DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Narasimh]

Now MRCA can rest in peace

The number of aircrafts getting retired will have more than enough chance to offset this order and give way for mmrca to still go on. Another 2 squads of rafale will come at minimum

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

But why, 50 more makes sense, we can match Pakistani JF 17's pound for pound with that but what are we going to do with the rest of the 50 aircrafts where are we going to use them, certainly not the Chinese as J10s will be an overmatch for mk1a

I think they will be considering mk1a for CATS too

 

[NeXoft007]

Rafale's offset obligations won't make sense if no more Rafales are ordered. Cuz original plan by NDA was to make it in India later. We can't say for sure what's being worked out now. But there's sleek possibility of Rafale's F4 & F5 DNA been inserted in OMCA & TEDBF if no more are ordered. Engine won't be an issue since F414 would be used here.

If this step's taken, it would take atleast 5 years from now. Also, new Rafales if ordered as take away, won't be arriving before 5 years either since Dassault's log is fully packed.

 

[karn]

80 million per bird or is this including tax

 

[Javelin_Sam]

Things going in the direction I expected if the 100 mk1a news is true. Our entire border airspace from Gujarat to Arunachal is a hot border. The number of jets needed for CAP and standby are only going to increase and IAF has seen the writing on the wall that larger aircrafts like Rafale and Su-30 will break bank for the task.
Tejas family is suited for this. Single engine, high availability, less OPEX, AESA, Jammer pods, BVR, IFR.
We need to replace 80 Bisons, 48 Mirages, 100 Jaguars, 68 Mig 29 : - close to 300 fighters and then achieve 42 squadrons.
Also I fully expect a 72-90 Rafale order for IAF

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

80 million per bird or is this including tax

Think this includes spares, maintenance and alot of other stuff probably.

 

[NeXoft007]

Rafale's offset obligations won't make sense if no more Rafales are ordered. Cuz original plan by NDA was to make it in India later. We can't say for sure what's being worked out now. But there's sleek possibility of Rafale's F4 & F5 DNA been inserted in OMCA & TEDBF if no more are ordered. Engine won't be an issue since F414 would be used here.

If this step's taken, it would take atleast 5 years from now. Also, new Rafales if ordered as take away, won't be arriving before 5 years either since Dassault's log is fully packed.

Why the step logically sounds better, cuz making Rafales in India would mean tedious ToT of old M88 that's gonna cost more & create more complexity. We already have a deal with GE to make F414s here, which have better output than M88. So, with France, we could just stick with them making a whole new engine for AMCA Mk. 2, and get their Rafale F4 & F5 techs onboard F414 powered OMCA & TEDBF.

 

[johnj]

Why the step logically sounds better, cuz making Rafales in India would mean tedious ToT of old M88 which would well cost more & create more complexity. We already have a deal with GE to make F414s here, which have better output than M88. So, with France, we could just stick with them making a whole new engine, and get their Rafale uprated techs onboard F414 powered OMCA & TEDBF.

Currently there is no OMCA
France is asking around 6+ billion for JV
There is a agreement and MoU to make F414 in India, but not a deal.

 

[NeXoft007]

Currently there is no OMCA
France is asking around 6+ billion for JV
There is a agreement and MoU to make F414 in India, but not a deal.

I know. Things are being worked out, we all will eventually know what's being planned out.

But Navy do wants IAF onboard for joint collaboration of OMCA & DB-OMCA.

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

I know. Things are being worked out, we all will eventually know what's being planned out.

But Navy do wants IAF onboard for joint collaboration of OMCA & DB-OMCA.

Navy tries to lower the price of TEDBF by asking IAF to adopt its airforce variants. But IAF is still courting for Rafale for the simple reason that TEDBF is still on paper and IAF already loosing its squadron strength.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

I know. Things are being worked out, we all will eventually know what's being planned out.

But Navy do wants IAF onboard for joint collaboration of OMCA & DB-OMCA.

What's a DB-OMCA

 

[NeXoft007]

Navy tries to lower the price of TEDBF by asking IAF to adopt its airforce variants. But IAF is still courting for Rafale for the simple reason that TEDBF is still on paper and IAF already loosing its squadron strength.

Yes
If IAF gets onboard, the product would be developed faster and procured at a cheaper rate. Get France as a consultant and collaborator here with their Rafale Offsets. F414 production would get cheaper too with LCA Mk. 2, OMCA, TEDBF & AMCA Mk. 1.

Making Rafales here would not be economical, and also Dassault refused to accept so many conditions set by India like manhours, production quality etc. It's basically a waste of time, adding more complexity woes and shedding more money.

 

[NeXoft007]

What's a DB-OMCA

The DB in TEDBF. Same thing.

 

[NeXoft007]

Things going in the direction I expected if the 100 mk1a news is true. Our entire border airspace from Gujarat to Arunachal is a hot border. The number of jets needed for CAP and standby are only going to increase and IAF has seen the writing on the wall that larger aircrafts like Rafale and Su-30 will break bank for the task.
Tejas family is suited for this. Single engine, high availability, less OPEX, AESA, Jammer pods, BVR, IFR.
We need to replace 80 Bisons, 48 Mirages, 100 Jaguars, 68 Mig 29 : - close to 300 fighters and then achieve 42 squadrons.
Also I fully expect a 72-90 Rafale order for IAF

Trust me most of those old fighter jets aren't going anywhere. They would be overhauled and upgraded.

