DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Love Charger]

Are mango rounds not good
Noob in this topic

No absolutely not , hell no , bloody hell not
Darn it. They are naught, they are mango they are bad and they are not good

Another noob on this topic

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Protection is actually not that bad
Ammunition is shitty across both fleets - we are wholly dependent on Israeli supply.

DRDO FSAPDS Mk II (though still $hitty at 530+ mm pen) is enough for most Pakistani tanks at 2 km. And its in production now. So how come we dependent on Israeli now?

Are mango rounds not good
Noob in this topic

Mango is barely 500mm RHAe penetration at 2km target. Western world has reached 900mm+ and Chinese are somewhere around 700mm (although that is only used by T-99A which isn't normally deployed against India, although during Ladakh standoff they were seen once in WTC).
Only saving grace is Pakistan's Al Khalid frontal armour is 450mm.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Are mango rounds not good
Noob in this topic

500mm RHA at 0° at 2000m, 230mm RHA at 60°. We don't use Mango-M.

 

[jai jaganath]

DRDO FSAPDS Mk II (though still $hitty at 530+ mm pen) is enough for most Pakistani tanks at 2 km. And its in production now. So how come we dependent on Israeli now?


Mango is barely 500mm RHAe penetration at 2km target. Western world has reached 900mm+ and Chinese are somewhere around 700mm (although that is only used by T-99A which isn't normally deployed against India, although during Ladakh standoff they were seen once in WTC).
Only saving grace is Pakistan's Al Khalid frontal armour is 450mm.

The penetration u wrote is about round or the protection that tank could take

 

[jai jaganath]

No absolutely not , hell no , bloody hell not
Darn it. They are naught, they are mango they are bad and they are not good

Another noob on this topic

Are bhai my early focus was airborne systems
Abhi abhi thoda sa knowledge acquire karne ki try kar raha hun with your support

 

[Chinmoy]

You mean rest will remain Divs? Maybe we are retaining all the three Armoured Divs and using IBG only in Pivot Corps to create the gaps?
Basically a Sundarji-Cold Start hybrid, you mean?

As I said, let the IBGs get form first. On top of that we have to see whether NAMICA would be used in offensive or defensive role.
How many IBGs would be in offensive and how many would be in defensive?
There are lot of permutation and combination to be considered even before we see a mass order.

 

[SUPERPOWER]

As I said, let the IBGs get form first. On top of that we have to see whether NAMICA would be used in offensive or defensive role.
How many IBGs would be in offensive and how many would be in defensive?
There are lot of permutation and combination to be considered even before we see a mass order.

Obvisouly defensive roles....25 nang main kaise offensive karenge.!!!!!

 

[Chinmoy]

DAC only cleared 25 NAMICA

IA needs enough so every IBG can have at least a couple of batteries plus independent regiments of NAMICA need to be deployed to the East. That’s gotta demand at least 150+

A little bit of reading don't hurt. I already mentioned in follow on reply when 13 odd NAMICA apart from 25 of 2018 ordered.

 

[Chinmoy]

@binayak95 ji along with my previous question do u know the status of namica on whap
@Chinmoy ji too

First answer one question to yourself.

What would be the pros of integrating NAG on WhAP?

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

The penetration u wrote is about round or the protection that tank could take

The 450mm of Al Khalid is its frontal protection. Other figures I wrote were about the rounds.

 

[binayak95]

DRDO FSAPDS Mk II (though still $hitty at 530+ mm pen) is enough for most Pakistani tanks at 2 km. And its in production now. So how come we dependent on Israeli now?


Mango is barely 500mm RHAe penetration at 2km target. Western world has reached 900mm+ and Chinese are somewhere around 700mm (although that is only used by T-99A which isn't normally deployed against India, although during Ladakh standoff they were seen once in WTC).
Only saving grace is Pakistan's Al Khalid frontal armour is 450mm.

Thats exactly what i meant. DRDO APFSDS suffices for paks - but its hardly a high penning round. We have reserve stocks of wartime usage ammo that is entirely Israeli ammo. We wont be slinging DRDO rounds when the balloon goes up

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Thats exactly what i meant. DRDO APFSDS suffices for paks - but its hardly a high penning round. We have reserve stocks of wartime usage ammo that is entirely Israeli ammo. We wont be slinging DRDO rounds when the balloon goes up

I think the Israeli import APFSDS was more than 15 years ago and is well past its expiry date by now and our War Wastage Reserves are composed of Mango emergency imports mainly but with DRDO MkII round contract having been given to OshoCorp, it will change rather fast I think.
Israeli round was to be co-produced by OFB but quality issues stopped it from happening, last I heard.

 

[DumbPilot]

What sort of technological challenges stop us from manufacturing APFSDS like the Israelis currently? Metallurgy?

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

DRDO FSAPDS Mk II (though still $hitty at 530+ mm pen) is enough for most Pakistani tanks at 2 km. And its in production now. So how come we dependent on Israeli now?

