DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[IndianHawk]

He didn’t say 4 billion on C-17s were wasted, he says that he wants such buying enthusiasm in Armed forces for domestic maal as well.

That's already happening we have bought almost 10 billion worth of lca jets. MWF program will be see aquisition cost north of 14 billion and lifetime costs of 20-30 billion USD. AMCA program may be above 50 billion USD in development and procurement only.

 

[IndianHawk]

Frankly, senseless idiotic claim without context and research.

You are going to tell me the $4 billion transport jets (C17 Globemaster) wasn't worth every penny of them? They have literally become the backbone of our heavy transport and a boon for our military. Due to them, our airlift capacity is actually unparalleled in whole South Asia, even exceeding China (till they make it Y-20 in numbers).

People having no experience (either operation or manufacturing) indigenous weapons cry as if everything Indian is Midas-touched.

Army and air force shy away from indigenous products because their lives will be dependent on those, and if they fail to protect no one will question the cheap quality of the product that gave away on the battlefield, but the army who failed to procure good products.

That being said, yes there are lobbies and corruption in the army, but the reason also have been DRDO/HAL quality has sheerly been disappointing.

Now, management and work culture are very slowly improving in the PSUs, and also the quality with it.

C17 have paid for themselves just by Saving thousands of life by bringing tons of oxygen and plants against corona

 

[IndianHawk]

1180 Israeli ATHOS were to be procured, when it’s foreign made, huge orders will be given, but Indigenous Bharat 52, Dhanush and ATAGS will get a few hundred pieces order, same for our tanks. People call me idiot and stupid. Our Army itself doesn’t want indigenous stuff, all this make in India has been election Jumla.

Can they tell us what indigenisation they’re talking about? We have own holographic sight with own IP, Army doesn’t care and make it standard, but ever ready to import EOTech 512s and then all other units importing tonnes of different optics making a clusterfuck. Army can easily direct SSS Defence to design and manufacture a AR-15 based rifle on their own specs, will Army do that? No!!!, they’ll import.

And we all saw how stupid Indian Army is that they didn’t even care than CAR-816 deal was cancelled for Modi’s Make in India jumla politics during high Sino-Indian tensions and later a “global tender for CQB Carbines was released”. Because Make in India jumla failed.

How many TATA Kestrel have been ordered? How many Mahindra ASLV ordered, a few orders by MoD for domestic Make in India jumla consumption while you need to standardise it replacing almost all Gyspies except a few for non combat use in civilian areas.

And its frustrating that they even create shit like GSQRs, like we discussed their CQB BS. They want a 5.56x45mm Carbine which has a foldable stock, throwing out CAR-816 and any other AR-15 based Rifle and singling out SiG MCX which is expensive af.

Indian Army uses Holographic sights on SiG-716i Battle Rifles, lol, rest use iron sights, when a soldier can’t engage beyond a focal length due to eyesight restrictions at long ranges, what’s the point of battle rifles?
Army wants AK-103M as standard issue infantry rifle, this same rifle chambered in 5.45x39 has been Russian Army standard issue since 1974. And if production starts in 2025 all rifles will be delivered by 2035 means till 2035 we will be receiving AKs while the whole world would be using advanced rifles.

Indian Army SF modernisation is trash, and it is a sign of boomers who select rifles based on looks as a boomer will obviously get impressed by FN SCAR-L in front of HK-416s because it is expensive, imagine you had a chance of buying HK-416 but you didn’t, 1 year on we were supposed to buy 1040 Battle Rifles (SCAR-H was selected, good choice here no doubt when you have thousands of SiG-716i lol), 1400 Assault Rifles (SCAR-L selected over HK-416, ), 400 Night Vision devices (US Made despite Tonbo makes it here), .50 Cal machine gun (Supposed to be imported from USA despite OFB making them here), .50 Cal snipers (no one makes it here, can’t comment). This is our state where Indian Army issues High Cut helmets but themselves don’t know what they’re used for .

There are tonnes of different vest, different helmet, different AK-47 rifle, different optic, different camo used by each soldier, no standardisation. Imagine you still use 1970 helmets even when you make high quality stuff here only.

And most of the rifles our infantry will be operating won’t have optics or anything yet Indian Army wants rails on it, lol. Our most of the soldiers have 1970s helmet, no bulletproof jacket, rifle with no optics just a few frontline dudes have.


Instead of reducing logistics issue by commonalising some ammunition, IA wants a clusterfuck of ammo as well.


Saare jahaan se achha.....

Carbines are on the list. 1300 mahindra aslv have been already bought . More will come.

Kestral and whap all will see massive orders as all armoured vehicles have been banned.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Carbines are on the list. 1300 mahindra aslv have been already bought . More will come.

Kestral and whap all will see massive orders as all armoured vehicles have been banned.

