DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Arjun Mk1A]

Very sad to see this beautiful work get lost was there ever a reason given why it was shut down?

All the prototype for testing crashed. Later wheeled version called Panchi was under development. After that project went cold.

 

[DumbPilot]

DRDO waalo ne itta zyada stealth bana diya ki ab unhi ko nai mil raha hai

Yup
View attachment 196496

no nishant but definitely nirarsha

 

[Indrajit]

Let's assume it's 5 million and compare it with 3 million AGM-158C

The ramjet engine on BrahMos is always going to be cheaper than the turbojet on AGM-158C.
A single mode Active Radar radar seeker will be cheaper than a multi-mode Radar + IIR (AI algorithm) seeker.
A literal metal tube with a hole in it will always be cheaper than a missile with stealth fuselage made of composite.
BrahMos is in service for almost two decades and that for LRASM is 5 years!

So why the heck are the charging so much? One million dollar for each extra Mach!?

How do you think all the "unaccounted" purchases happen....? These figures hide as much as they reveal.....

 

[Lonewarrior]

On a lighter note...

P.S. : In case anyone's perplexed by all these technical terms that this gentleman is using, I'm making it simpler for you. It's the equivalent of saying "I'm L, G, B, T, Q and +" in seeker language.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

All the prototype for testing crashed. Later wheeled version called Panchi was under development. After that project went cold.

So in the end panchi kahi dur ud gaya

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

I think at max it can give artillery coordinates for striking. But at this rate TATA SED, L&T and other Private Drone guys have similar drones. Due to its extraordinary record Army not interested to touch it.

Yea now army is buying quad cops for artillery

 

[The Shrike]

Let's assume it's 5 million and compare it with 3 million AGM-158C

The ramjet engine on BrahMos is always going to be cheaper than the turbojet on AGM-158C.
A single mode Active Radar radar seeker will be cheaper than a multi-mode Radar + IIR (AI algorithm) seeker.
A literal metal tube with a hole in it will always be cheaper than a missile with stealth fuselage made of composite.
BrahMos is in service for almost two decades and that for LRASM is 5 years!

So why the heck are the charging so much? One million dollar for each extra Mach!?

Russia has bills to pay too, war is not cheap. Besides they need to make up for oil discounts also.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Russia has bills to pay too, war is not cheap. Besides they need to make up for oil discounts also.

Glad you mentioned the name Russia; I tried my best to compare BrahMos with one of best AShM out there but I think there would have been a much better way to do that; comparing BrahMos with BrahMos.

The cost of a P-800 Onyx is 1.5 million USD
The cost of a BrahMos is 12.5 million USD

 

[jai jaganath]

On a lighter note...
View attachment 196499

P.S. : In case anyone's perplexed by all these technical terms that this gentleman is using, I'm making it simpler for you. It's the equivalent of saying "I'm L, G, B, T, Q and +" in seeker language.

And what does that "everything" includes
Unjustified defending should stop

 

[Gyyan]

 

[Anandhu Krishna]

Tell me you have absolutely no idea about Indian defence start-ups without telling me. Do you know why I mentioned the name Vinayak!?

Vinayak Sen is the guy because of whom the name "Armasen Tactical" has a sen in it. And Armasen Tactical is the Indian company that has provided most of those gears.

Moreover that not impossible to attach Velcro name patch says Akash, not Vinayak...kya Gunda banega re tu!?

I took a closer look at the pictures. It makes sense. Entire kit has 3/4 different camos. Has to be Indian.

 

[Anandhu Krishna]

Koreans may build a 50,000t AC

South Korea Eyeing Larger Aircraft Carrier for its CVX Program - Naval News

South Korea’s Ministry of Defense will soon begin working on preliminary policy research on the feasibility of building a 50,000-tons CVX aircraft carrier.

www.navalnews.com

In the letter sent to Mr. Jung, MoD has mentioned that it will shortly begin working on preliminary policy research on the feasibility of building 50,000-tonne class aircraft carrier.

 

[flanker99]

Glad you mentioned the name Russia; I tried my best to compare BrahMos with one of best AShM out there but I think there would have been a much better way to do that; comparing BrahMos with BrahMos.

The cost of a P-800 Onyx is 1.5 million USD
The cost of a BrahMos is 12.5 million USD

Whats your source?...never seen that amount all the article ive read pegs the unit cost of the block 3 at around 5-6mln

 

[Chinmoy]

It's not just about HAL, it's about government, it's about military...it's about majority of Indians.

Military could have easily asked for a design that was ahead of peer. Military could have given fixed requirements instead of vague. But do they?
Government could have treated PSUs as it's children to nurture them like every other country does instead of preferring foreign suppliers and literally abandoning them. But do they?
PSUs could have easily made 4-5 teams to compete with each other with alternate designs for a same project and in the end made something world-class. But do they?

First of all, your whole concept is faulty here.

As a user, the moment you fix your requirement with no place of change, you are doomed. Example. Arjun MBT. After the Bangladesh war, IA came up with a tank design of 50 ton which has to be better then the existing Vijayanta. So when they put the weight category at 50 ton, they had stuck the first nail in coffin. So what you are saying as vague specs are basically a blanket requirement which user seek.