I wouldn't call DRDO APFSDS Mk2 as shitty since its unclear whether the 530+ mm RHA at 2km is at elevation angle of 0° or 30°.
From what I know, DRDO normally tests its APFSDS rounds at an elevation angle of 30°, where DoP is lower than that of 0°.

Also work is already underway to produce APFSDS with 600-800mm RHA penetration.

 

[Chinmoy]

ALSV variant(Mortar)

View attachment 179215

Now we could see why products don't get implemented easily.

 

[Chinmoy]

120mm or 81mm??

This is 81 mm variant.

 

[Blood+]

So, here's the thing, Indian T90S are subpar if not crap, so stop peddling t90 as some op tank

I never claimed it to be an OP system, unlike your pathetic ilk of Arjunk fanboys. I just said it's less crappy than your favorite waifu, which is a fact.

1.) It lacks citv, critical for many situations, have seen enough video tank commanders finding difficult to find targets and getting ploinked by Ukrainian infantry nearby, as the conflict showed, in hatch open condition, even a dji equipped grenade will take the vehicle out

Not for long, though.

https://newsonair.com/2022/02/25/defence-minister-signs-rs-1075-contact-with-bel-for-indigenous-t-90-tank-commander-sights/

Besides, even the Arjun MkIs do not come with a CITS, so there is that.
Anyway, these are just plug-and-play systems that can be retrofitted into any design with enough room, it's not something that makes or breaks a tank, unlike the glaring deficiencies in Arjun's basic design itself, which renders it completely unfit for combat. I will come to those shortly.

2.) The bloody thing doesn't have an apu for silent overwatch and other applications

So effing what?? Even the Abrams up until the SEPV2 and most of the Leopard 2 models do not come with an APU installed (although the provision is left), so does it make those tanks overall inferior to Arjun??

3.) Doesn't have environmental control unit and we have to come up with ice jacket like juggad for our soliders

Of course, they don't. Why would they?? They weren't made keeping Indian climate conditions in mind after all.

You know which other tank didn't come with an AC unit?? - Abrams. But the Americans didn't need to develop a contraption like those Peltier suits for their crew members, operating in the middle east and Afghanistan. Heck, the Syrians are using their T-90s with no trouble at all either.

So, ergo, either you're making a mountain out of a molehill just to push your dumb narrative or you are proclaiming our men in uniform to be a bunch of pussies - now take your pick. I don't know which is worse.

4.) Our Tincans still use mango rounds

Which are still merginally better than those used by the Arjun!!

an extensive change of gun and loading system might be needed to fire more high pressure rounds

Not really. Russians have got better rounds for their T-90As, which has got the same gun and autoloaders as our T-90S. Well, with the T-90S, you will at least have the possibility of importing better rounds but the same can not be said for Arjuns though. So I don't see how it's a disadvantage for the T-90s.

5.) You can probably run faster than the T90S can reverse, so in case of ambush, better pray and die rather than panicking

I can walk faster in fact, it's just 4 km/hr which is abysmal. And that's pretty much the only parameter where Arjun comfortably beats out the T-90S, as I've been saying.

6.) Our Tincans have shit for side Armor, so a simple rpg7 rocket will take it out,

No, you fucking retard!! It's your beloved Arjun that has the worse side protection of the two!! Here, take a looksy -

As you can see, the base composite armor provides a uniform level of protection from the frontal 60-degree arc (which is the norm for NATO MBTs as well except for Abrams), which means the crew compartment is completely covered from the frontal arc. They achieve it by designing the turret in such a way that would hide the weak sides and rear behind the front armor panels.

NATO achieved the same goal by adding more armor on the turret sides as can be seen here in this diagram -
1. Leclerc

2. Abrams -

3. Leopard 2 -

Unfortunately, Arjun follows neither of these two design philosophies as the developers had royally screwed up during its basic design phase.

It'd seem that the devs had decided to copy the design of Leopard2A4 but due to a complete lack of understanding of basic armor design, they completely fucked it up at multiple levels.

First, they forgot to add the the side armor panels on the turret as can be seen here -

As can be seen here, the crew compartment is basically exposed from the side.

And secondly, they forgot to leave any room for composite armor behind the gunner's sight unlike what can be seen in the Leopard2A4 turret photograph above.

atleast Russians have their shiny t90m with side era extensive coverage

It ain't something that can not be done with T-90S in rather short order if the need arises. And by the way, what of your Arjun?? Those things do not have side ERA panels either, so again, I don't see how it's loss for T-90.

7.) IA T90 doesn't have laser warning system so you only know when you get hit, shitty choice anyway

Neither have the Abrams or leopards or Leclercs or the Arjun MkIs for that matter. And again, these are just plug-and-play systems, that were bought off the shelf and can be mounted on the T-90S if the Army deems them necessary. So get off your high horse already, kiddo, you are in over your head here.

