DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Bhadra]

It has superb range..and weight is not an issue for plains and deserts where it will be used.

# Super range - with enlarged chamber -25 liters -leads to more chamber pressure, safety issue, recoil issues and differences in parts with other guns.

# Enhanced Weight - 3 ton more than other guns. After all mobility of guns is a substantial issue besides the issue of commonality of parts. It is not correct to say that three ton more will not reduce mobility.

These two issues may need to be resolved. It needs to be ascertained how many parts are dissimilar from other guns . I think ATAGS might have to wait for some more time.

 

[Aghore_King]

ATAGS is heavier by three tons. Chamber is also very large. It has many other problems - primary being mobility. Unlikely to be ordered.

Soldiers don't have to carry it by hand, Army can order feild artillery tractors from Ashok Leyland, Tata or Mahindra's.

 

[Bhadra]

That is exactly the type of gun is necessary. If it's our own, we could use it anywhere without care.

There are no condition imposed by any country on use of the proposed and approved guns. So all can do PKMAB. Is DRDO giving ATAGS without IP rights and not charging for development ? I think it is not coming free. It in fact have highest cost.

Should buyer (MoD) have some love reserved for it?

 

[Bhadra]

Soldiers don't have to carry it by hand, Army can order feild artillery tractors from Ashok Leyland, Tata or Mahindra's.

Agreed. but it has to be carried (towed) and three tons more on sandy patch, wet surface, mud, snow, bridges capacity, track classification do matter. It is equivalent to towing two Maruti Gypsies more.
Pinky Chaudhary can not be requested to go and help the soldiers in pushing it.

 

[Aghore_King]

Agreed. but it has to be carried (towed) and three tons more on sandy patch, wet surface, mud, snow, bridges capacity, track classification do matter.
Pinky Chaudhary can not be requested to go and help the soldiers in pushing it.

Sir, i will be more than happy to help the soldiers pushing it if they need my help.
My question is Army should have known during the design phase that the gun is overweighted, why didn't they raised issues that time, why they waited for design phase to be completed to complain about its weight.

 

[Bhadra]

Sir, i will be more than happy to help the soldiers pushing it if they need my help.
My question is Army should have known during the design phase that the gun is overweighted, why didn't they raised issues that time, why they waited for design phase to be completed to complain about its weight.

I am really not aware of Army's control over the design but mistakes can occur at various levels and by various agencies.

More weight means - there are bound to be differences in some parts from other gun. That is another problem.

 

[porky_kicker]

How does this thing actually work.
Have they made a prototype or are they waiting for government investment to Make the first prototype.

No idea , possibly collaboration with PSUs

 

[Kay]

# Super range - with enlarged chamber -25 liters -leads to more chamber pressure, safety issue, recoil issues and differences in parts with other guns.

# Enhanced Weight - 3 ton more than other guns. After all mobility of guns is a substantial issue besides the issue of commonality of parts. It is not correct to say that three ton more will not reduce mobility.

These two issues may need to be resolved. It needs to be ascertained how many parts are dissimilar from other guns . I think ATAGS might have to wait for some more time.

Enlarged chamber gives greater range. What is the need to have commonality with other guns? Do every other guns have common parts?
Enhanced weight is because of enlarged chamber and 6 round magazine instead of 3 offered by current Bofors and Athos. This means more rounds can be fired in the first 30 seconds resulting in maximum kills before enemy can take cover.
For a gun system to be used in plains, the weight of 18 tons instead of 15 should not be a problem. Even the excuse of bridges will not work this time.
This opposition to a world class gun system seek of desperation - these guys will do just anything for import.

 

[Kay]

There are no condition imposed by any country on use of the proposed and approved guns. So all can do PKMAB. Is DRDO giving ATAGS without IP rights and not charging for development ? I think it is not coming free. It in fact have highest cost.

Should buyer (MoD) have some love reserved for it?

I don't think you understand how IP rights work. Also, I hope you understand IPIP righ held by DRDO is helpful to India than by some foreign entity. IP rights have very little to do with production cost.

 

[Adrian Corvus]

I was checking out the DRDO official website when I found a project named 'Bhima' with the 'a'. Closest I could think of is the Bhim howitzer... are they the same?
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/index.jsp?pg=majorproduct.jsp

 

[Bhadra]

Enlarged chamber gives greater range.

Did I say it does not ?

What is the need to have commonality with other guns? Do every other guns have common parts?

