DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Pandeyji]

They have stalled the Arjun

Stalled? Fuckers were actively sabotaging Arjun. It was only when DRDO installed a black box in every tank that the Arjun stopped catching fire.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Screwing is the basic human instinct - in fact the most fundamental - perpetuation of self.


No Sir, it is a discussion. I am not debating.





I never said that. Indian Army could also be at fault. The idea is to rectify.

NO NO NO NO NO NO, you turned it into debate,so please don't back now.
Because in discussions STUPID BLOODY LOSERS words are not used.
Don't know then what type of debates you were in.

 

[neeraj_]

Who defines quality? Who will ditermine quality? User or maker ?


Very loaded statement.


Then do it.
You already have 41 factories and the number is increasing.



Certainly. Forum is meant for discussion. Do it - no one has stopped you.
But if DRDO starts laying down strategy and tactics - that is not their job.
If Army starts running scientific labs and do research - that is not their job.



They can do it and they are doing that half of the world over. Look at Pakistani soldiers. But there is a condition - first they put their rifles somewhere else. You may not like that to happen in India.



New tank is emerging for competition -
http://idrw.org/meet-worlds-most-expensive-k2-black-panther-tank-offered-to-india/#more-199520

The K2 costs around $8.5 million per unit cost for comparison’s. Russia’s new T-14 Armata Russian tank costs $3.7 million, American made M1A2 Abrams costs $4.3 million and even India’s Arjun Tank per unit cost around is $7.8 million even with a limited production run of only 126 units. K2 suffers from limited production run due to which unit cost is still high. South Korean Army had an initial requirement of 680 tanks but orders were confined to only 390 units after it hit production in 2013.

why should anyone buy a useless tank at the most expensive price and then go to Tihar jail for not following financial rules. Ever heard of DPP and GFR? Army has not written those.


And who will do internal economy of scale - reduce labour, cut cost of establishment, tooling and kitting, abolish living in guest houses, cut electrcity charges, efficiency, technology upgradation.

giving lecture on economy of scale without completely understanding is not the answer.



Put that a condition of offer and let DAC decide. Nothing is hypothetical.


Mullahs did not run the administration. There were rulers and Mullahs who dd not know even how to read. Indian professional classes like brahmins ran their and British rule. I have no doubt about it.

About Kshatriay killing Brahmin, I have never heard of it. May be you can give historical instances. But what I did hear is that about Kshatrya dharma -

"namo brahmanya-devaya go-brahmana-hitaya ca
jagad-dhitaya krishnaya govindaya namo namah"

And Gita lays down :

“ Sowryam thaejo dhruthir daakshyam yuddhae chaapya palaayanam ,
daanam eeswarabhaavascha kshaatram karma swabhaavajam”. (18–43).

No one could have ruled Indians for thousands of years without the help of some Indians - be it Mr Ayer, Mr Mukherjee, Mr Nehrus or Saprus Mr Mishra or Sharma etc etc. - the Kalu Angrej. Army Officers were the only responsibility where thy did not trust anyone

Om Tat Sat.

even India’s Arjun Tank per unit cost around is $7.8 million even with a limited production run of only 126 units.

K2 suffers from limited production

Back to Back Irony ... Ki class lagadi

 

[Bleh]

General Idea What Indian Artillery can do with 48 km range of ATAGS. But would that ever be asked to do it? That is the question.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In an artillery-duel it would be able to hit Pakis along most of LOC from the plains of Kashmir valley, from closer it can take out their arty & ammo... all while staying well out of counter battery fire range.

 

[Bhadra]

Like that would have any effect. You completely lack the capacity for self-reflection & common sense. And if you really are in defence services, then you are the perfect example of why the forces should be kept away from policy-making

Russia’s new T-14 Armata Russian tank costs $3.7 million, American made M1A2 Abrams costs $4.3 million and India’s Arjun Tank per unit cost around is $7.8 million

Loot and scoot ... In the name of Indianisation ...
Put a gun on the head of Indian Army's head and tell them "tum ye Lega".....Nahin to hum hartaal kar doonga aur DFI par gaali doonga....

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Russia’s new T-14 Armata Russian tank costs $3.7 million, American made M1A2 Abrams costs $4.3 million and India’s Arjun Tank per unit cost around is $7.8 million

Loot and scoot ... In the name of Indianisation ...
Put a gun on the head of Indian Army's head and tell them "tum ye Lega".....Nahin to hum hartaal kar doonga aur DFI par gaali doonga....

