, when it’s foreign made, huge orders will be given, but Indigenous Bharat 52, Dhanush and ATAGS will get a few hundred pieces order, same for our tanks. People call me idiot and stupid. Our Army itself doesn’t want indigenous stuff, all this make in India has been election Jumla.

Can they tell us what indigenisation they’re talking about? We have own holographic sight with own IP, Army doesn’t care and make it standard, but ever ready to import EOTech 512s and then all other units importing tonnes of different optics making a clusterfuck. Army can easily direct SSS Defence to design and manufacture a AR-15 based rifle on their own specs, will Army do that? No!!!, they’ll import.

And we all saw how stupid Indian Army is that they didn’t even care than CAR-816 deal was cancelled for Modi’s Make in India jumla politics during high Sino-Indian tensions and later a “global tender for CQB Carbines was released”. Because Make in India jumla failed.

How many TATA Kestrel have been ordered? How many Mahindra ASLV ordered, a few orders by MoD for domestic Make in India jumla consumption while you need to standardise it replacing almost all Gyspies except a few for non combat use in civilian areas.

And its frustrating that they even create shit like GSQRs, like we discussed their CQB BS. They want a 5.56x45mm Carbine which has a foldable stock, throwing out CAR-816 and any other AR-15 based Rifle and singling out SiG MCX which is expensive af.

Indian Army uses Holographic sights on SiG-716i Battle Rifles, lol, rest use iron sights, when a soldier can’t engage beyond a focal length due to eyesight restrictions at long ranges, what’s the point of battle rifles?
Army wants AK-103M as standard issue infantry rifle, this same rifle chambered in 5.45x39 has been Russian Army standard issue since 1974. And if production starts in 2025 all rifles will be delivered by 2035 means till 2035 we will be receiving AKs while the whole world would be using advanced rifles.

Indian Army SF modernisation is trash, and it is a sign of boomers who select rifles based on looks as a boomer will obviously get impressed by FN SCAR-L in front of HK-416s because it is expensive, imagine you had a chance of buying HK-416 but you didn’t, 1 year on we were supposed to buy 1040 Battle Rifles (SCAR-H was selected, good choice here no doubt when you have thousands of SiG-716i lol), 1400 Assault Rifles (SCAR-L selected over HK-416, ), 400 Night Vision devices (US Made despite Tonbo makes it here), .50 Cal machine gun (Supposed to be imported from USA despite OFB making them here), .50 Cal snipers (no one makes it here, can’t comment). This is our state where Indian Army issues High Cut helmets but themselves don’t know what they’re used for .

There are tonnes of different vest, different helmet, different AK-47 rifle, different optic, different camo used by each soldier, no standardisation. Imagine you still use 1970 helmets even when you make high quality stuff here only.

And most of the rifles our infantry will be operating won’t have optics or anything yet Indian Army wants rails on it, lol. Our most of the soldiers have 1970s helmet, no bulletproof jacket, rifle with no optics just a few frontline dudes have.


Instead of reducing logistics issue by commonalising some ammunition, IA wants a clusterfuck of ammo as well.


Saare jahaan se achha.....

It's high time all the three service's acquisition council need reforms,army is most required

 

[Lonewolf]

It's high time all the three service's acquisition council need reforms,army is most required

And FasTrack mode ,slow like a turtle

 

[fire starter]

 

[FalconSlayers]

It's high time all the three service's acquisition council need reforms,army is most required

And this is in Army, Airforce can scrap 114 mmrca and buyout 36 additional rafale and 78 of the rest can be given to Tejas MK2 or more as LCA MK2 will be a lot cheaper due to being single engined. Recently Sameer Joshi sahab said its difficult to run an aerospace startup. In Navy only the Vessel structure is made in India, naval guns, radars, electronic subsystems and other technical stuff remains imported and we say wow Navy self reliant. Lol.

 

[Lonewolf]

And this is in Army, Airforce can scrap 114 mmrca and buyout 36 additional rafale and 78 of the rest can be given to Tejas MK2 or more as LCA MK2 will be a lot cheaper due to being single engined. Recently Sameer Joshi sahab said its difficult to run an aerospace startup. In Navy only the Vessel structure is made in India, naval guns, radars, electronic subsystems and other technical stuff remains imported and we say wow Navy self reliant. Lol.

Sonar ,weapons system , electric fitting , piping , compression chamber , fuel tanks ,etc ?

 

[FalconSlayers]

Sonar ,weapons system , electric fitting , piping , compression chamber , fuel tanks ,etc ?

No, Avionics will be wrong word for navy so what I want to say will be called Navionics by me, Navionics is the naval counterpart of the term Avionics.

 

[SavageKing456]

And this is in Army, Airforce can scrap 114 mmrca and buyout 36 additional rafale and 78 of the rest can be given to Tejas MK2 or more as LCA MK2 will be a lot cheaper due to being single engined. Recently Sameer Joshi sahab said its difficult to run an aerospace startup. In Navy only the Vessel structure is made in India, naval guns, radars, electronic subsystems and other technical stuff remains imported and we say wow Navy self reliant. Lol.

Y'all nibbiars even my friend who is patriotic and based Indian is just "thinking" for startup venture,and he is a bright mind.
There should be an environment in which people just don't hesitate.
Sadly Our country is still not startup friendly when it comes to aerospace&defense.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Y'all nibbiars even my friend who is patriotic and based Indian is just "thinking" for startup venture,and he is a bright mind.
There should be an environment in which people just don't hesitate.
Our country is still not startup friendly when it comes to aerospace&defense.

Never will be, this government is just a Congress on steroids.

 

[THESIS THORON]

Never will be, this government is just a Congress on steroids.

I DONT THINK LIKE THAT
IF IT WAS CONGI ON STEROIDS THEN THER WOULD BE TONS OF CORRUPTION AND OTHER THINGS ALSO

 

[mist_consecutive]

Frankly, senseless idiotic claim without context and research.

You are going to tell me the $4 billion transport jets (C17 Globemaster) wasn't worth every penny of them? They have literally become the backbone of our heavy transport and a boon for our military. Due to them, our airlift capacity is actually unparalleled in whole South Asia, even exceeding China (till they make it Y-20 in numbers).

People having no experience (either operation or manufacturing) indigenous weapons cry as if everything Indian is Midas-touched.

Army and air force shy away from indigenous products because their lives will be dependent on those, and if they fail to protect no one will question the cheap quality of the product that gave away on the battlefield, but the army who failed to procure good products.

That being said, yes there are lobbies and corruption in the army, but the reason also have been DRDO/HAL quality has sheerly been disappointing.

Now, management and work culture are very slowly improving in the PSUs, and also the quality with it.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Frankly, senseless idiotic claim without context and research.

You are going to tell me the $4 billion transport jets (C17 Globemaster) wasn't worth every penny of them? They have literally become the backbone of our heavy transport and a boon for our military. Due to them, our airlift capacity is actually unparalleled in whole South Asia, even exceeding China (till they make it Y-20 in numbers).

People having no experience (either operation or manufacturing) indigenous weapons cry as if everything Indian is Midas-touched.

Army and air force shy away from indigenous products because their lives will be dependent on those, and if they fail to protect no one will question the cheap quality of the product that gave away on the battlefield, but the army who failed to procure good products.

That being said, yes there are lobbies and corruption in the army, but the reason also have been DRDO/HAL quality has sheerly been disappointing.

Now, management and work culture are very slowly improving in the PSUs, and also the quality with it.

He didn’t say 4 billion on C-17s were wasted, he says that he wants such buying enthusiasm in Armed forces for domestic maal as well.