DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[SilentlAssassin265]

So Akash range now becomes 70-80km.

Man DRDO playing with us

It's akash ng

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

Can anyone clearify how many zorawars will be ordered first and for how many orders do they have to fight for with other tanks.

2 prototypes and after testing it for 6.9 years 15 lsp.
After theat it will rejected for being overweight

 

[Aditya Ballal]

BEML HMV 8x8, with an Armoured Cab.

 

[Tridev123]

So I wasted a couple of good hours on this and just wanted to say this out loud here.
This whole ADE fanboys on the internet including the Beta offence gang seem to be twisting up their panties on the cancellation of the Tapas drone.

When confronted with the truth that Tapas Drone has failed to meet the SQRs they claim that this is an import lobby conspiracy since "there is no drone in the world that uses a piston engine flies above 25000ft".

When confronted with the example of drones like Heron and Hermes they claim these numbers are made up and there is absolutely no way "a drone with piston engine can fly above 25000ft"

As evidence to buttress this argument, they use this spec sheet
View attachment 236219

They claim since the engine "Can't operate beyond 23000 feet" such a drone is impossible.
Now I was initially not that interested in this argument because I wanted to make the point that for an ISR drone the endurance is much more important. Also using twin engines already makes Tapas more expensive than Heron. So I debated with Alpha defence.

First he seems to be fixated on altitude argument, then later when I side stepped it and focused on the endurance he came up with a weird number that 27l/hr is the fuel consumption rate of rotax engine in "ECO MODE" and somehow seemed to argue that this was the minimum fuel consumption rate as well.

This didn't make sense to me, so I digged around and found the operating manual of the rotax engine
here is the link for you guys

https://rotax.my.salesforce-sites.com/DocumentsSearch/sfc/servlet.shepherd/version/download/0685c00000OfB0RAAV?asPdf=false

Now here is the funny thing I found in this manual "23000ft" is the SAFE max operating altitude. This didn't mean the engine will suddenly shut down beyond this altitude
Take a look at this graph from the operating manual the power hasn't significantly degraded by 23000ft but it makes sense to call it the "SAFE max operating altitude" as this engine is often used by piloted aircraft and there is a risk of engine stalling in unsafe regime. Even a piloted aircraft may accidentally enter an unsafe regime it just needs to quickly return to a safe regime. This shouldn't be much of a risk for drones to begin with.
View attachment 236221

Second I looked at the fuel consumption and here I found another hole in argument that the endurance can't be 24 hours as fuel burn at eco mode will be 27l/hour. It gets rediculous
This is the fuel flow to power graph from the manual.
View attachment 236222onl

Not only you can throttle down fuel consumption way below 27l/hour but theoretically, you can throttle it down to 10l/hr. Which I imagine could be used during cruising. The eco mode is just the most efficient fuel burn rate. As in the rate at which the maximum amount of power is generated per kg of fuel burned.

View attachment 236223

Since Last 2 weeks the whole so-called Defence experts and defenders of indigenous development have been beating their chest for the failure of Tapas blaming everyone but the design agency that came up with a thoroughly inefficient design. ADE an organisation which seems to me like the naughty PhD student of the lab that the mentor just somehow wants to produce a passable thesis and then just graduate.

The Mentor (DRDO) is now so desperate that it is stealing data from a good-performing student(ADA) and giving it to this dumbass so that he can write at least one publishable paper. context

Ghatak UCAV's 1st Director Raises Concerns Over Program's Path - Livefist

By BIJU UTHUPFounding Project Director, GHATAK Building on the success of the LCA Tejas program, the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) embarked on a new frontier, setting its sights on the development of advanced variants and cutting-edge projects such as the 5th Generation Advanced Medium...

www.livefistdefence.com

Want to know your opinion. I am Sick coughing my lungs out. But pissed off at this new moralizing catastrophising indigenous brigade according to which DRDO is somehow this golden thing that can never do anything wrong when we know that the organisation is made up of several labs. Some of them are excellent. Others are busy making MREs and Hand sanitiser depending on their flights of fancy.

They tie all this into a bigger argument Don't Reform DRDO if you do that India will never make anything indigenous. Somehow I don't buy their argument. Thoughts?

Bro, you have done quite a bit of searching on the net.
Appreciate the effort.
But you are missing the trees for the woods.

I don't think all of us are out there carrying a flag for the ADE.
If in reality ADE is non performing, let's modify it for the better or let it die.

Now most of us would ideally want Indian designed and Indian manufactured weapons. Is that objective wrong?.
Now whether ADE succeeds or another organisation/company in the public/private sector succeeds is immaterial. It should be ideally an fully indigenous effort and product.

You don't want ADE. Fine. But another Indian entity should develop it.

Why always have orgasms on foreign weapon systems. Extolling their superiority.

It is a fucking reality that at this point in time most Indian weapon systems will not match Western analogues. So should we feel ashamed and retreat into a corner.

Should we abandon all or most indigenous weapons development programmes and induct only foreign weapons for eternity.

Bloody hell. You can never develop an indigenous Military Industrial Complex if you do not support indigenous weapons. Even if they are only 75% as capable as Western or Russian weapon platforms. They should be developed and bought in enough numbers. For long term strategic autonomy purposes.

Indian indigenous weapons will also match the specifications of the best Western weapons. Give it a decade or two. It is work in progress.

Try to learn from the Chinese. They never abandoned their indigenous defence industry.

Also it is a fact that the West led by the Americans and even the Russians to a certain extent will not want India to become fully independent in designing and manufacturing advanced weapon systems. They would want us to be permanently dependent on imported weapons.

And it is no figment of imagination that sometimes hostile intelligence agencies will try to sabotage any Indian R&D effort that will make India more self sufficient in key technologies. By various methods including disinformation. By discrediting the performance of our scientific community.