First of all, Indian Arjun tank is not even developed and hence you have to include development cost. You are simply ignoring everything here and comparing old systems with current one. Do you know how much money USA spent on defence R&D for past 70 years

 

[garg_bharat]

First of all, Indian Arjun tank is not even developed and hence you have to include development cost. You are simply ignoring everything here and comparing old systems with current one. Do you know how much money USA spent on defence R&D for past 70 years

Well sources say that indigenous content of arjun is less than t90.

Arjun may be a better tank but poor economic case.

Army prefers t90.

I think this duel will be eventually resolved in actual battle. Till then let's not worry.

 

[Bhadra]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In an artillery-duel it would be able to hit Pakis along most of LOC from the plains of Kashmir valley, from closer it can take out their arty & ammo... all while staying well out of counter battery fire range.

Counter bombardment is only aimed to force enemy guns to cease fire but it is only a measure of temporary effect. It would be very rare that a gun is destroyed in CB fires. Redeployment, burst firing, rapid firing and subsequent shifting of Guns are some of the measures taken to avoid CB fire.

Indian and Pakistani guns have been firing on LC for more than decades but you would have rarely heard of casualties suffered at gun positions due to Counter Bombardment.

Counter Bombardment is not the only threat to guns. There are physical threat of raids on gun positions by enemy troops, SF, terrorists and sabotage. Destruction and obstruction of ammunition supply chain, air raids, missile and rocket fires are some other threats.

Ranges more than enemy guns is certainly advantageous but is only one of the many measures to avoid enemy artillery fires on guns positions. But guns usually do not fire at maximum ranges - ammunition becomes more expensive, heat in barrel and chamber will be excessive leading to more cooling periods and more dispersion at target end leading to increased inaccuracy.

Counter bombardment is a separate dedicated task for guns as guns meant for such a task then are unable to take part in dedicated fire support operations.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Because production agency cannot produce enough number of guns.

Plus safer to have two concurrent production lines. It is healthy competition plus insurance against defects found in field.

Athos in proven product while as dhanush has cleared trial but not field proven.

Athos is proven and so is Dhanush. Trials are not some joke. Over 5000 rounds have been fired at extreme conditions and is definitely a proof for quality.

Dhanush is having good quality. It makes no sense to import Athos when there is indigenous option. Athos will not be fully indigenous and hence calling it as second production line is absurd

Well sources say that indigenous content of arjun is less than t90.

Arjun may be a better tank but poor economic case.

Army prefers t90.

I think this duel will be eventually resolved in actual battle. Till then let's not worry.

Yes that is because prototype have low indigenisation and use off the shelf parts for trials. But that is the first step to indigenisation. There is no need to call Arjun as expensive or imported just on the basis of prototype.

 

[Bhadra]

Army's Requirement of 155 Howitzer system​

Any new system that is selected is expected to:

1. Allow for engagements at the greatest range possible.
2. Allow automatic high angle and 360º traverse capability.
3. Allow flexibility of employment (including in the direct fire role and NBC environment).
4. Allow maximum flexibility in tactical deployment and inter-sector movement.
5. Allow for ease of maintenance and economy of operations.
6. Be affordable


Here point 4 and 5 are what is being debated.

Flexibility in tactical deployment and inter-sector movement
​

Flexibility of deployment and movement is determined by four things:

Cross-country capability,
Combat Weight,
Dimensions and last, but not the least, weapon performance in different terrain.
Combat weight remains an important consideration…. In particular most bridges in the potential areas of deployment are not stressed for such heavy loads. The dimensions of systems remain a concern as far as transportation.

ATGS is not on top in terms of weight and cost, in fact it fails there. Why are you guys crying ? Reduce the weight and cut the cost.

Weight of the gun can be reduced but weight of your ego is the obstacle - Manu koi Na ...... Ham kisi se kam nahin (a reservationists fundamental flaw)

 

[Bhadra]

Athos is proven and so is Dhanush. Trials are not some joke. Over 5000 rounds have been fired at extreme conditions and is definitely a proof for quality.

Dhanush is having good quality. It makes no sense to import Athos when there is indigenous option. Athos will not be fully indigenous and hence calling it as second production line is absurd



Yes that is because prototype have low indigenisation and use off the shelf parts for trials. But that is the first step to indigenisation. There is no need to call Arjun as expensive or imported just on the basis of prototype.

Aapko 45 aur 152 caliber men koi faraq nazar nahi aata.. Phir Scientist ka naukariya chhor do. Baki Tiwari ki tarah politics join kar lo. Idhar kyon politics karate ho ?
Army has asked for 152 caliber .. Period.
Make Dhanus of 152 caliber and then talk.

 

[Enquirer]

152 caliber?
Some zero caliber posts on this thread!!
Some guys have a serious ailment - BS with confidence!