 

[standard snowball]

I think the idea is to let all these Mk-1a be deployed on our Western front with maybe half a squadron of Rafale & 1 squadron of Su-30 MKI upgraded to Super Sukhoi standards in a front line role with the Jaguars in a secondary role leaving the rest of the IAF free to take on PLAAF . This would also include the Rafale component the INs importing.

The IN would probably deploy their MiG-29K & the IAF the Jaguar IM for naval duties against Pakistan. Between them & the FA mentioned in the above paragraph , they can sort out the whole of Paxtan . Add to it our IADS with the S-400 in the forefront.

It appears the IAF is confident the Mk-1a is upto the task of being in the frontline & vanguard as far as tackling the PAF goes .

Pakistani inventory
138 JF Blunder Block 1 and 2 (no match for even the mk1)
50 JF Blunder Block 3 (formidable opponent against mk1a)

36 J 10 CE (mk1a not upto the task against this class of fighter we need mk2 for that)

75 F 16s (again mk1a not upto the task against this class of fighter we need mk2 for that)

53 F-7 (Chinese version of flying coffin) (are being replaced with JF 17s) (so additional orders of JF 17 are expected)

87 Mirage 3 (capable fighters and deep strike platforms) (might be replaced with J10 and future variants of JF 17)

92 Mirage 5 (capable fighters and deep strike platforms,) (might be replaced with J10 and future variants of JF 17)

On 2nd thought 223 Tejas makes perfect sense as PAF is going to inevitably order more JF 17s to replace it's aging fleet of F-7's and Mirages.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Pakistani inventory
138 JF Blunder Block 1 and 2 (no match for even the mk1)
50 JF Blunder Block 3 (formidable opponent against mk1a)

36 J 10 CE (mk1a not upto the task against this class of fighter we need mk2 for that)

75 F 16s (again mk1a not upto the task against this class of fighter we need mk2 for that)

53 F-7 (Chinese version of flying coffin) (are being replaced with JF 17s) (so additional orders of JF 17 are expected)

87 Mirage 3 (capable fighters and deep strike platforms) (might be replaced with J10 and future variants of JF 17)

92 Mirage 5 (capable fighters and deep strike platforms,) (might be replaced with J10 and future variants of JF 17)

On 2nd thought 223 Tejas makes perfect sense as PAF is going to inevitably order more JF 17s to replace it's aging fleet of F-7's and Mirages.

IMO, Tejas Mk1A would go head to head with the J10CE as far as avionics are concerned.
One needs to remember that each and every Tejas Mk1A after the 20th unit will come equipped with a 912 TRM Uttam AESA radar.
The baseline Uttam AESA was capable of tracking a target of 2m^2 RCS at a distance of 150km and in a test conducted back in 2017 it tracked another Tejas from a distance of 140km.
The TRM count on the baseline Uttam were some 736 TRM, so just imagine what numbers the 912 TRM Uttam AESA can pull.
This radar paired with Astra Mk2 would be ideal for long range sniping.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Pakistani inventory
138 JF Blunder Block 1 and 2 (no match for even the mk1)
50 JF Blunder Block 3 (formidable opponent against mk1a)

36 J 10 CE (mk1a not upto the task against this class of fighter we need mk2 for that)

75 F 16s (again mk1a not upto the task against this class of fighter we need mk2 for that)

53 F-7 (Chinese version of flying coffin) (are being replaced with JF 17s) (so additional orders of JF 17 are expected)

87 Mirage 3 (capable fighters and deep strike platforms) (might be replaced with J10 and future variants of JF 17)

92 Mirage 5 (capable fighters and deep strike platforms,) (might be replaced with J10 and future variants of JF 17)

On 2nd thought 223 Tejas makes perfect sense as PAF is going to inevitably order more JF 17s to replace it's aging fleet of F-7's and Mirages.

The Mk1A with AESA, SPJ and Astra is a match for anything pakistan currently fields. It'll be a head on fight, the F-16's payload advantage will not be a game changer. The J-10 has good electronics but we have choice missiles of our own to employ flexible tactics.

 

[standard snowball]

The Mk1A with AESA, SPJ and Astra is a match for anything pakistan currently fields. It'll be a head on fight, the F-16's payload advantage will not be a game changer. The J-10 has good electronics but we have choice missiles of our own to employ flexible tactics.

IMO, Tejas Mk1A would go head to head with the J10CE as far as avionics are concerned.
One needs to remember that each and every Tejas Mk1A after the 20th unit will come equipped with a 912 TRM Uttam AESA radar.
The baseline Uttam AESA was capable of tracking a target of 2m^2 RCS at a distance of 150km and in a test conducted back in 2017 it tracked another Tejas from a distance of 140km.
The TRM count on the baseline Uttam were some 736 TRM, so just imagine what numbers the 912 TRM Uttam AESA can pull.
This radar paired with Astra Mk2 would be ideal for long range sniping.

I am not saying it can't be a formidable opponent to F16 and J 10 but whenever possible we should send a clearly superior aircraft to take on the enemy, yes mk1a can take on J 10 and F 16 but it would be too close for comfort but against JF Blunder, Mk1a totally obliterate it from miles away without any problem.

Even our Mig 21 shot down a F 16 but that does not mean we should send Mig 21s against F 16.
Our strategy should be to achieve not just parity but complete technological superiority over PAF and mk1a can provide that sort of superiority over JF 17 but not J 10 or F 16 and we need mk2 to achieve just that.

 

[FireStar]

What matters more, is that the tejas order will definitely boost the industry. Ultimately it's the industry that will win the war.

 

[Azaad]

Our desi polymath Clutterji is back with another episode of CTC , this time taking a crack at analysing the Modi government's recent decision at reforming DRDO .