Nothing, JV manufacturing will still happen, here no one focusses on Domestic IPR.

 

[ezsasa]

He didn’t say 4 billion on C-17s were wasted, he says that he wants such buying enthusiasm in Armed forces for domestic maal as well.

but C17 or C130 type proven products don’t exist in Indian defence product catalogue.

India hasn’t reached that stage of manufacturing proven defence products.

 

[flanker99]

Unpopular opinion i think IAF and IN is right to still go ahead with mrfa and mrcbf as it will keep pressure on domestic projects to perform and keep to timelines and if they fail then Both service can look at foreign jets.
Imo both service will stick with domestic platform if its available on time and meets requirements...i've seen a good amount change in attitude towards domestic products from both service but its the army thats still.....

 

[IndianHawk]

but C17 or C130 type proven products don’t exist in Indian defence product catalogue.

India hasn’t reached that stage of manufacturing proven defence products.

Building military transport jets is much easier than building Tejas like fighter jet. We can build a decent transport jet with western engines. But our current required numbers don't justify building something like c17 or even c130 as of now.

We might soon start building a medium category jet which could be used as a common platform for awacs , transport , tanker , marine patrol( like p8i).
For which the numbers make sense.

Perhaps that is why a 90 seater regional jet is in consideration.

 

[ezsasa]

Unpopular opinion i think IAF and IN is right to still go ahead with mrfa and mrcbf as it will keep pressure on domestic projects to perform and keep to timelines and if they fail then Both service can look at foreign jets.
Imo both service will stick with domestic platform if its available on time and meets requirements...i've seen a good amount change in attitude towards domestic products from both service but its the army thats still.....

on the IA part, is that assumption after considering this new process adopted by IA since 2018?
they release their requirements to indian industry every year, only after indian industry fails to give them a solution they are going for global tender.

https://indianarmy.nic.in/makeinindia/CPDS_2020_ADB.pdf

 

[airstrike99]

2nd negative list.
-
no tanks at all.
no artillery guns
T-72,90 engines and APUs deadline until 2025.

not even MOD bureaucrats could defeat army baaboos.

DRDO will make Arjun MK2 and army will kill it just to breath the smoke out of T-14 exhaust.
army will also kill ATAGS.
just so you guys know,

ATAGS was tested for 526 kms at high altitude for mobility + fire trails, while ATHOS was tested for 23 kms
526kms vs 23 kms

why do i even bother wasting my time on army at this point.
waiting for next gen artillery gun to be tested in the year 2080. meet you guys in 60 yrs.

 

[Lonewolf]

2nd negative list.
-
no tanks at all.
no artillery guns
T-72,90 engines and APUs deadline until 2025.

not even MOD bureaucrats could defeat army baaboos.

DRDO will make Arjun MK2 and army will kill it just to breath the smoke out of T-14 exhaust.
army will also kill ATAGS.
just so you guys know,

ATAGS was tested for 526 kms at high altitude for mobility + fire trails, while ATHOS was tested for 23 kms
526kms vs 23 kms

why do i even bother wasting my time on army at this point.
waiting for next gen artillery gun to be tested in the year 2080. meet you guys in 60 yrs.

Except it was already in first list

 

[airstrike99]

Except it was already in first list

still, there is some emergency procurement policy to get around 1st list.

 

[Tang]

The name of list is no longer negative list but positive indiginization list. Which means govt attitude is changed.

Govt has realised we are loosing far more money in many many foreign components in existing systems. And hence wants to indiginise sub components faster.

This is good. With faster indigination of sub components we will have whole ecosystem for complete indigenous platforms in the future.

If we can replace t72 /T90 engine , auxiliary pack , track assembly etc. We have almost all materials ready for development of future tanks of 50 tons to 60 tons class. Plus all technology development from arjun program.

We already have indigenised engine for T72 T90 etc.

Uprated 1000 hp engine for T-72 tanks | Defence Research and Development Organisation - DRDO, Ministry of Defence, Government of India

V46 engine of 780 hp has been uprated to 1000 hp. It is extensively evaluated in test bed and in field. Currently under final stage of field trials.

www.drdo.gov.in

Further I think all of the sub system for the existing one are all locally sourced.

Good point btw.

 

[Tang]

Sitharaman releases 'Made-in-india' multi-fuel war tank engines to Army

EFA's indigenisation efforts have resulted in savings to the exchequer of Rs 3.3 million for each T-90 engine and Rs 975,000 for each T-72 engine

www.business-standard.com

 

[vampyrbladez]

1180 Israeli ATHOS were to be procured, when it’s foreign made, huge orders will be given, but Indigenous Bharat 52, Dhanush and ATAGS will get a few hundred pieces order, same for our tanks. People call me idiot and stupid. Our Army itself doesn’t want indigenous stuff, all this make in India has been election Jumla.

