DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[SwordOfDarkness]

Long overdue.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Long overdue.

What is it can you elaborate?

 

[Lonewarrior]

What is it can you elaborate?

Let's see what we currently have in terms of air defence that can be easily integrated with fast moving battalions

1. Strela-10; slow and old system from 70s
2. Osa; heavy system again from 70s
3. Shilka; can be upgraded with modern FCS but low ammunition capacity and limited size of 23mm ammunition would bite you
4. Tunguska; more or less the ideal system we should have but they're old, unupgraded and perhaps more importantly needs to import each missile

Panstir type (I'm reiterating, type...not Pantsir) AD systems are the absolute necessity of an army where you have high calibre autocannon (so that you can use air-burst rounds in future) and missiles on a fast moving platform

 

[ezsasa]

Long overdue.

if i say "Indian military has systemic problem when it comes to procuring any weapons system with a barrel", how wrong am i going to be?

 

[Lonewarrior]

if i say "Indian military has systemic problem when it comes to procuring any weapons system with a barrel", how wrong am i going to be?

Sad K9 Thunder noise...

 

[ezsasa]

Sad K9 Thunder noise...

even a broken clock shows right time twice a day. we are talking systemic level here.

If a list is made of all requirements of weapon systems with a barrel , and the success rate along with time taken, how will it look like?

 

[Lonewarrior]

even a broken clock shows right time twice a day. we are talking systemic level here.

If a list is made of all requirements of weapon systems with a barrel , and the success rate along with time taken, how will it look like?

If you add following constraints (1) must be phoren, (2) ignore corruption and (3) blacklisting...then fabulous

AK-203, SIG 716, Negev, T-72/90, we're all set to induct Sprut SD, Millennium was about to come...

On a side note a much better statement would be "Indian Navy has systemic problem when it comes to procuring any system with mine in its name"

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Bradley is that you?

K30 Biho.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

What is it can you elaborate?

Lonewarrior was mostly on point, adding my observations.

IA has insufficient SHORAD systems to effectively defend its FOBs, Armoured divisions and ammo dumps. Same for IAF.

We need a mobile platform, with high rate of fire, and missiles available.

I would prefer a AK-630 type system, with reduced fire rate (down to around 2k rounds/min) and modified VSHORADS.

This is (relatively) easy to make, as we have all the tech for it already.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Lonewarrior was mostly on point, adding my observations.

IA has insufficient SHORAD systems to effectively defend its FOBs, Armoured divisions and ammo dumps. Same for IAF.

We need a mobile platform, with high rate of fire, and missiles available.

I would prefer a AK-630 type system, with reduced fire rate (down to around 2k rounds/min) and modified VSHORADS.

This is (relatively) easy to make, as we have all the tech for it already.

How would you go around mountain ak-630 on a light tank ? Won't it have issue of ammo storage?

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

if i say "Indian military has systemic problem when it comes to procuring any weapons system with a barrel", how wrong am i going to be?

Hmm.

I would say its not just with a barrel, its anything that is either of a defensive nature or whose ofensive value isnt obvious . IA is quick to buy bombs, missiles, even tanks, but is slow to get BPJs, plates, helmets, sights, NVGs, things that will cost much less.

I also feel IA doesnt take tech disparities into account as much as it should, our SHORAD systems are lacking and it took them long enough to figure out they needed some. From what I know of IA procurement, I think they may have ignored the datedness of their SHORAD systems - just counted the numbers and said "good enough".

It could also be that they are still in the old idea of "If IA>PA, good enough", which is something that quite a few people are still stuck with. Hopefully this will go away with the rise of china.

 

[Blood+]

How would you go around mountain ak-630 on a light tank ? Won't it have issue of ammo storage?

Mount it on a trailer, like the Americans did. Or use a GSh-6-30 instead.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

How would you go around mountain ak-630 on a light tank ? Won't it have issue of ammo storage?

Not really. It wont be a conversion with just removing the turret and placing new one in, just the same chassis.

It should fit ~1000 rounds very easily for 30mm, I think if streched it could go as high as 3000.

BMPs have 500 rounds storage, and they store commander, gunner, and controls, sights in the turret too. Move them into the hull and you get a whole lot of space.

Mount it on a trailer, like the Americans did. Or use a GSh-6-30 instead.

Trailer might be fine for bases, but might not be able to keep up with deployed forces. The gun can be changed ofcourse, I meant a rotary cannon with high rate of fire (and not necessarily the AK-630).

 

[Blood+]

Hmm.

I would say its not just with a barrel, its anything that is either of a defensive nature or whose ofensive value isnt obvious . IA is quick to buy bombs, missiles, even tanks, but is slow to get BPJs, plates, helmets, sights, NVGs, things that will cost much less.