 

[Bhadra]

Well sources say that indigenous content of arjun is less than t90.

Arjun may be a better tank but poor economic case.

Army prefers t90.

I think this duel will be eventually resolved in actual battle. Till then let's not worry.

yes , in real battle Arjun will never cross first line of obstcles (68 tons)..
To larai kya larega...
They have deliberatly made a tank which should not participate in a battle but keep giving them 7.8 billions a piece..

What I am most miffed at is that they have brought disrepute to such a famous name - Arjun. They have deliberately conspired to demolish an Indian legend - ARJUN.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Aapko 45 aur 152 caliber men koi faraq nazar nahi aata.. Phir Scientist ka naukariya chhor do. Baki Tiwari ki tarah politics join kar lo. Idhar kyon politics karate ho ?
Army has asked for 152 caliber .. Period.
Make Dhanus of 152 caliber and then talk.

Correction: It is not 152 caliber. It is 53 caliber

Also, there is not much of an advantage of using 52 caliber over 45. So, indigenous 45mm is much better than imported 52mm anyday. It is not that the range difference of Dhanush (38km) & AHOS (40+km) is a big deal. There is hardly any reason to import merely for difference in caliber.

 

[Bhadra]

152 caliber?
Some zero caliber posts on this thread!!
Some guys have a serious ailment - BS with confidence!

Yes, in this well informed and enlightened discussion by now every one knows that 155mm Howitzers that are under discussion are of 39,45 and 52 caliber. The length of barrel in proportion to diameter of the gun barrel is also called is part of "caliber". Now you wish to dance over a typo ? Babu ... ??

Now buzz off and do not show off your caliber. Reservation wala hai kya??

 

[Enquirer]

yes , in real battle Arjun will never cross first line of obstcles (68 tons)..
To larai kya larega...
They have deliberatly made a tank which should not participate in a battle but keep giving them 7.8 billions a piece..

What I am most miffed at is that they have brought disrepute to such a famous name - Arjun. They have deliberately conspired to demolish an Indian legend - ARJUN.

Indian army's specific requirement was 4 man crew!
Show me ONE modern tank in on planet earth that has 4 man crew and is less than 62 tons!!
(let me give you a head start in your nascent googling effort on the topic ....M1Abrams, Leopard, Merkava are the top-class 4-man crew tanks....)

Just because you can type doesn't mean you know the a subject well!!!

 

[Enquirer]

Yes, in this well informed and enlightened discussion by now every one knows that 155mm Howitzers that are under discussion are of 139,145 and 152 caliber. The length of barrel in proprtion to diameter of the gun barrel is also called is part of "caliber".

Now buzz off and do not show off your caliber. Reservation wala hai kya??

So the length of Dhanush gun is 145 times its diameter?????? and ATAGS length is 152 times its diameter???

Why do you keep making a fool of yourself on this forum........while at the same time confusing/misinforming members??????????

 

[Bhadra]

So the length of Dhanush gun is 145 times its diameter?????? and ATAGS length is 152 times its diameter???

Why do you keep making a fool of yourself on this forum........while at the same time confusing/misinforming members??????????

Are you Babus that you can not make out a typo and wish to dance over it ?
Have you ever read Psychology?
There is one abnormility called "Now I have caught you SOB" ...
You all seem to suffer from it...
Read "What Do You Say After You Say Hello "
and Eric Burn - I am OK You are Ok...
Sayad sudhar jaao.

 

[Bhadra]

I have started feeling that most you you guys are Babus in OFB or DRDO who know nothing but discuss like trade union and gangsters ... lay down national policies, strategy and dictate tactics, gloat over pretty things and come to give your frustration.

Make use of anonymity of web and write down some filth, then feel satisfied with that.

Look where have you all taken the thread to? What are we discussing in last ten pages ?

Baba Ji Ka Thulu...

 

[Bhadra]

Indian army's specific requirement was 4 man crew!
Show me ONE modern tank in on planet earth that has 4 man crew and is less than 62 tons!!
(let me give you a head start in your nascent googling effort on the topic ....M1Abrams, Leopard, Merkava are the top-class 4-man crew tanks....)

Just because you can type doesn't mean you know the a subject well!!!

I do not have to show you anything.
DRDO was told to develop a 4 man crew Medium tank under 60 tons.
If it was not possible, DRDO should have refused to make it.
Rather than trying to make a Leopard over 60 ton tank or M1A1 which was not asked for and then "cheppo" it with Rona Dhona" on the Army...
The problem is that DRDO / OFB do not have to pay for their child plays from their pockets ?
So keep making that meets their fancies at 7.8 million a piece - costliest tank in the world which will be a dud in battle.

Army asked for a tank not an elephant.