Logistics and ease in maintenance. Similar gun caliber and similar carriage system should have maximum common parts - say 155/52 towed gun category. in NATO they try and achieve commonality of parts even between systems produced in different countries,

Enhanced weight is because of enlarged chamber and 6 round magazine instead of 3 offered by current Bofors and Athos. This means more rounds can be fired in the first 30 seconds resulting in maximum kills before enemy can take cover.

That argument does not reduce weight. Weight still remains over by three tons.

For a gun system to be used in plains, the weight of 18 tons instead of 15 should not be a problem. Even the excuse of bridges will not work this time.

The user will decide that not tha maker.

This opposition to a world class gun system seek of desperation - these guys will do just anything for import.

if user has problems that will have to be rectified or you keep it and go and use the gun the way you want. Its class is meant for its functional utility. I suggest you sell the gun in the world since it is world class.

By the way I am no where near the user and all is part of discussion only.

 

[Bhadra]

I don't think you understand how IP rights work. Also, I hope you understand IPIP righ held by DRDO is helpful to India than by some foreign entity. IP rights have very little to do with production cost.

I really do not but I have no hesitation to understand that from you. So start..

 

[Chinmoy]

I was checking out the DRDO official website when I found a project named 'Bhima' with the 'a'. Closest I could think of is the Bhim howitzer... are they the same?
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/index.jsp?pg=majorproduct.jsp

Yes... Those are same.

Please enter a message with at least 30 characters.

 

[Archer]

The HPR was originally meant to be an "open acquisition". But after Arudhra development, it seems to have become an IDDM program led by DRDO.

Model of HPR ..................

I thought LRDE had developed the same , there was a PDF too with details , so why is IAI involved ?

View attachment 34245

Picture credit delhidefencereview Flickr page,
https://www.flickr.com/photos/delhidefencereview/albums , plz visit and subscribe to show support.

 

[Archer]

DRDO has progressed on development of 100 kilowatt solid state laser system to destroy missiles in the boost phase.

Plus work on S band MILO for HPM has gone to next stage ( don't know what next stage means ). Previously i posted here pic of the DRDO experimental S band MILO setup.

Can you please post more on the MILO and the 100kw SSL system. Cant see your posts as you have hidden your profile and we can't look at posts via that.

 

[Archer]

Like hell !

Another 30 years and DRDO will not deliver any MPATGM.
If delivered it will have 700 meters as minimum range and it will not reach near the target due to "temperature".
This system has all the makings of meeting INSAS fate.
It is better for DRDO to focus on hitting the Mars rather than a tank !
The missile hitting Mars will not be tested by Army, so there would not be any problem. Some Padma awards may also follow.

Are you genuinely this immature? Or are you just play-acting?
Here is the Spike and its wonderful response to "temperature".
https://southfront.org/field-experiences-spike-atgm-system/

 

[Archer]

Sancho is an ignorant tool. Looks like the defence enthusiast version of Dhruv Rathee, based out of Germany of all places. Ignore him.

Su-30 MKI has a jam resistant radio set up & datalink capability integrated from the start. MiG-31, and then the Su-30 K were all designed for long range VVS patrol so have this sort of setup.

However, by today's standards, its a limited set up as it cannot share large sized files etc & is only meant for sharing specific tactical data for the fighters to work as a pack.

The SDR will add a datalink developed by the IAF on top of it, and will bring the capabilities to a different level.

View attachment 34351

I had previously posted this pic and which was then posted on twitter where as usual some ' knowledgeable Indians ' were peddling bullshitting . I want to clarify , if the above said network centric features are incorporated into LCA MK1A , then after rafale it will be the only fighter aircraft to possess such network centric capabilities like self forming and healing , multi hop automatic relay / routing, QoS etc.

One comedian named Sancho was saying such network centric capabilities are present in jf17 , lol even Chinese fighters don't have such advanced network centric features.

Also SU30MKI does not possess such features , it never had a SDR, procurement for the Software Defined Radio (SDR)/Operational Data Link (ODL) project was signed on July 2017 for Israeli BNET-AR. And AFAIK I don't think they are operational as of now , few may have been installed though. It is a very time consuming process.

 

[Bhadra]

Is this BFSR - MR interlinked to Project SHAKTI - (TA3CI) Network of Artillery developed by DRDO / BEL and handed over to India Army ?
https://www.business-standard.com/a...ery-combat-system-to-army-109061300065_1.html

Or is it part of Project SANJAY ?