Can they tell us what indigenisation they’re talking about? We have own holographic sight with own IP, Army doesn’t care and make it standard, but ever ready to import EOTech 512s and then all other units importing tonnes of different optics making a clusterfuck. Army can easily direct SSS Defence to design and manufacture a AR-15 based rifle on their own specs, will Army do that? No!!!, they’ll import.

And we all saw how stupid Indian Army is that they didn’t even care than CAR-816 deal was cancelled for Modi’s Make in India jumla politics during high Sino-Indian tensions and later a “global tender for CQB Carbines was released”. Because Make in India jumla failed.

How many TATA Kestrel have been ordered? How many Mahindra ASLV ordered, a few orders by MoD for domestic Make in India jumla consumption while you need to standardise it replacing almost all Gyspies except a few for non combat use in civilian areas.

And its frustrating that they even create shit like GSQRs, like we discussed their CQB BS. They want a 5.56x45mm Carbine which has a foldable stock, throwing out CAR-816 and any other AR-15 based Rifle and singling out SiG MCX which is expensive af.

Indian Army uses Holographic sights on SiG-716i Battle Rifles, lol, rest use iron sights, when a soldier can’t engage beyond a focal length due to eyesight restrictions at long ranges, what’s the point of battle rifles?
Army wants AK-103M as standard issue infantry rifle, this same rifle chambered in 5.45x39 has been Russian Army standard issue since 1974. And if production starts in 2025 all rifles will be delivered by 2035 means till 2035 we will be receiving AKs while the whole world would be using advanced rifles.

Indian Army SF modernisation is trash, and it is a sign of boomers who select rifles based on looks as a boomer will obviously get impressed by FN SCAR-L in front of HK-416s because it is expensive, imagine you had a chance of buying HK-416 but you didn’t, 1 year on we were supposed to buy 1040 Battle Rifles (SCAR-H was selected, good choice here no doubt when you have thousands of SiG-716i lol), 1400 Assault Rifles (SCAR-L selected over HK-416, ), 400 Night Vision devices (US Made despite Tonbo makes it here), .50 Cal machine gun (Supposed to be imported from USA despite OFB making them here), .50 Cal snipers (no one makes it here, can’t comment). This is our state where Indian Army issues High Cut helmets but themselves don’t know what they’re used for .

There are tonnes of different vest, different helmet, different AK-47 rifle, different optic, different camo used by each soldier, no standardisation. Imagine you still use 1970 helmets even when you make high quality stuff here only.

And most of the rifles our infantry will be operating won’t have optics or anything yet Indian Army wants rails on it, lol. Our most of the soldiers have 1970s helmet, no bulletproof jacket, rifle with no optics just a few frontline dudes have.


Instead of reducing logistics issue by commonalising some ammunition, IA wants a clusterfuck of ammo as well.


Saare jahaan se achha.....

Dude, sorry but you are completely misinformed about some basic facts on small arms procurement.

• SIG 716I

Essentially it is an AR-10 (7.62x51mm NATO) rifle which is perfect for Indian Army in mountain warfare. Pakis use G3 (7.62X51mm NATO) which has greater stopping power and overall greater range than AKM (7.62X39mm) and INSAS/TAVOR/M4A1 (5.56x45mm NATO) and consequently outgun us at LOC.

Keep in mind Pakis and Chinks will use LVL III and LVL IV Armor Plates in any conflict in the next 5-6 years just like us. As LOC and LAC has shown, engagement distances will be 400m+ with the SIG 716I being overkill, having pretty decent controllable automatic fire (much better than G3, FN FAL) in CQB.




The US Military in the future will use the (6.8x43mm NATO (?)) because of the above reason. The interesting thing is that the 6.8x43mm has better ballistics than 7.62x51mm at ranges beyond 700m and is much lighter, almost by 40%, with just 20% less Kinetic Energy than 7.62x51mm.

Now here is where things get very interesting.

One of the appeals of 6.5MM is the fact the only part you need to swap to use it is the barrel on a .308 compatible bolt and magazine.

https://www.quora.com/Can-I-fire-a-...bolt-action-rifle-without-changing-the-barrel


For now 6.8x43mm is not in production anywhere so 7.62x51mm can easily do the job until the late 2020s to 2030-31-ish.

Thus as long as you have different bore barrels for the Sig 716I, you have a readymade multicaliber gun. Looks like GPL treatment by then COAS (now CDS) forced the Indian Army to make the right choice!

I will post on the CQB Carbine RFI later.

 

[not so dravidian]

2nd negative list.
-
no tanks at all.
no artillery guns
T-72,90 engines and APUs deadline until 2025.

not even MOD bureaucrats could defeat army baaboos.