Second point of government treating PSUs as their children. You should know that this is the particular reason why we have a non-existent MIC in spite of such a huge man-power force. Govt has treated PSUs as their children. Armed forces were forced to buy 70% of their requirements from PSUs. No private companies were allowed to venture in defence sector. The ideal way would have been to create a competitive R&D sector in between PSUs and Private sector. But government did treated PSUs as their children and spoiled that child by giving him unwanted benefit.

Third point, when you are getting pocket money by doing nothing and sitting idle, why would you want to work? By creating 4-5 teams and giving rise to competition, you would basically kill your source of income. So why on earth would you want to do that?

You see, to create a thriving MIC, the basic requirement is to have a conjuncture in between defence force and industrial force. But you can't expect army, navy or airforce to sit and keep a tab on industrial development and vice versa. For this very reason, Ministry of Defence has been created. It is their job to act as a bridge between user and provider. It is not the job of MoD to decide upon which weapon or system army has to use. Their job is to look at the requirement of forces and provide a viable option to them. If that solution is not available in country, then it is their job to create opportunity of its development and manufacturing within country. It is not their job to force feed what ever $hit your PSU is developing in the name of indigenous system.
So basically, government should have a clear cut view of what they want to achieve in defence sector and should prod on ways to achieve it. When you compare the know how achieved by HAL with license manufacturing with that of OFB, I would say that HAL has done a good job. Not fantastic, but good enough. Even BEML has done a good job with their license manufacturing.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

I have a question can we use Kaveri for long endurance Hale drones?

 

[Lonewarrior]

Whats your source?...never seen that amount all the article ive read pegs the unit cost of the block 3 at around 5-6mln

Росія за вихідні випустила по Україні ракет вартістю близько $200 млн. Оцінка Forbes — Forbes.ua

Forbes.ua: Росія помітно активізувала ракетні обстріли України в останні вихідні червня. Загалом за 25–26 червня з боку Росії та Бі…

forbes.ua

Even if we consider that it's a propaganda piece from Ukraine then common sense says that they'll try to inflate the price to say see Russia is wasting 5 million USD missile just to destroy a building in downtown.

 

[Lonewarrior]

I have a question can we use Kaveri for long endurance Hale drones?

Yup

 

[Lonewarrior]

It seems like you just wanted to counter Lonewarrior and for that you countered his arguments; anyways

As a user, the moment you fix your requirement with no place of change, you are doomed. Example. Arjun MBT. After the Bangladesh war, IA came up with a tank design of 50 ton which has to be better then the existing Vijayanta. So when they put the weight category at 50 ton, they had stuck the first nail in coffin. So what you are saying as vague specs are basically a blanket requirement which user seek.

You're mixing "evolution" with my terminology of "vague definition".

Lemme make it clear with an example.
Let's say army gave a fixed GSQR of tank and DRDO started working on it. After 3 years a new technology, let's say guided APFSDS rounds are invented in Belgium and now Army wants DRDO to add that too in it...this is what's called evolution; something you're trying to imply.

Now come to Indian Army's rifle acquisition program and just try to imagine the level of shitshow of RFP they did. We want a 5.56x45mm rifle...no no wait, a 6.8mm...why not a single rifle for both...what about 7.62x51mm...to much recoil, heck it...let's go back to 5.56x45mm...why not 7.62x39mm for rear echelon...tada, see 7.62x51mm from SIG Sauer" And in case you're about to say that it's also evolution, then let me tell you it's not. Since adopting 5.45x39mm Russians are trying to bridge the gap between it and 7.62x54mmR and now it they adopt 6mm Unified then it would be evolution.

Second point of government treating PSUs as their children. You should know that this is the particular reason why we have a non-existent MIC in spite of such a huge man-power force. Govt has treated PSUs as their children. Armed forces were forced to buy 70% of their requirements from PSUs. No private companies were allowed to venture in defence sector. The ideal way would have been to create a competitive R&D sector in between PSUs and Private sector. But government did treated PSUs as their children and spoiled that child by giving him unwanted benefit.

I used the metaphors of child because you can control each and everything of your child, enhance his or her performance by tempting with treats and if necessary you can beat the shit out of him or her...in short, the kind of old-school parent child relation I had when I was growing up.

But unfortunately you understood it as the example where parents pamper their children so much that they become spoilt brats. Don't know how you got influenced by these modern, liberal, woke parenting.

Third point, when you are getting pocket money by doing nothing and sitting idle, why would you want to work? By creating 4-5 teams and giving rise to competition, you would basically kill your source of income. So why on earth would you want to do that?

Because...continuing on my previous examples of father children metaphor...that's the only way you won't get a good spanking.
It's what Soviets used to do; big names like Kalashnikov and Simonov and Degtyaryov all competing with each other for a same requirement; despite each one employed by government run companies.

 

[Chinmoy]

2.5 Billion for 200 seems kind of expensive.

When you have only one customer, its bound to be expensive.

 

[Chinmoy]

I thought the price was 5 million a missile which would put the total for 200 at 1 billion. What are they paying the extra 1.5 billion fir?

Launcher, fire control system, warhead, spare....