8.) Fire control system of T90S is so good according to you that IA is precisely trying to replace it with a new system

I never claimed that you fucking retard!! Read before you type and post your reply!! I said they had basically the same FCS as the Arjun, developed by BEL!!
You could have saved yourself this embarrassment if you only could look at things with a dispassionate, unbiased rational mindset. But no, why would you?? Instead, you would start wailing and frothing your mouth like a retarded teenager just because someone dared to 'insult' your waifu Arjun-chan.

9.) IA is so amused by hp/tonne of T90S that it has even though about changing the engine

And again, where did I claim otherwise?? Did I not repeatedly mention Arjun's superiority in terms of mobility performance?? Dude, you are even a bigger retard than that other guy!! It's quite an achievement, really.

10.) And above all, the way IA procurement works, these Tincans will forever be Tincans going forward or atleast a part of them, floating of rfi again and again till the death of equipment, only things which seems to get approved and inducted are indigenous ones,so good luck

Same will happen to the fleet of shitcans you call Arjun, so good luck.
I know Arjun mk1a made a mistake with retention of turret and not adopting a redesigned turret with low profile and integrated aps. Took goddamn long coz IA in its all wisdom wanted to prove every upgrade before inducting. Well the way I know the other armies themselves inducts in batches with subsequent upgrades and we might have seen quicker implementation of upgrades the way IA wants if orders have been steady but nah, the search for unobtanium continues.

It's not about low profile or lack of APS, but rather those huge gaping weak spots in its armor coverage that renders it unfit for service.

The whole sections within the redlines are devoid of composite armor.
Now compare this to the T-90S -

Yeah, it's not even a contest.

Are these enough points to show how good is shitcan is,

Yep, totally. Arjun is an even worse piece of junk as compared to T-90s by most of the parameters.

bloody thing requires upgrade on every subsystem and addition of new systems, the only quantifiable upgrade on our T90 compared to T72 is that of Armor, gunners sight and FCS. The present T90S is a junk as it gets, the way it will be better is through indian systems addition and after adding so much upgrades, just how much is that Russian then, so would you agree then that what we got from Russia is basically substandard for modern warfare.

And who gives a fuck where those subsystems come from as long as we have them?? And why does it suddenly become so big of an issue for you when the vast majority of the subsystems of your Arjun is imported as well?? Hypocrisy much??
Anyway, my point is, everything being equal, T-90S will kick Arjun's ass any day of the week.

So the truth is videshi tank is literal Tincan in this age of 2020+, so stop your ranting, be objective

That's high and mighty coming from you whose only contribution so far has been making random sweeping statements. Do you even know the meaning of being objective?? I doubt that.

The best way going is with indigenous tanks

Not if it happens to a literal abomination on tracks, it won't!!

and sticking for t90 won't improve our armored capability.

Compared to Arjuns, it sure does.

Just to be clear you don't have any affiliation with IA or Russia?

Nope.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

What sort of technological challenges stop us from manufacturing APFSDS like the Israelis currently? Metallurgy?

Auto-loader limitations of the T-series tanks is one major issue. Then there is the tank barrel pressure limitations as well.

IA is currently looking at developing 650mm APFSDS capability (which I think is the max Russians are able to do for now with the autoloader limitations in place). That requires a new barrel and DRDO is working on it since around 2018 at least.

I wouldn't call DRDO APFSDS Mk2 as shitty since its unclear whether the 530+ mm RHA at 2km is at elevation angle of 0° or 30°.
From what I know, DRDO normally tests its APFSDS rounds at an elevation angle of 30°, where DoP is lower than that of 0°.

Its 0 degrees. No doubt about it. Check out the l:d ratio of the DRDO Mk2 round. And the length of its long rod.

This stupid text editor of xenforo, I can't write L without the :d turning into a dumb emoji.

 

[binayak95]

I think the Israeli import APFSDS was more than 15 years ago and is well past its expiry date by now and our War Wastage Reserves are composed of Mango emergency imports mainly but with DRDO MkII round contract having been given to OshoCorp, it will change rather fast I think.
Israeli round was to be co-produced by OFB but quality issues stopped it from happening, last I heard.

MoD massively cocked up the plan for production of israeli penetrators mated to DRDO casing.

There was a long report i had read about an entire production facility going to waste due to sheer incompetence and corruption. its a long sordid tale - alas nothing new in India.
The AK203 factory promises to be another.

 

[Chinmoy]

Rather then relying on reverse engineering . Its time to collaborate more with private player like paninian and fund them . It might bring success . Reading article seems like like they have good talent pool .

Indian start-up achieves break-through in Aero Engine design with Digital Twin

This Indian DeepTech startup has recently achieved a breakthrough in the design of State-of-the-Art

www.google.com

Specific fuel consumption of Turbojet engine is higher then Turbo-fan engine.