"BEL is also involved in the design, development and supply of other Tac C3I systems like Command Information & Decision Support System (CIDSS) - Samvahak; battlefield surveillance system — Sanjay; and air defence control and reporting — Asystem kash Teer."

Any one - know well owls ?

 

[Bhadra]

Ok I was able to get something:
http://www.spslandforces.com/experts-speak/?id=276&h=Army-s-BSS-Still-hiccupping
Army's BSS – Still hiccupping
By Lt. General P.C. Katoch (Retd) August 21, 2017

By Lt. General P.C. Katoch (Retd)
Former Director General of Information Systems, Indian Army


Battlefield surveillance relates to the ability to obtain real or near-real time all weather picture of battle space. This encompasses human intelligence (HUMINT), technology related imagery intelligence (IMINT) and signal or communication intelligence (SIGINT) together with intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR). The basic concept of battlefield intelligence is to obtain knowledge of the battle space enabling detection of changes to interpret intention, actions and deployment of the enemy, to enable pre-emptive action. Indian Army's Battlefield Surveillance System (BSS), named 'SANJAY', was conceived to develop an automated system with dedicated intra-communication, which involves integration of surveillance sensors at Division and Corps level on a customized Geographical Information System (GIS) platform with multi sensor data fusion undertaken at the Surveillance Centre for providing inputs to the Command Information and Decision Support System (CIDSS). The requirements at Brigade level were included later in 2008. Phase 1 involved provision of the concept by developing a test bed system, which has been completed and operational validation accorded. The system was developed on turnkey basis by BEL in collaboration with Centre for Artificial Intelligence and Robotics (CAIR).

Phase 2 of Project Sanjay involves equipping all Corps of the Army after successful completion of 'proving phase'. Responsibility for development of the system in Phase 2 is also with BEL and is behind schedule by many years. As per initial plan, equipping was to commence in 2010 after the 'proving phase', however, BEL has been facing problems in the development, akin to the case of the Artillery Command, Control and Communications System (ACCCS) of limited indigenous capacity in applications, design and software customization though bulk hardware and technology was imported. Later, it was hoped that the test bed for 'proving phase' of Phase 2 was to get going by mid 2012 and the complete fielding pan-Army was to be completed by year 2017 but has not taken off yet. Meanwhile, the Army introduced another battlefield communication system for use on the Line of Control (LoC) as also other tactical and operational situations in August 2016; by developing its own 3G network-based technology where smartphones could be used to capture and share live images and videos for operational purposes. The upgraded 3G version named Mobile Cellular Communication System (MCCS) was launched in the Srinagar-based Corps. MCCS is a cellular system and offers enhanced security, better voice quality and high data rates.

 

[Bhadra]

Project Sanjay....contd

As per media, quoting Army sources, sharing images and videos could be done only by using a monitor which is connected to the internet through optical fibre, which has limited scope but makes it possible to share images using smart handsets. MCCS is reportedly secure and dependable since it uses Arm's own algorithm. This system also aids Army's Long Range Reconnaissance and Observation System (LORROS). For Phase 2 of Project Sanjay, the Army was to supply vehicle, which is part of the contract between the MoD and BeL. However, this has not been done so far. While the deliberations continued, last year Tata Motors bagged an additional order for supply of 619 numbers of 6x6 High Mobility Vehicles (HMVs), multi-axle vehicle with material handling cranes, for the Indian Army, which was the single largest order to an Indian private Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM). This was a follow on order to an earlier order received by Tata Motors in year 2016 for 1,239 such HMVs. The Army has now identified this 6x6 HMV as the vehicle required for the BSS. The Directorate General of Information Systems (DGIS) has written to the Master General of Ordnance (MGO) to procure the vehicles. How much time the MGO Branch will require to complete the procurement process is not known. However, once the vehicles are procured and handed over to BEL, the requirement will be to mount the system onto the vehicle and produce a prototype. How much time BEL would take to do so is not known. The prototype, once developed, will then need to undergo extensive trials including its integration with the CIDSS which too has not been fully developed and fielded yet. It is only after these trials are successful that the fielding of the BSS pan-Army can commence; completion of which could well take anything up to a decade or more. The irony in all this is that technology is developing at such fast pace that information systems get outdated before a two-year period elapses. The danger always is that instead of state-of-the-art systems being provisioned, older systems can be provided to make additional money through 'upgrades' moment the system is fully fielded, and this has happened on earlier occasions.


Prime Minister's office