DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[blackleaf]

Does Rukmini have the capacity/bandwidth to handle >10 of these simultaneously for control and communications 24/7? Seems implausible that they won’t have to piggy back on US mil sats at some point- again I’m more than happy to be proven wrong.

until now all users of US MALE/HALE have bought off the shelf and basically used the existing US infrastructure for them

How does Turkey control its drones? Or Pakistan? Do they just piggyback off of American or Chinese satellite infrastructure? Do smaller countries that plan to get drones expect the seller to provide satellite data link with the purchase?

Surely as one of the few nations with indigenous satellite launch capabilities we should be able to launch enough military communication satellites to take care of our needs. If more are needed then they should be prioritized instead of wasting launch capacity on OneWeb seats.

 

[Fatalis]

I'm really happy the way private companies are getting involved in any competition. For example the AA gun where L&T developed everything in house but some companies went and collaborated with foreign companies to learn the know-how. Now, they will also try to develop everything in-house to keep the cost low and the competition will become even better.

 

[Swesh]

How does Turkey control its drones? Or Pakistan? Do they just piggyback off of American or Chinese satellite infrastructure? Do smaller countries that plan to get drones expect the seller to provide satellite data link with the purchase?

Surely as one of the few nations with indigenous satellite launch capabilities we should be able to launch enough military communication satellites to take care of our needs. If more are needed then they should be prioritized instead of wasting launch capacity on OneWeb seats.

We already have that much capacity to use our current satellite structure in drones each and every wing of armed forces have their separate communication satellite be it navy air force or army and there is a satellite up in orbit specificly designed for uav communication things is army delay ground station work that has been case of gsat6 satellite which spent half of its life idle since army didn't launch ground station

 

[Fatalis]

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

What's d4

 

[Kuldeepm952]

That was my first thought and then I realized upon further thought that given the small size of Vajra, that thingy will be very small even smaller than a ball and can be passed off as background noise or a bird.

Its a good start and if it's indeed VLO in nature than an endurance of 5-6 hrs is rather very good for ISR purposes, though hope that they can scale up the design to a class where it can carry multiple capable missiles and bombs such as ulpgm.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

What's d4

Anti drone system

 

[binayak95]

How does Turkey control its drones? Or Pakistan? Do they just piggyback off of American or Chinese satellite infrastructure? Do smaller countries that plan to get drones expect the seller to provide satellite data link with the purchase?

Surely as one of the few nations with indigenous satellite launch capabilities we should be able to launch enough military communication satellites to take care of our needs. If more are needed then they should be prioritized instead of wasting launch capacity on OneWeb seats.

Sat based drones arent very common, most MALE drones use UHF/VHF class comms.

American tech and money is on another planet.

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

Hope that TAPAS does a fly-past instead of towing it on back of a Tatra truck which we used to do.

 

[dfcool]

fanboys are going to be disappointed when they find out the actual size of this thing, isn't it?
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Vajra drone - A New Era For Defence Systems

"The most advanced defence drone" I am not sure about that but it is definitely "Most Outsourced defence drone", just look at their partners.

Who are behind Garuda Company, How they roped in Cognizant, AWS, intel. They dont come cheap you need pay millions of dollars for defence tie ups.

I get a feeling that these people riding the wave of india def growth and want to sell some shiny looking drone and get acquired and mint millions, they might not in this for long term.

 

[charlie]

How does Turkey control its drones? Or Pakistan? Do they just piggyback off of American or Chinese satellite infrastructure? Do smaller countries that plan to get drones expect the seller to provide satellite data link with the purchase?

Surely as one of the few nations with indigenous satellite launch capabilities we should be able to launch enough military communication satellites to take care of our needs. If more are needed then they should be prioritized instead of wasting launch capacity on OneWeb seats.

Even the country like US don’t have enough military satellites for the demand they have, that’s why comsatcom exists( one of the company I invested in stocks that provides bandwidth to US military went belly up in 2020) even that market is saturated, most of the users in world uses commercial satellite for their military needs.

they lease the bandwidth from commercial satellite operator.

 

[Arihant Roy]

This year has been especially great for Indian Military aviation in general and IAF in particular from the point of view of flight safety.

Infact 2022 has been the safest year for Indian airforce over the past 25 years.

When it comes to fixed wing aircraft, there has been ONLY a SINGLE MiG-21 UM Type 69 crash on 29th July . Sadly two pilots attained veergati. And there hasnt been any other crashes of the fighter fleet.