I also feel IA doesnt take tech disparities into account as much as it should, our SHORAD systems are lacking and it took them long enough to figure out they needed some. From what I know of IA procurement, I think they may have ignored the datedness of their SHORAD systems - just counted the numbers and said "good enough".

It could also be that they are still in the old idea of "If IA>PA, good enough", which is something that quite a few people are still stuck with. Hopefully this will go away with the rise of china.

We really need another Manekshaw.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Mount it on a trailer, like the Americans did. Or use a GSh-6-30 instead.

Ta Da

Don't you dare complaint about its centre of gravity or simply the fact that looks atrocious

 

[Lonewarrior]

Not really. It wont be a conversion with just removing the turret and placing new one in, just the same chassis.

It should fit ~1000 rounds very easily for 30mm, I think if streched it could go as high as 3000.

BMPs have 500 rounds storage, and they store commander, gunner, and controls, sights in the turret too. Move them into the hull and you get a whole lot of space.




Trailer might be fine for bases, but might not be able to keep up with deployed forces. The gun can be changed ofcourse, I meant a rotary cannon with high rate of fire (and not necessarily the AK-630).

I've already covered this thing in great detail...

I can come up with details mate. I can even spend 3-4 hours in Fusion360 can come up with dimensions accurate up to 1/10th of a millimetres. I can do a FEA analysis of that design to highlight the stress areas where you would need reinforcement...but what would be the benefit of all that effort? Just few guys on DFI agreeing on my idea and one or two people appreciating it. That's it.


Well here comes the beauty of Russian systems...they are simple AF. Compared to other Gatling style guns AK-630 has one of the most simplest feed mechanism because it uses linked ammunition just like typical machine gun. There is no need to come up with sophisticated linkless feed system; you just need an ammo drum and a single flexible feed chute.

Why shell collection!?
Shell collection is only required for planes and ships where you can't risk empty shells interfering with other systems or Foreign Objects Damage. In case of land application you can simply dump it outside the vehicle.

Okay, let's see

I don't have a detailed drawings of Kestrel, but here's a Pandur II, and remember it's slightly smaller than Kestrel.
View attachment 201282
That red box it the approximate minimum area you can get inside the crew compartment; 1500x1500x3000mm.
And this is the ammunition drum of GAU-8 (the original dimensions are in inches; I considered the max in mm)
View attachment 201283
Moreover, GAU-8's drum is complicated (it's hydraulic powered, linkless feeding, closed loop feeding where empty shells are re-fed in the drum) hence big and heavy. You can easily make it smaller by using electromechanical actuator, linked ammunition and open loop feeding.

Hmm...aage bolein Prabhu

At this point you're just trying to irritate me right? Maar khaayega


I've already shown you the dimensions; how can't you fit a 0.1m diameter and 2m long cylinder in a space 2mx1.5mx3m!?
Remove all the seats and some equipments and heck you can even fit two such drums side by side.

Sure; here's a M163 VADS with its primary drum magazine and secondary side magazine.
View attachment 201340
Definitely it's 20mm so it'll take less space but you also must consider that M113 is almost half in length of Kestrel (5m vs 8m)

Ayye Bhai, duniya kahan se kahan pahunch gayi aur aap hain ki
This is an AESA radar...
View attachment 201341
...790w!!
My effing electric kettle is 1500w.

Log 8x8 APC pe pura ka pura 155mm turret laga de rahein hain, aur hm ek 30mm auto-cannon na lagane ke liye ab aise aise bahane khojein! Itte bure din aa gayein
View attachment 201342

 

[Blood+]

Ta Da
View attachment 206320
Don't you dare complaint about its centre of gravity or simply the fact that looks atrocious

Oh hell no!! Not that one!!

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Not really. It wont be a conversion with just removing the turret and placing new one in, just the same chassis.

It should fit ~1000 rounds very easily for 30mm, I think if streched it could go as high as 3000.

BMPs have 500 rounds storage, and they store commander, gunner, and controls, sights in the turret too. Move them into the hull and you get a whole lot of space.




Trailer might be fine for bases, but might not be able to keep up with deployed forces. The gun can be changed ofcourse, I meant a rotary cannon with high rate of fire (and not necessarily the AK-630).

But as reports suggest it will be based on light tank so are they working on something new?

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

But as reports suggest it will be based on light tank so are they working on something new?

Based on light tank is a very broad term, it basically means engine, transmission, suspension etc will be same. Not that same hull will be there.

I hope they are working on something new, and hopefully they try to get something that is a good SHORAD system instead of a system that just ticks all the boxes in RFI.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Based on light tank is a very broad term, it basically means engine, transmission, suspension etc will be same. Not that same hull will be there.

I hope they are working on something new, and hopefully they try to get something that is a good SHORAD system instead of a system that just ticks all the boxes in RFI.

Fingers crossed but couldn't they have used Kestrel?