That is why many people are suspicious of any concerted attempt to denigrate an Indian research institution.

To put it simply. Fuck the ADE. But let L&T or the Tatas etc design and develop an Tapas equivalent UAV. It should be an Indian effort.

Are we like the Pakistanis who always salivate on imported weapons and give it an Muslim name and paint it in green colour. Why?. Because they can never develop an equivalent indigenous alternative.

I would like to believe that we are leagues ahead of the Pakistanis in science and technology.

Having said that I do accept that some times India simply might not have the present scientific capability to design and manufacture some advanced weapons. And hence some imports are unavoidable. Ok. But we should try to develop indigenous alternatives in the shortest possible time.

I believe that you also will support India achieving strategic independence. Nobody is batting for the ADE. We are batting for India.

 

[johnj]

Why IA considers as the major buyer of DRDO/Indian MALE drone in future ??

 

[SKC]

View attachment 236202

Expect something like this , just the base will be smaller

This looks like something coming from EU market!!
Contempri and up to date design!

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[ezsasa]

ever since anantha krishnan has come back from his sabbatical, it has been a wild ride for fanboys.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

ever since anantha krishnan has come back from his sabbatical, it has been a wild ride for fanboys.

Aab just waiting what will be cancelled next and imported.

 

[Blademaster]

Why can't we learn this simple truth? The only way to succeed is to keep failing and learning from such failures and keep at it until you reach success. It is called failing up to success.

Let's keep on supporting ADE and push them to learn from their failures and keep trying (and failing) until they achieve success. Don't be a heartless bastard and orphan your kid just because he didn't succeed on his first try.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Someone send this to that magazine guy keeps yapping they both are same it just dissrepescts all the hard work done by our scientists. Now wishing this project luck will have its test flight this month.

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

Someone send this to that magazine guy keeps yapping they both are same it just dissrepescts all the hard work done by our scientists. Now wishing this project luck will have its test flight this month.

Archer NG looks like an product benchmarked against Heron MK2. Hope this will work out since the specs are nearly identical along with some improvement.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Archer NG looks like an product benchmarked against Heron MK2. Hope this will work out since the specs are nearly identical along with some improvement.

I hope it outdoes mk2 so the import lobby can fuck off.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Ye kab hua

 

[Anupu]

Bro, you have done quite a bit of searching on the net.
Appreciate the effort.
But you are missing the trees for the woods.

I don't the...

I agree with your sentiment, but we need to be rational about it. DRDO needs reform. This new narrative that reforming DRDO means an end to indigenous products. I don't buy it. There are genuine inefficiencies in that organisation. Also, it seems to me that they need to use the DCPP model a lot more frequently.

Moreover, License production with 100% tech transfer can be good too, after all, Hermes gives you another manufacturer of drones. Manufacturing and Design both are important. China didn't just make what we call "IDDM" most of the time. Sometimes they just buy the design off the shelf (Lavi -> J10) or purchase IPR for certain components, they do license production and then reverse-engineering, etc. They did all this to build up the manufacturing capacity of their companies. Indian PSU also become capable of manufacturing weapons by license production.

 

[SUPERPOWER]

Ye kab hua

Hua voh hi bohot badi baat hai aur hoga kyo nahi maal bhi to phoren hai..

 

[Anupu]

Let's keep on supporting ADE and push them to learn from their failures and keep trying (and failing) until they achieve success. Don't be a heartless bastard and orphan your kid just because he didn't succeed on his first try.

It was not the first time.
Nishant, Panchi, Imperial Eagle, Rustom1, Rustom2, Tapas,. Even to a certain extent Nirbhay. Now DRDO transfers Ghatak from ADA to them. I am fine with them building Archer NG if they fail there. There is no problem, we have alternatives. But GHATAK? Will they finish it this time?

 

[ezsasa]

Since ADA - ADE is in news , got curious and checked their charter..

ADA – Function & Responsibility
ADA is responsible for:
• Co-ordinated management of full range activities leading to development of advance technology flight vehicles
• Promoting development of a national base in Aeronautics Design & development

tasks assigned:
• Tejas-AF Mark 1 until Final Operational Clearance (FOC) and type certification
• Tejas(Navy) Mark 1 & Mark 2 until its operational clearance
• Tejas –AF Mark2 until its operational clearance
• AMCA –until its operational clearance

ADE charter
1. Research and Development of Advanced Aeronautical Systems.
2. Design & Development of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) & Aerial Targets.
3. Stealth Shaping Designs and Development of Flight Simulators
4. To create Necessary Infrastructure & Test Facilities for R&D and LSP, as applicable.
5. To generate all the necessary documentation.
6. To support upgrades throughout product Life Cycle.
7. To utilise technologies developed by other labs.
8. To develop the Spin-Off technologies.
9. To provide support and work with Govt. Agencies, Academia and Industry.
10. To undertake Life Assessment and Extension activities, wherever required

ADA charter
https://www.ada.gov.in/ --> about us

ADE charter

https://www.drdo.gov.in/labs-establishment/lab-charter/aeronautical-development-establishment-ade

 

[rone]

Archer NG looks like an product benchmarked against Heron MK2. Hope this will work out since the specs are nearly identical along with some improvement.

As a first person who said Archer ng is heron mk2, yes it is heron mk2 mod( heron TP) variant not valina heron mk2, to be precise heron mk2 proposed German variant

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

As a first person who said Archer ng is heron mk2, yes it is heron mk2 mod( heron TP) variant not valina heron mk2, to be precise heron mk2 proposed German variant

Yea that's why DRDO is involved that's why DRDO studied twin boom design for so long right, that's why hal is offering ur VANILA heron mk2 with IAI