The Indian Navy lost a MiG-29K over sea in Goa on 12th Oct. The pilot was unharmed.

So just two fighter crashes in 2022 considering the fact that each IAF pilot logs in 140-150+ hrs each year and the Tejas guys log in even more. Similar is the case for MiG-29K pilots. Unlike PAF, our jets aren't hangar queens which spend almost the entire time on ground.

So indeed it has been a fantastic year.

 

[Arihant Roy]

Now coming to the missiles part.

Many new missile tests.
-First test for AD-1 .
-AoN approval for 120 Pralay .
-First test of the newer improved 9000 km Agni V.
-12 Brahmos tests.

The infamous Brahmos strike in Mian Channu on March 9 under the noses of the over hyped HQ-9 and vaunted Paki AD network will go down in history books .



The various Brahmos test launches are -

1. 11th Jan from INS Visakhapatnam
2. 20th Jan
3. 18th Feb from INS Visakhapatnam
4. 5th Mar Brahmos ER from INS Chennai. Against a ground target.
5. 9th Mar . Fired into Mian Channu in Pakistan proper.
6. 23th Mar 450+ km ranged Brahmos fired by IAF land based squadrons.
7.19th April from Sukhoi-30 MKI
8. 19th Apr from INS Delhi
9. 27th Apr by Tri services command , Andaman Nic
10.12th May 450+ km ER from Sukhoi-30 MKI.
11.29th Nov 450+ km by Tri services Andaman Nic command
12. 29th Dec 600+ km ER from Sukhoi-30MKI.

I strongly believe that the range extension of Brahmos is being done in three phases.

In first phase, with minor software tweaks , the range was increased to 400-450+ kms.
In 2nd phase, there were minor hardware mods including additional kerosene storage, some changes in ramjet which resulted in 600+ km range.

In the third phase, there is a new Brahmos with more substantial mods to the ramjet engine besides additional liquid fuel storage which results in 800+ km range.

Wishing my fellow posters here including the lurking Piddis , Chamchas , Pakis and Chinks a very happy New Year. 2022 has been a blast for Bharat varsh.

Unfortunately, Our Pradhan Sevak's Mom passed away. Om Shanti to the departed soul. My deepest condolences to Modi Ji and his near and dear ones.

 

[Chinmoy]

Then it’s unfair to use the weight criticism against ATAGS wrt to ATHOS

it’s a BS red herring anyway, what infrastructure do they have that can support 15t but can’t support ~18t? The ground pressure of the ATAGS will be less than the single axle 155/52 23L chamber guns anyway and the IA is taking >40t K9 and MBTs right to the front

We always put the 48 km range of ATAGS in forefront when comparing it with any other gun. USP of ATAGS is for us is just its range. But the moment when the weight factor comes, we start giving one excuse or other in support of ATAGS weight.

Lets start with a layman example. Suppose the weight lifting capability of your hand in 15 kg and you are doing a swing arm exercise daily with a 5 kg and 10 kg dumbbells. Now if instead of building muscle, doing this exercise makes you to replace your arm, which weight category would you PREFER? 5 kg or 10 kg. Remember that your arm could handle 15 kg.

As of now, we do use T-815 6x6 as FAT whose towing capacity is 16 tons in altitude. So what's wrong if IA is seeking a 15 ton gun? The cost involved here is not just the gun, but a whole series of upgraded FAT. So we have also no right to cry if someone writes that ATAGS is costlier then contemporary gun as the whole system includes not just the gun, but also the FAT.

We always bring in the excuse that IA wanted a longer range gun. So they have no right to point out the increased weight because of increased cylinder capacity as it is them who was asking for longer range. But no one has yet pointed out any source where IA had asked for a 48 or 50 km range gun. DRDO has gone classic Soviet way to out maneuver others in range here.
What would have been range of ATAGS with 23 ltr cylinder and what would have been its weight then? Would its range have been lower then ATHOS or any other gun?

Another favorite excuse for us is, we we could deploy 50 ton K9 or T-90 in Ladakh, what's a big deal with 18 ton gun. To start with, we are not deploying T-90s and K9s out of choice. We were forced to do so temporarily. In recent interview of Jayant Patil, he mentioned that K9 would come with modification for high altitude deployment. Why we need the modifications if we are already deploying them at high altitude?
Lets take the case of T-90. The PWR of T-90 in plain is around 17hp/ton. We have deployed them in Ladakh. What would be its PWR at those altitude with depleted oxygen? We have deployed them against Type 15 whose rated PWR is 27.8 hp/ton. So which of this tank would be more agile at those altitude? Yes, you have superior firepower among two, but what would be its use if you have to bleed more power to target a much more agile opponent.