DRDO will make Arjun MK2 and army will kill it just to breath the smoke out of T-14 exhaust.
army will also kill ATAGS.
just so you guys know,

ATAGS was tested for 526 kms at high altitude for mobility + fire trails, while ATHOS was tested for 23 kms
526kms vs 23 kms

why do i even bother wasting my time on army at this point.
waiting for next gen artillery gun to be tested in the year 2080. meet you guys in 60 yrs.

sorry my nibba. u wrong

not even MOD bureaucrats could defeat army baaboos.

the lobbying effort is not by army but by OFB and ELBIT!

OFB knows they won't get the whole pie due to TATA and KALYANI, so seems lobbying effort is at peak

ATAGS was tested for 526 kms at high altitude for mobility + fire trails, while ATHOS was tested for 23 kms
526kms vs 23 kms

more info on ATAGS and barrel brust

but still army too has lobby as u said

waiting for next gen artillery gun to be tested in the year 2080. meet you guys in 60 yrs.

Hope, if ATAGS doesn't get throught the scientists at ATAGS department will rejin to embarrass the gomit and OFB gandus!

ATMANIRBHAR to AAYAATPE NIRBAR ( wat ever that means, IDK just copied this phrase)

source: https://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/2021/06/athos-or-atags.html

 

[airstrike99]

sorry my nibba. u wrong


the lobbying effort is not by army but by OFB and ELBIT!

View attachment 92641


OFB knows they won't get the whole pie due to TATA and KALYANI, so seems lobbying effort is at peak


more info on ATAGS and barrel brust
View attachment 92642

but still army too has lobby as u said





Hope, if ATAGS doesn't get throught the scientists at ATAGS department will rejin to embarrass the gomit and OFB gandus!

ATMANIRBHAR to AAYAATPE NIRBAR ( wat ever that means, IDK just copied this phrase)

source: https://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/2021/06/athos-or-atags.html

isn't the barrel burst due to using 7 charges instead of recommended 6?

 

[airstrike99]

We already have indigenised engine for T72 T90 etc.

Uprated 1000 hp engine for T-72 tanks | Defence Research and Development Organisation - DRDO, Ministry of Defence, Government of India

V46 engine of 780 hp has been uprated to 1000 hp. It is extensively evaluated in test bed and in field. Currently under final stage of field trials.

www.drdo.gov.in

Further I think all of the sub system for the existing one are all locally sourced.

Good point btw.

yes we have indigenised the russian engines for T-72, 90, but why wait till 2025. maybe they have placed some order from russia. and its supposed to be completed by 2025. just a guess.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Dude, sorry but you are completely misinformed about some basic facts on small arms procurement.

• SIG 716I

Essentially it is an AR-10 (7.62x51mm NATO) rifle which is perfect for Indian Army in mountain warfare. Pakis use G3 (7.62X51mm NATO) which has greater stopping power and overall greater range than AKM (7.62X39mm) and INSAS/TAVOR/M4A1 (5.56x45mm NATO) and consequently outgun us at LOC.

Keep in mind Pakis and Chinks will use LVL III and LVL IV Armor Plates in any conflict in the next 5-6 years just like us. As LOC and LAC has shown, engagement distances will be 400m+ with the SIG 716I being overkill, having pretty decent controllable automatic fire (much better than G3, FN FAL) in CQB.




The US Military in the future will use the (6.8x43mm NATO (?)) because of the above reason. The interesting thing is that the 6.8x43mm has better ballistics than 7.62x51mm at ranges beyond 700m and is much lighter, almost by 40%, with just 20% less Kinetic Energy than 7.62x51mm.

Now here is where things get very interesting.



https://www.quora.com/Can-I-fire-a-...bolt-action-rifle-without-changing-the-barrel


For now 6.8x43mm is not in production anywhere so 7.62x51mm can easily do the job until the late 2020s to 2030-31-ish.

Thus as long as you have different bore barrels for the Sig 716I, you have a readymade multicaliber gun. Looks like GPL treatment by then COAS (now CDS) forced the Indian Army to make the right choice!

I will post on the CQB Carbine RFI later.

Lol, yaar what I’m saying is what is use of a 7.62x51mm battle rifle when a soldier can’t aim beyond a focal limit? You need optics.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Lol, yaar what I’m saying is what is use of a 7.62x51mm battle rifle when a soldier can’t aim beyond a focal limit? You need optics.

Optics filter down from Ghatak/ Para Airborne to Infantry.

Trijicon 3.5x35 ACOG Scope

MEPRO MINI HUNTER Night Vision Sight

ARJUN LR-XII Thermal Weapon Sights

 

[FalconSlayers]

Optics filter down from Ghatak/ Para Airborne to Infantry.

Trijicon 3.5x35 ACOG Scope

MEPRO MINI HUNTER Night Vision Sight

ARJUN LR-XII Thermal Weapon Sights

Lol, infantry is far from getting optics.