Mazboori can't be a way of life. You are correct in your own sense and right to say that 3 ton increment is nothing. But in same sense, user is also not wrong in seeking a 3 ton lighter system.

But chill. As I already mentioned, this RFI has been tailored made for ATAGS.

 

[Chinmoy]

Hmm Okay. They want RQ-4 tier HALE drone at one go.
While Chinese army will be inducting dozens of WingLoong10 that has below 50k ft service ceiling.
As Parrikar ji said Marvel Comics specifications. We have a very special army.

China already deployed WZ-7 at LAC as per satellite imagery. Flight altitude of WZ-7 is 50k+ feet.

 

[Chinmoy]

fanboys are going to be disappointed when they find out the actual size of this thing, isn't it?
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Vajra drone - A New Era For Defence Systems

Nothing to do with SWiFT. A good tactical system.

 

[WarmongerLSK]

FTB role?

 

[karn]

FTB role?

Flying test bed.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

We always put the 48 km range of ATAGS in forefront when comparing it with any other gun. USP of ATAGS is for us is just its range. But the moment when the weight factor comes, we start giving one excuse or other in support of ATAGS weight.

Lets start with a layman example. Suppose the weight lifting capability of your hand in 15 kg and you are doing a swing arm exercise daily with a 5 kg and 10 kg dumbbells. Now if instead of building muscle, doing this exercise makes you to replace your arm, which weight category would you PREFER? 5 kg or 10 kg. Remember that your arm could handle 15 kg.

As of now, we do use T-815 6x6 as FAT whose towing capacity is 16 tons in altitude. So what's wrong if IA is seeking a 15 ton gun? The cost involved here is not just the gun, but a whole series of upgraded FAT. So we have also no right to cry if someone writes that ATAGS is costlier then contemporary gun as the whole system includes not just the gun, but also the FAT.

We always bring in the excuse that IA wanted a longer range gun. So they have no right to point out the increased weight because of increased cylinder capacity as it is them who was asking for longer range. But no one has yet pointed out any source where IA had asked for a 48 or 50 km range gun. DRDO has gone classic Soviet way to out maneuver others in range here.
What would have been range of ATAGS with 23 ltr cylinder and what would have been its weight then? Would its range have been lower then ATHOS or any other gun?

Another favorite excuse for us is, we we could deploy 50 ton K9 or T-90 in Ladakh, what's a big deal with 18 ton gun. To start with, we are not deploying T-90s and K9s out of choice. We were forced to do so temporarily. In recent interview of Jayant Patil, he mentioned that K9 would come with modification for high altitude deployment. Why we need the modifications if we are already deploying them at high altitude?
Lets take the case of T-90. The PWR of T-90 in plain is around 17hp/ton. We have deployed them in Ladakh. What would be its PWR at those altitude with depleted oxygen? We have deployed them against Type 15 whose rated PWR is 27.8 hp/ton. So which of this tank would be more agile at those altitude? Yes, you have superior firepower among two, but what would be its use if you have to bleed more power to target a much more agile opponent.

Mazboori can't be a way of life. You are correct in your own sense and right to say that 3 ton increment is nothing. But in same sense, user is also not wrong in seeking a 3 ton lighter system.

But chill. As I already mentioned, this RFI has been tailored made for ATAGS.

Agreed but there are two points here which you can expand on, K9 are being used as no ther option, I disagree as additional orders lead to opposite conclusion, and the tweaks which were being talked about doesn't include a powerful engine at all, instead if IA behaviour is to be observed suggests that IA liked K9 in its present form enough. K9 hp/tonne is around 20.

How RFI is tailor made for ATAGS, can you explain it?

 

[WarmongerLSK]

fanboys are going to be disappointed when they find out the actual size of this thing, isn't it?
=======
Vajra drone - A New Era For Defence Systems

So some of the specifications are:
1. Thrust: 24KG (Is this good?)
2. Fuel Consumption: 90KG/min (WTF, isn't this too high? Almost 5.4Ton/Hr!!!)
3. Speed: 30 m/s ~ 108 Km/Hr (good or bad?)
4. Payload: 5 KG(Isn't this too small? What roles is it suitable for?)